HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #7421  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:34 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
The issue with converting general seating to premium is that its essentially net zero in winnipegs case. if you cannabilze 500 general lower bowl seats to create 330 premium seats you would have to price them astronomically high to improve your business model by a gate standard alone, then factor the losses of 170 patrons concession dollars you might be worse off.
You are making an assumption here without any actual proof. You really don't know how many seats would be removed and how many premium seats would replace them. I already mentioned the Jets could add in a few hundred additional sky seating/suites like Vancouver or Milwaukee in their new arena without losing any additional seating. Vancouver charges a few hundred dollars per game for those seats by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
I think the overall issue is how Canada Life stacks up to other arenas long term not today. For example where they fall on the building revenue chart.

lets say edmonton,newyork,montreal,toronto and Chicago are top 5 in no order. Winnipeg most likely sits around 23rd-27th as of today. So we could expect Winnipeg to sit probably right below the average in terms of gate and concession revenue. Still profitable but what happens when the league starts collectively renovating to todays standards and continues to build new arenas and CLC doesn't have the ability to follow those trends? In 2011 NHL arenas were basically still uniformly seats, luxery boxes and more seats. That is changing rapidly and as these new buildings continue to be built the pressure on the older buildings to renovate or replace gets greater because the average revenue goes up which effects your cap. So to stand still on these changes long term isn't an option club seating is becoming king.
Any examples of this "renovating to today's standards" compared to 10 years ago? There isn't that much difference from what I can see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
And that's what makes CLC so difficult. It's still so new that in 10 years the thought of replacement is hard to imagine in Canada. The cap in 2011 was just under 65M today its 85M. It's only a matter of time until the salary cap outstrips the revenue potential of CLC in its current form. Ticket prices can only go up so far if anything True North has regressed from the top price Winnipeg is willing to pay to catch an NHL game.
After the lockout in 2005, Bettman and the BOG were predicting the cap would have increased to $120 million by this point, but a couple things happened along the way.
1) The Canadian dollar dropped from par to below .80 US since the end of 2014 and has remained there.
2) COVID hit and did a number on the NHL's revenues
3) there are markets that have continued to underperform with respect to revenues the past decade
4) the US national tv deals (both the previous one and the current one) have not been as lucrative as some have hoped.

AND a 5th factor which will negatively effect the NHL's revenues and cap in the immediate future - the collapse of several US NHL teams regional tv deals due to the bankruptcy of the Diamond Sports Group. It also means we may see several more seasons of a nearly static cap.

Meanwhile a team like the Jets has a healthy regional tv deal while those affected teams are left scrambling looking for sort of additional tv deal which almost certainly will not approach their previous deals.

An increase of $65 million to actually $83 million (for next year) in a decade is not particularly impressive or unsustainable for an lower income franchise. That works out to less than 2 million a year.

I would also add, that while the NHL is more gate-dependent than the other big-3 pro leagues in North America, it is far less so than it was 12 years ago. Back then, over 50% of each team's revenues accrued from gate/concessions and merchandise. That number has fallen substantially over the past decade plus due to the new tv regional tv deals (the collapse of the regional tv deals in the US notswithstanding), new national tv deals in Canada and the US, streaming deals, new national and international corporate sponsorships.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7422  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:41 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
You cant really do that if you look at an Arial of CLC those out walls are on the very edge of the arena itself. Unless you built some kind of cantilever structure on the side of the building but then how do you access them ect. would be a cool idea for additional 300 loge seats. knock down those walls and build a 5 foot platform around the arena but i think theirs lower hanging fruit in the press box level.
They can build sky suites/club seats above and/or below the rafters on the west side similar to the 2 level press box on the east side.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7423  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:43 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Canada Life Centre's square footage is nearly identical to Vancouver's arena with 3500 fewer seats yet apparently we don't have enough room to add premium seating options so we need to build a new arena.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7424  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:49 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
They can build sky suites/club seats above and/or below the rafters on the west side similar to the 2 level press box on the east side.
That alone seems like a pretty big untapped reserve of CLC seating. Between that and what drew was getting at (even if it's only possible to build a partial ring of suites at the top), that's a fair bit of expansion capacity if and when the need arises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Canada Life Centre's square footage is nearly identical to Vancouver's arena with 3500 fewer seats yet apparently we don't have enough room to add premium seating options so we need to build a new arena.
Is it really nearly identical? I was in there not too long ago and the interior volume of the arena bowl at Rogers Arena seems way bigger than CLC.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7425  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 9:57 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
That alone seems like a pretty big untapped reserve of CLC seating. Between that and what drew was getting at (even if it's only possible to build a partial ring of suites at the top), that's a fair bit of expansion capacity if and when the need arises.



Is it really nearly identical? I was in there not too long ago and the interior volume of the arena bowl at Rogers Arena seems way bigger than CLC.
The square footage counts everything from the rows people sit in, to the locker rooms, media areas, club areas, concession areas, offices, etc. Vancouver's arena is extremely tight stuck between two viaducts so the areas behind the stands are extremely cramped, probably more so than Canada Life Centre. I remember seeing the total square footage for Rogers Arena and it was shockingly small...something like 450,000 square feet. Edmonton's new arena has something like 850,000 square feet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7426  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:22 PM
Oilkountry's Avatar
Oilkountry Oilkountry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
You are making an assumption here without any actual proof. You really don't know how many seats would be removed and how many premium seats would replace them. I already mentioned the Jets could add in a few hundred additional sky seating/suites like Vancouver or Milwaukee in their new arena without losing any additional seating. Vancouver charges a few hundred dollars per game for those seats by the way.

Any examples of this "renovating to today's standards" compared to 10 years ago? There isn't that much difference from what I can see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
They can build sky suites/club seats above and/or below the rafters on the west side similar to the 2 level press box on the east side.
Not sure why youre hitting back with such a passive aggressive response.

I can tell you the premium seating at rogers place is at least 30% bigger compared to CLC's general seats. So my math was based on 30-35% bigger seats. Which would in theory kill 150-175 seats for every 500 reconfigured to premium. I might be out 5-10% give or take. But for the jets to break even they would have to raise prices at least 30-35% to cover what they lost in additional seating, plus the potential concession money of the lost patrons so 45% increase just turn a small profit sounds reasonable unless you can debunk that?

I've not only agreed with you on the sky suites/loge seats that match the press box but have been preaching them for years on this thread. And just an hour ago explained how to create access to them while converting low demand seats into club seating. Were not disagreeing on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Canada Life Centre's square footage is nearly identical to Vancouver's arena with 3500 fewer seats yet apparently we don't have enough room to add premium seating options so we need to build a new arena.
That's such a cheap argument. We both know the ceiling height at CLC makes adding seats at Canada life infinitely more challenging than rogers arena. Probably the most comparable buildings in the NHL but the 40 extra feet from seats to rafters rogers arena has makes adding seats and boxes much easier. the seating they have added over the years don't even effect the 300's veiw
__________________
I don't want to hear your opinions on facts
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7427  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:27 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
The square footage counts everything from the rows people sit in, to the locker rooms, media areas, club areas, concession areas, offices, etc. Vancouver's arena is extremely tight stuck between two viaducts so the areas behind the stands are extremely cramped, probably more so than Canada Life Centre. I remember seeing the total square footage for Rogers Arena and it was shockingly small...something like 450,000 square feet. Edmonton's new arena has something like 850,000 square feet.
Yeah, the concourse in Rogers Arena felt extremely cramped. Normally during intermissions I like to do a lap around the concourse just to see things and stretch my legs. That's never a challenge at CLC, but I couldn't even get 1/4 of the way around the upper bowl at Rogers Arena before giving up and turning back. It was so crammed that I couldn't get through. It reminded me of IG Field when there's a sellout
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7428  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:32 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is offline
ハルウララ
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Yeah, the concourse in Rogers Arena felt extremely cramped. Normally during intermissions I like to do a lap around the concourse just to see things and stretch my legs. That's never a challenge at CLC, but I couldn't even get 1/4 of the way around the upper bowl at Rogers Arena before giving up and turning back. It was so crammed that I couldn't get through. It reminded me of IG Field when there's a sellout
Trying doing a concourse walk in Peterborough! It's like five different buildings built in different decades with no cohesion

It was very cool walking around the upper concourse of the Colisee in Quebec City. That was a steep pitch up top. I know the Bell Centre has similar concourse issues to what Rogers Arena has.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7429  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:34 PM
Oilkountry's Avatar
Oilkountry Oilkountry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,860
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Yeah, the concourse in Rogers Arena felt extremely cramped. Normally during intermissions I like to do a lap around the concourse just to see things and stretch my legs. That's never a challenge at CLC, but I couldn't even get 1/4 of the way around the upper bowl at Rogers Arena before giving up and turning back. It was so crammed that I couldn't get through. It reminded me of IG Field when there's a sellout
rogers place is 1.1m sq ft
CLC 450,000sq ft
Rogers arena 475,000 sq ft

That's actually wild although rogers place has ford hall which im sure chews up 300,000 of it. Its still crazy to think its basically double the size. rogers arena has gotten alot better since they added those towers. major increase on all levels in terms of concourse space. Still gotta get skinny in some areas
__________________
I don't want to hear your opinions on facts
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7430  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:56 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Trying doing a concourse walk in Peterborough! It's like five different buildings built in different decades with no cohesion

It was very cool walking around the upper concourse of the Colisee in Quebec City. That was a steep pitch up top. I know the Bell Centre has similar concourse issues to what Rogers Arena has.
I'd love to visit some of those classic OHL barns like Peterborough! I've only been to a few OHL arenas, though.

I remember attending like the third or fourth game ever at Bell Centre and finding it extremely congested. It always seemed to me like a building that would have been very comfortable with 18,000 seats, but they went ahead and crammed 22,000 in there making it very cramped.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7431  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2023, 10:58 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
rogers place is 1.1m sq ft
CLC 450,000sq ft
Rogers arena 475,000 sq ft

That's actually wild although rogers place has ford hall which im sure chews up 300,000 of it. Its still crazy to think its basically double the size. rogers arena has gotten alot better since they added those towers. major increase on all levels in terms of concourse space. Still gotta get skinny in some areas
Rogers place varies depending on whether you include the Winter Garden/pedway area which increases square footage to the 1.1 million you typed in. Even without that plus the ford hall or whatever it will still be well over 800,000 in the arena. Lots of room...although I have read plenty of complaints from Oiler fans on the HFboards saying the upper deck at the new arena is absolutely atrocious with regards to walkway space, lack of concessions/washrooms. I guess it's not just how much space you have, it's also how it is allocated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7432  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 6:28 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,890
A new stadium for CF Montreal? (Translated)
The Dilemma of Joey Saputo
Jeremy Filosa 98.5 Sports March 8, 2023

Ten days before CF Montreal's first home game of the 2023 season, team president Gabriel Gervais opened the door to a possible move for the Impact to a brand new stadium.

Gervais slipped this information to colleague Olivier Brett during a recent interview. This thinking is not new to CF Montreal and its owner Joey Saputo.

98.5 FM had published a text a year ago on the list of possible improvements that we wanted to make to Stade Saputo.

As explained in the text of yesteryear, the club is a tenant of Stade Saputo. It is bound to this agreement via an emphyteutic lease. This means that even if Saputo wishes to inject nearly $100 million into a stadium that does not belong to him, it absolutely must obtain the approval of the Olympic Park and the city.

According to our information, Saputo would have no objection to taking the $100 million out of its own pocket. In return, he would like a freeze on his property taxes, an element that has been hanging over the offices of Mayor Valérie Plante for five years.

Here are the options available to Joey Saputo.

Stay on site

It goes without saying that if the club really wants to try to maintain current Major League Soccer standards, major improvements are needed at Stade Saputo. The survival of the franchise depends on it.

It also goes without saying that if Saputo wishes to proceed without obtaining its tax freeze, the city will not oppose it. He can proceed as he wishes, but every time he wants to make changes, he will always face this same problem.

Let's face it, in order to save money on the field - which still belongs to the Olympic Park -, Joey Saputo has embarked on an agreement that does not make him the only master on board.

If he had to do it again today, he would probably proceed in a very different way.

At first glance, Stade Saputo was not designed with the intention of being able to improve to today's standards. If Joey Saputo wanted, for example, to install a roof, it would be impossible for him to do so. There are also constraints in terms of electricity, plumbing and the foundations of the stadium.

At this time, it would not even be possible to make room for the Montreal Alouettes, since the playing surface is too small, inadequate and several seats would have to be sacrificed.

Leave for another stadium

In an ideal world, CF Montreal would probably move to a new state-of-the-art stadium. An ultra-modern stadium that can be compared to the new MLS stadiums that we see today.

But we would be talking about major investments here. Is he ready to do this?

The other two Canadian MLS teams (in Toronto and Vancouver) share their stadium with the Canadian Football League team. Same thing for the majority of CPL teams.

If Pierre-Karl Péladeau buys the Alouettes, would he be ready to work hand in hand with Saputo for this type of project? I have my doubts about the chemistry that might exist between the two men, but ideally that would be the best idea.

The Alouettes also need a new stadium and building two would make no sense.

If you look at today's stadium construction projects, the majority of them are erected in poles of attraction, where there is also shopping, restaurants and all kinds of other activities. This is far from the case at the corner of Sherbrooke Street and Viau Boulevard.

It would also leave an empty Stade Saputo, without a tenant, next to another large stadium, which has also been largely abandoned, the Olympic Stadium. That would be the height of ridiculous...

Past mistakes cost dearly

Of the major North American cities, Montreal has long been the laughingstock in terms of professional sports infrastructure, especially stadiums.

Since the hasty construction of the Olympic Stadium, the extra time needed to complete it, the saga of the roof that has not worked since day one, this stadium has made us crowned several times.

A stadium that cost way, way too much, that in any other city in North America would have been demolished by now. A stadium that was never adequate for the Expos, locked up like a cave, with bleachers too far from the game.

Percival Molson Stadium is the oldest stadium used by a professional club, apart from Fenway Park (Boston Red Sox) and Wrigley Field (Chicago Cubs), which have since been massively renovated. When you look at modern stadiums in the CFL and elsewhere in other leagues, you die of envy.

And then, Stade Saputo, not designed 15 years ago for the rapid evolution of MLS, is located on land that does not belong to the owner and whose agreement is proving to be an impossible puzzle to solve. .

Unfortunately, all these stadium problems all start from the same problem, the primary desire to save costs and limit expenses.

Obviously, when we turn corners, it always ends up catching up with us. Hopefully the mistakes of the past will serve as notes for the future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7433  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2023, 6:55 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,890
An improved Saputo Stadium would cost between $75M and $100M (Translated)
Jeremy Filosa 98.5 Sports March 3, 2022

Over the past five years, no less than nine new stadiums have been erected in MLS, each one always newer and more modern than the last. The further you go, the more the stadiums of the Garber circuit are expensive and luxurious.

This means that Stade Saputo, which was built in 2008 and improved in 2012, is already starting to struggle. Once again this year, the same problem occurs, we still have to start the season at Olympic Stadium, because Stade Saputo is still not ready for winter.

Owner Joey Saputo is well aware of the problem and has been trying for several years to remedy this situation. In the long term, it will not be viable for CF Montreal to continue to compete with other MLS teams if the club continues to play in Stade Saputo, in its current state.

According to our information, Saputo worked with the Populous and Espace Construction firms to create sketches that show Stade Saputo with all the improvements.

The first was made in 2017, then an improved version dates from a few years ago. The club also surveyed more than 1,000 fans last fall to find out what improvements they would like to see made at Stade Saputo.

Increase revenue

The first major change was to add the number of premium tickets to the stadium. So we were going to destroy the northern section of the stadium, from the press gallery (Sherbrooke Street) upwards. It was planned to raise four floors of luxury glass boxes, a section that we wanted to call the "club" section.

In these sections, a ticket can sell for a few hundred dollars, which is much more than a regular ticket.

In most MLS stadiums, 15% of the tickets are premium value, which is where most of the profit is. The wealthiest teams collect around 50% to 70% of their income via these tickets.

Right now, at Saputo Stadium, only 6% of seats are considered premium. A clear delay compared to the other stadiums of the league. CF Montreal would rather target 12% to 14% of premium seats.

In recent years, some tickets, such as those in the BMO Lounge sections, have been upgraded to premium, but we're only talking about a few hundred tickets here.

According to our information, some at the Olympic Park would not be enthusiastic about the idea of ​​seeing a structure come to partially hide the tower of the Olympic Stadium.

In addition to the club section, the intention was to move the players' entrance to the field to the center of the north section, and no longer to the northwest corner. Premium sections around this access were also planned.

There is also work to be done all around the stadium to increase electrical capacity, add food concessions, terraces and bathrooms. Not to mention the improvement of the two entrances to the stadium.

Ideas that have been abandoned

A major problem for Joey Saputo is that his stadium is only used 18 to 20 times per season. To make it profitable, the club thought of holding other events there. At one point, there was even talk of inviting the Alouettes to play their games there.

But it would have been necessary to replace the benches closest to the field with removable seats, because currently the field is not large enough to accommodate a CFL club. There is also the problem of the natural ground which would take for its cold if a football team settled there.

So if it's not football, then you have to find other events. Concerts would also be difficult to organize.

Saputo also considered extending the roof of the stadium in order to cover all the seats. But according to our information, the structure is not able to support the weight necessary for this, and the garage located directly under the stadium would also prevent it. At best, we could cover only the north platform.

When will the Stadium be winterized?

As mentioned above, unlike Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton, for example, Stade Saputo is not designed for winter.

Replacing the playing surface with a heated pitch isn't the biggest challenge, but it's a problem that's pointless to fix if the rest isn't done.

What's the point of having a heated surface if the rest of the stadium is unusable. Remember that the plumbing is not functional during the winter and the benches are not designed to be used on cold days either. They may also need to be replaced. Everything must be done to make it usable.

So, for now, no pun intended, the winterization of the stadium remains on the ice.

Why not proceed now?

According to our information, we are talking here about a total project of between $75 million and $100 million. An amount that the Saputo family would be ready to pay 100%, without asking for government assistance. Which is quite rare.

To date, Stade Saputo has cost a total of $63 million, of which $40 million has been paid by the Saputos and $23 million by taxpayers.

On the other hand, the big boss of CF Montreal has never hidden his dismay vis-à-vis the taxes he must pay annually on the structure. Not to be confused, we are talking here about property taxes and not taxes.

98.5 Sports was present at the Municipal Court of Montreal in 2019 when the lawyers of the Impact and those of the City of Montreal shook hands following an agreement in relation to previous taxes.

It was a small victory for Joey, but in reality he only gained points with Center Nutrilait, and not much with Stade Saputo. He earned nothing on the taxes that would have to be paid in subsequent years.

A contract that no longer works

What is special is that Saputo must pay property taxes on a stadium that does not belong to him. When he had the stadium built on the grounds of the Olympic Park, he signed a 40-year emphyteutic lease, of which the first 14 years are behind us.

In this type of agreement, it is the tenant who pays the annual taxes and all other related taxes. When it was first designed, the Stadium was just a field with bleachers around it. It must be said that before the construction of the stadium, the empty lot at the corner of Sherbrooke and Viau did not generate a penny.

Over the years, Saputo continued to inject funds and the amphitheater became a stadium, and grew in value. It goes without saying that the tax bill has also increased. And if Saputo proceeds with these improvements again, it risks having to pay approximately $2 million to $4 million more annually.

If Saputo sells the team, it will not be able to go through with the transaction, with the aim of reimbursing itself. The Stadium will continue to belong to the Olympic Park despite a massive injection of funds from it. So what to do?

Could Saputo go to court to try to put an end to the agreement? Hard to say, emphyteutic leases are not easy to break.

According to our information, in 2004, when the Uniprix Stadium (now IGA) was renovated, it was also the subject of a long lease. But finally, an agreement with the City of Montreal was reached, allowing the work to take place.

Is there such a solution in the maps for Saputo? Let's hope so, because the fate of the franchise depends on it. Without an agreement, there is little chance that the work will go ahead.

During a press briefing last week, Commissioner Don Garber reacted to the works which must be started and which have not yet been .

“Several pitfalls stand in front of him (Saputo). Its agreement for its stadium is unique and practically prevents it from investing more money there to continue to offer fans the most modern experience. I know Joey wants to proceed and he's very frustrated. But we limit him in what he can do, it must still remain logical and rational financially.

He nevertheless wanted to reiterate that, in his opinion, Joey Saputo remained his trusted man here in Montreal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7434  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 1:32 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Rogers place varies depending on whether you include the Winter Garden/pedway area which increases square footage to the 1.1 million you typed in. Even without that plus the ford hall or whatever it will still be well over 800,000 in the arena. Lots of room...although I have read plenty of complaints from Oiler fans on the HFboards saying the upper deck at the new arena is absolutely atrocious with regards to walkway space, lack of concessions/washrooms. I guess it's not just how much space you have, it's also how it is allocated.
Do any of those figures include the practice rink?

Unrelated, I had no idea that the Kraken's arena had two jumbotrons. Pretty cool.


https://www.athleticbusiness.com/fac...y-efficiencies

Even cooler, you can see the rink from outside (the cheapest seats!) and outside from the rink!


https://www.ginohard.com/photos-seat...-pledge-arena/


https://twitter.com/Alyssacharlston/...98224387284998
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7435  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 6:51 PM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canmore, AB
Posts: 66,805
Just took in my first Kraken game at Climate Pledge at it was quite nice. It was odd having the second level at-grade and that concourse along the west side made Rogers look expansive on the second level. The washroom and drink lineups were about the same, but I'd give the edge to Rogers. I did not love the giant elevated walkway above us in our field of view though.





__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7436  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 1:32 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,011
I went into a bit of a NHL Arena rabbit hole a couple weeks ago. I found three distinct periods of new arena construction. These lists are incomplete.

1924-1931, the Original Six. Essentially the roaring 20s in an era of NHL expansion, just before the Great Depression.

Montreal Forum (1924)
Madison Square Garden III (1925)
Olympia Stadium (1927)
Boston Garden (1928)
Chicago Stadium (1929)
Maple Leaf Garden (1931)

1961-1979, throwing a wider net here which includes some expansion teams from 67' onwards along with the first new arenas of Original Six teams.

Pittsburgh Civic Centre (1961), pre-dates the Penguins, but inspires their name.
The Spectrum (1967)
The Forum (1967)
Pacific Coliseum (1967)
Madison Square Garden 1V (1968)
Capital Centre (1973), very similar to the Saddledome
Jos Louis Arena (1979)

1996-2001, the modern era.

Honda Center, SAP Center, (1993)
Enterprise Center, United Center (1994)
Rogers Arena, TD Garden (1995)
Amalia Arena, Molson Centre, Corel Centre, Bridgestone Arena, KeyBank Centre, Wells Fargo (1996)
Capital One (1997)
FLA (1998)
Pepsi, Staples, PNC, ACC (1999)
Nationwide, Xcel (2000)
American Airlines (2004).

Since then, a new arena has been built every few years.

Side note as an Ottawa guy, the original Senators built a new arena during that first boom, the Ottawa Auditorium, in 1924. With a capacity of 10k, it was in line with the Forum (9,300) and Maple Leaf Garden (12,400), but smaller than it's American counterparts. In 1931, the team moved to St. Louis, where they played for one year before folding. When St. Louis won an expansion team in 1967, the Blues played at that same arena until 1994 (so an Original Six era arena). 1967 was the year the Ottawa Auditorium was replaced by the Ottawa Civic Centre, which hosted the new NHL Senators from the October 1992 to January 1996.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7437  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 1:38 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 68,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I went into a bit of a NHL Arena rabbit hole a couple weeks ago. I found three distinct periods of new arena construction. These lists are incomplete.

1924-1931, the Original Six. Essentially the roaring 20s in an era of NHL expansion, just before the Great Depression.

Montreal Forum (1924)
Madison Square Garden III (1925)
Olympia Stadium (1927)
Boston Garden (1928)
Chicago Stadium (1929)
Maple Leaf Garden (1931)

1961-1979, throwing a wider net here which includes some expansion teams from 67' onwards along with the first new arenas of Original Six teams.

Pittsburgh Civic Centre (1961), pre-dates the Penguins, but inspires their name.
The Spectrum (1967)
The Forum (1967)
Pacific Coliseum (1967)
Madison Square Garden 1V (1968)
Capital Centre (1973), very similar to the Saddledome
Jos Louis Arena (1979)

1996-2001, the modern era.

Honda Center, SAP Center, (1993)
Enterprise Center, United Center (1994)
Rogers Arena, TD Garden (1995)
Amalia Arena, Molson Centre, Corel Centre, Bridgestone Arena, KeyBank Centre, Wells Fargo (1996)
Capital One (1997)
FLA (1998)
Pepsi, Staples, PNC, ACC (1999)
Nationwide, Xcel (2000)
American Airlines (2004).

Since then, a new arena has been built every few years.

Side note as an Ottawa guy, the original Senators built a new arena during that first boom, the Ottawa Auditorium, in 1924. With a capacity of 10k, it was in line with the Forum (9,300) and Maple Leaf Garden (12,400), but smaller than it's American counterparts. In 1931, the team moved to St. Louis, where they played for one year before folding. When St. Louis won an expansion team in 1967, the Blues played at that same arena until 1994 (so an Original Six era arena). 1967 was the year the Ottawa Auditorium was replaced by the Ottawa Civic Centre, which hosted the new NHL Senators from the October 1992 to January 1996.
Largely forgotten now, but the Checkerdome in St Louis was a pretty neat-looking arena:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chec...enCA1031CA1031
__________________
The Last Word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7438  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 2:42 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Largely forgotten now, but the Checkerdome in St Louis was a pretty neat-looking arena:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chec...enCA1031CA1031
And it looked absolutely massive for that era. Towards the end though, it looked run down compared to the other Original Six era arenas.

Another thing that's interesting is how long those first true NHL arenas were used. With the exception of MSG III and Olympia, most Original Six barns were used for around 70 years. The expansion era arenas were active for about 30 to 40 years. The 90s era arenas pushing 30 are mostly still active with no replacement in sight (with the exception of the CTC in Ottawa, due to location).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7439  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:18 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
I loved those 60s arenas. Back when the arena still had some aspirations to a civic purpose, rather than the very corporate, accountant-inspired quasi shopping malls we have now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7440  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 4:22 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Largely forgotten now, but the Checkerdome in St Louis was a pretty neat-looking arena:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chec...enCA1031CA1031
Yeah, wow. Shades of the Hagia Sophia!



Interestingly, it looks like those towers got clipped somewhere along the way.

Last edited by esquire; Mar 21, 2023 at 4:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:12 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.