Minority majority MSAs in the US

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Interesting how people come at this with different perspectives based on our experiences and exposure.

I can see it a bit now but Afro-Latina isn't something I ever would have thought of on my own for AOC.

To me she looks like she has origins in the "Romance" or "Latin" nations of south-central Europe, with some admixture from the Indigenous peoples of the Americas thrown in.

Well... she does. In addition to that, she has African ancestry too.

[Crawford]

AOC looks Boricua. Which she is. White, Black and maybe a touch of Indigenous.

[Acajack]

She looks perfectly fine to me!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

And comparing the "NHW" populations of Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh illustrates how diverse "NHW" blob is. I remember being struck by how different the "white" people looked in Pittsburgh when I first visited the city in the early 1990s. There are way more "NHW"s from Eastern Europe in Pittsburgh as opposed to Cincinnati, which has, I think, just one major Greek church and experienced minimal immigration in the early 1900s from Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, etc.

that's interesting, but you're right.

according to google, the cincy area has 6 orthodox churches, but only one is specifically "greek orthodox" (the others are russian, serbian, macedonian, and two general orthodox).

pittsburgh, on the other hand, has 18 orthodox churches, 10 of which are specifically "greek orthodox".

that is quite a difference for two similarly sized metro areas.


i thought cincy had more greeks because i had been told that cincy chili was started by a greek immigrant (hence the similar flavor profile to certain greek dishes), so i assumed there were a lot of greeks there, but maybe it was just one greek dude and his family.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

And comparing the "NHW" populations of Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh illustrates how diverse "NHW" blob is. I remember being struck by how different the "white" people looked in Pittsburgh when I first visited the city in the early 1990s. There are way more "NHW"s from Eastern Europe in Pittsburgh as opposed to Cincinnati, which has, I think, just one major Greek church and experienced minimal immigration in the early 1900s from Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, etc.

Pittsburgh also has one of the biggest Italian American populations, in raw numbers and as a share of the population.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that is quite a difference for two similarly sized metro areas.

i thought cincy had more greeks because i had been told that cincy chili was started by a greek immigrant (hence the similar flavor profile to certain greek dishes), so i assumed there were a lot of greeks there, but maybe it was just one greek dude and his family.

There are a lot of not-so-subtle differences between the two oft-compared cities...one is that Pittsburgh has numerous onion-dome churches but I don't believe that Cincinnati has any.

The Cincinnati catholic population is so big that there are about 50 Roman Catholic church festivals from May-August, with numerous churches competing for festival-goers on the same weekend. The exception is the weekend of the Panegyri Greek Festival, which no Catholic church attempts to compete with (https://www.htsnchurch.org/event/panegyri/home).

I've never been able to find any online documentation of this, but many/most catholic festivals used to have something called Rat Spinning, where they'd spin a rat on a roulette wheel and you bet which hole it would scurry into when the thing stopped spinning.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

And comparing the "NHW" populations of Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh illustrates how diverse "NHW" blob is. I remember being struck by how different the "white" people looked in Pittsburgh when I first visited the city in the early 1990s. There are way more "NHW"s from Eastern Europe in Pittsburgh as opposed to Cincinnati, which has, I think, just one major Greek church and experienced minimal immigration in the early 1900s from Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine, etc.

Western PA in general is filled with people of eastern European descent.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that's interesting, but you're right.

according to google, the cincy area has 6 orthodox churches, but only one is specifically "greek orthodox" (the others are russian, serbian, macedonian, and two general orthodox).

pittsburgh, on the other hand, has 18 orthodox churches, 10 of which are specifically "greek orthodox".

that is quite a difference for two similarly sized metro areas.


i thought cincy had more greeks because i had been told that cincy chili was started by a greek immigrant (hence the similar flavor profile to certain greek dishes), so i assumed there were a lot of greeks there, but maybe it was just one greek dude and his family.

There are a ton of orthodox churches in the Pittsburgh area... that 18 number is for city limits alone? I would say Greek orthodox churches number less than Ukrainian ones specifically, and far less than eastern European and Russian orthodox churches as a whole.

Oooh, I like Cincinnati chili

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

There are a ton of orthodox churches in the Pittsburgh area... that 18 number is for city limits alone? I would say Greek orthodox churches number less than Ukrainian ones specifically, and far less than eastern European and Russian orthodox churches as a whole.

i just googled mapped "orthodox church" for the general pittsburgh area, but zooming in, and using some other terms (like "ukranian catholic"), it looks like there are FAR more than just 18 "eastern" churches in pittsburgh, it looks more like many dozens.

diving deeper, it's an even starker difference with cincy which has WAY less of that kinda stuff.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

There are a lot of not-so-subtle differences between the two oft-compared cities...one is that Pittsburgh has numerous onion-dome churches but I don't believe that Cincinnati has any.

The Cincinnati catholic population is so big that there are about 50 Roman Catholic church festivals from May-August, with numerous churches competing for festival-goers on the same weekend. The exception is the weekend of the Panegyri Greek Festival, which no Catholic church attempts to compete with (https://www.htsnchurch.org/event/panegyri/home).

I've never been able to find any online documentation of this, but many/most catholic festivals used to have something called Rat Spinning, where they'd spin a rat on a roulette wheel and you bet which hole it would scurry into when the thing stopped spinning.

Yeah, Catholic and Orthodox church festivals throughout the summer are a big thing in Pennsylvania cities as well. An excuse to go eat and drink... and yes, gamble... where the prize on the roulette wheel is usually some type of awful bottom-shelf liquor.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i just googled mapped "orthodox church" for the general pittsburgh area, but zooming in, and using some other terms (like "ukranian catholic"), it looks like there are FAR more than just 18 "eastern" churches in pittsburgh, it looks more like many dozens.

diving deeper, it's an even starker difference with cincy which has WAY less of that kinda stuff.

Yeah, they're everywhere here. Some of the old steel towns like Homestead and McKees Rocks just outside of Pittsburgh might have 3 or 4 eastern orthodox churches which are still active, and many more which have been converted to some other use.

Just in the town of Carnegie, there are scenes like this:




I would imagine Chicago has tons of this as well? Or is it more Polish Catholic, non-Orthodox, in terms of eastern European descent?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

AOC looks Boricua. Which she is. White, Black and maybe a touch of Indigenous.

Modern DNA studies have pegged the average Puerto Rican as 64% white, 21% black, and about 15% Native American.

I would hazard a guess that AOC is a bit whiter than that however, due to her dead straight hair.

FWIW, this was what Lin-Manuel Miranda posted was his own admixture, since he's another very "white-looking" Puerto Rican.



More Native American than average, but still about 10% black ancestry, even though it's not visible at all in terms of his phenotype.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I would imagine Chicago has tons of this as well? Or is it more Polish Catholic, non-Orthodox, in terms of eastern European descent?

Well, the poles are the single largest group of eastern Europeans in Chicago by far, and they are predominately roman catholic, but we also have plenty of "Orthodox" eastern europeans too, especially Greeks.

I went to one of the more prestigious Catholic college prep high schools in Chicago, and I had a lot of Greek orthodox classmates who went there as well because "at least it's still christian, and it has one of the best reputations".

[eschaton]

The interesting thing about Pittsburgh isn't just the number of Eastern Europeans, it's the sheer variety.

I mean, you can find Polish people anywhere from New England to Wisconsin. But Pittsburgh has lots of Hungarians, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Croatians, Slovenes, and Serbs. It's like there was a direct tunnel from the Austro-Hungarian Empire to the city circa 1900.

The other "white ethnic" groups here are the pretty normal mix (Italians, Germans, Irish, Jews, Greeks to a lesser extent, etc.).

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The interesting thing about Pittsburgh isn't just the number of Eastern Europeans, it's the sheer variety.

I mean, you can find Polish people anywhere from New England to Wisconsin. But Pittsburgh has lots of Hungarians, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Croatians, Slovenes, and Serbs. It's like there was a direct tunnel from the Austro-Hungarian Empire to the city circa 1900.

The other "white ethnic" groups here are the pretty normal mix (Italians, Germans, Irish, Jews, Greeks to a lesser extent, etc.).

The mines and mills brought all those "hunkies" here!

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The mines and mills brought all those "hunkies" here!

Well, yeah, but there were mines/mills lots of places that didn't get them.

And to be clear, you can find them elsewhere too (Cleveland has a lot of random Slavic groups as well) but it's one of the more unique aspects of local "White Ethnic" culture - the same way that the big French Canadian and Portuguese influence is unique to New England.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The mines and mills brought all those "hunkies" here!

same mix for cleveland -- and as for those cle mill hungarians -- i am one of them -- we even had hungarian boy scouts and i did that briefly as a kid!

i am now the only hungarian on staten island


http://www.clevelandstyle.com/take~a~tour.html

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Modern DNA studies have pegged the average Puerto Rican as 64% white, 21% black, and about 15% Native American.

I would hazard a guess that AOC is a bit whiter than that however, due to her dead straight hair.

Assuming she doesn't straighten it or doesn't have frizzy hair days.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Assuming she doesn't straighten it or doesn't have frizzy hair days.

Eh, I've seen pictures of her as a kid, and she had the same hair.

[iheartthed]

AOC's hair texture could have easily come from her indigenous ancestors, so I don't think that's evidence that she is "whiter" than average.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i thought cincy had more greeks because i had been told that cincy chili was started by a greek immigrant (hence the similar flavor profile to certain greek dishes), so i assumed there were a lot of greeks there, but maybe it was just one greek dude and his family.

Three families, really: The Kiradjieffs (Empress) and the Katsamakis and Lambrinides (Skyline).

Gold Star was started by the Daouds (Jordanian). Who knows

But that's always been the thing: The city's most-famous food is a variation of a Greek/Macedonian dish despite a practically nonexistent Greek population.

Then there's goetta. I grew up German Catholic, like most of Cincinnati (frequent attendee of both the St. Rita's and St. Veronica's summer festivals), but I've never liked it. Never heard of rat spinning, but wouldn't be surprised if that was a thing that stopped being popular by the 1980s and 1990s.