Minority majority MSAs in the US

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Docere

Vienna ca. 1900 was filled with Czechs, Hungarians and others from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, even though those residents quickly "Germanized." However it influenced things like cuisine. And many Viennese are descended from various ethnic groups, not just "pure" Germans.

Identity and ethnicity is complex.

Cities were always cosmopolitan, but until the modern era, cities had both high death rates and low birth rates, meaning few urban dwellers left descendants in the long run, with cities continually replenished from the rural peasantry.

Like, we've sequenced the DNA of ancient urban Romans, and it's not really much like modern Italians, being much more influenced by Greek and Near Eastern ancestry. Modern Italians are genetically identical to rural Roman peasants though.

[Docere]

Given that it was the capital of a multi-ethnic nation where Germans were a minority, that makes sense. When I think of the term "Central Europe" it's the Austro-Hungarian empire that first comes to mind.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But yes, Austria feels more eastern-central European that Germany most of which is resolutely western.

vienna is only 35 miles from bratislava.

that's roughly the same distance as me going from my city neighborhood up to my sister's house out in the burbs.

are the suburban peoples of Lake County, IL their own ethnic group now?

the cheeseheads just north of them on the other side of the cheddar curtain certainly are.

[Crawford]

Yeah, Vienna feels nothing like a German city, really. Feels like a richer Prague or Budapest.

Austria-Germany is often compared to Anglosphere Canada-US but I feel the analogy doesn't really hold.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, Vienna feels nothing like a German city, really. Feels like a richer Prague or Budapest.

Austria-Germany is often compared to Anglosphere Canada-US but I feel the analogy doesn't really hold.

Maybe it's more like UK-US. Austrians seem a bit "colder" than Germans, who are not really known for being warm themselves. Similar to how the British are stereotyped to be more reserved than Americans.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Maybe it's more like UK-US. Austrians seem a bit "colder" than Germans, who are not really known for being warm themselves. Similar to how the British are stereotyped to be more reserved than Americans.

That's a pretty dated stereotype though. I always imagined them as buttoned up compared to us...until I went over there.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by JManc

That's a pretty dated stereotype though. I always imagined them as buttoned up compared to us...until I went over there.

American stereotypes of the British are basically entirely based upon the upper/upper middle class. Working-class British people aren't even part of the U.S. consciousness. Which may make a certain amount of sense, considering the idea of class being important is kind of anathema to Americans.

[Docere]

That's very true, Americans seem to see the English as upper class. Masterpiece Theatre and so on. England is high brow culture. Working class English don't seem to exist. Historically the American WASP establishment was associated with anglophilia. The Espicopalian Church (Anglicans) was the "establishment" church.

Even the weird and incorrect line that white Southerners are actually of the "Scotch-Irish" ethnic group is based on this. English = patricians, Scots = Braveheart.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Docere

Even the weird and incorrect line that white Southerners are actually of the "Scotch-Irish" ethnic group is based on this. English = patricians, Scots = Braveheart.

You left out one part:

English = patricians, Scots = Braveheart, Irish = drunk & dirty

[JManc]

Originally Posted by eschaton

American stereotypes of the British are basically entirely based upon the upper/upper middle class. Working-class British people aren't even part of the U.S. consciousness. Which may make a certain amount of sense, considering the idea of class being important is kind of anathema to Americans.

The internet and mass media since the 90's or so has exposed the more colorful side of the British. Plus anyone familiar with the punk scene have long known the Brits can be a wild bunch.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

That's a pretty dated stereotype though. I always imagined them as buttoned up compared to us...until I went over there.

I agree that the stereotype isn't exactly the full picture. At least as I understood it before I spent time in the UK. But... I think, in general, Brits are slower to engage strangers than Americans and that's what makes them come across as being "cold". Americans generally read it as impolite not to engage everyone at a certain level upon meeting, while British might read it just the opposite. It's like there's a step in there that doesn't exist in American culture but does in British culture. I feel that Austrians are similar in that it almost seems impolite if you're overly friendly without knowing them.

[Yuri]

To me, one of the most interesting social traits of British is their "polite insincerity". Brazilians are very similar in this regard. They will tell small lies all the time to make the situation more confortable and light. People don't even mentally process those lies.

Italians and French, on the other hand, are very straightforward and the perception is their are unnecessarily abrupt and rude.

[Docere]

Vienna 1900:

German yet multicultural, 1 out of 4 were born in the Czech lands (Bohemia and Moravia).

https://homepage.univie.ac.at/ruedig...-diversity.htm

Vienna's population of course declined after WWI and a lot moved to Czechoslovakia and Hungary - so not sure how many Viennese today have roots in neighboring nations.

[Steely Dan]

^ Docere, do you have good stats on greek ancestry in US metro areas?

i found this list on wikipedia, but it's far from complete, and tampa at #6 seems a little odd at first glance, but who knows?

is tampa really #6? ahead of the more conventional northern US european immigration centers?


Top MSA's by Greek Ancestry:

1. New York: 169,341
2. Chicago: 94,796
3. Boston: 67,382
4. Los Angeles: 42,552
5. Philadelphia: 31,612
6. Tampa: 24,173


as i mentioned earlier in the thread, i went to high school with a lot of sons and grandsons of greek immigrants.

they were 2nd only to poles among eastern-europeans at my school, so chicago's high placement on the the list above comes as no surprise to me.

[Docere]

It sounds correct. Tarpon Springs, Florida is probably the most Greek place in the US.

[pj3000]

Doesn’t Detroit have a large Greek population?

[Steely Dan]

^ Detroit was one of those "usual suspects" I was expecting to see ahead of Tampa.

But it does look like tampa has a lot of Greeks. Looking into Tarpon Springs, it was once the center of the US natural sponge industry and lots of Greek sponge divers came there to work back in the day, and today it is the most Greek municipality in the nation by far.

That's why I love threads like this, I always end up learning about quirky aspects of history that I had no idea of. I would never have guessed that there was a small gulf coast city in Florida with a large legacy Greek community. Who knew?

[Docere]

Tampa Bay has a more interesting immigration history than one would think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ybor_City

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

That's why I love threads like this, I always end up learning about quirky aspects of history that I had no idea of. I would never have guessed that there was a small gulf coast city in Florida with a large legacy Greek community. Who knew?

Thanks for starting it. From the Slovaks and Ukrainians in Pittsburgh to the Armenians in Poland to what is a German to the Greek community in Tarpon Springs - best thread-drift ever.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Doesn’t Detroit have a large Greek population?

i'm going back to this because i'm really curious about greek immigration/ancestry in America. i really thought detroit had a large greek community too.

i'm having trouble tracking down numbers comparing metro detroit apples-to-apples with other metros on its greek community, but i did find this one indicator:

greek orthodox churches in chicagoland: 20

greek orthodox churches in metro detroit: 13


so that leads me to believe that metro detroit has a substantial greek community, perhaps not as large as chicago's, but quite significant none-the-less.

If Chicagoland averages 4,750 Greeks per Greek orthodox church, maybe we could ballpark metro Detroit's Greek population at around 60K.