HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:04 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by RST500 View Post
California's transient nature makes it difficult to build long term social capital and inter-generational wealthy. The population arrangement acts as a safety valve: if you don't like it here you leave rather than push for change and no incentive to make it easier to raise families here.

It also creates a divide between a wealthy landed gerontocracy and class of immigrants renters and workers, including many illegal immigrants in low wage service jobs and h1bs.
NIMBY restriction only exacerbate these trends and could lead to a California where only 10% of the youth population is Euro descended and even worse inequality by the end of the Century.
Pretty sure that H1b visa holders are disproportionately buying property in California compared to U.S. citizens. If you include people who were formerly h1b visa holders, that probably jumps substantially.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:06 PM
urban_encounter's Avatar
urban_encounter urban_encounter is offline
“The Big EasyChair”
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 🌳🌴🌲 Sacramento 🌳 🌴🌲
Posts: 5,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This entire thread is alt-right fakenews. The reality is that CA is #3 or #4 in population growth.

__________________
“The best friend on earth of man is the tree. When we use the tree respectfully and economically, we have one of the greatest resources on the earth.” – Frank Lloyd Wright
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:26 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is offline
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleonzo View Post
I agree with you Jtown....this should be an open forum for free expression and discourse even if differing opinions can’t agree. It’s amazing how some people who think they’re the most “tolerant” are in fact the most oppressive...
I've never understood that bogus talking point about how "tolerant people aren't really tolerant." When people refer to themselves as tolerant, they're talking about being tolerant of others who have different traits and identities such as race, ethnicity, gender expression, sexual orientation, national origin, etc. They're not claiming a tolerance toward political stances that they believe threatens that. There's nothing any more paradoxical about it than someone who believes in rights and freedoms supporting a legal system that can revoke a person's freedoms for violating the rights and freedom of others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
I'm pretty sure it was a conservative conversation that predated Trump and has existed as long as California has existed in the popular imagination as a liberal place. Surely you know this.

The original poster is allowed to have this opinion.
Since when is population growth a matter of opinion? Either it's growing or it isn't.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:27 PM
urban_encounter's Avatar
urban_encounter urban_encounter is offline
“The Big EasyChair”
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 🌳🌴🌲 Sacramento 🌳 🌴🌲
Posts: 5,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The "everyone is fleeing the blue states bc Antifa/BLM/taxes/socialists" is a regular theme by You Know Who. And we already know the official 2020 population numbers, which show CA had robust population growth, only topped by two or three states.
People are in fact leaving the State because of high taxes/fees, bloated State bureaucracy; crappy roads and highways (despite extremely high gas taxes.) The State has an unreliable power grid; insufficient water supply and have mismanaged forest lands. The streets are now camp grounds for tens of thousands of homeless who openly defecate, urinate or shoot up and then discard their dirty needles. Yet despite the conditions on our streets, the cost of renting or buying a home is staggering.

Since you brought up antifa/blm, yes our cities are still impacted by violence and vandalism that occurred last summer where more windows were shattered than I personally was able to count (and I helped sweep up the broken glass in my city). Downtowns remain boarded up. It’s senseless to destroy our own cities in which we live, since Californians overwhelmingly support criminal justice reform.

Some Coastal cities are losing population while the interior is gaining population. But overall we are losing people and businesses.

The things I mentioned aren’t alt right or extremist talking points. They are facts..
__________________
“The best friend on earth of man is the tree. When we use the tree respectfully and economically, we have one of the greatest resources on the earth.” – Frank Lloyd Wright
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:50 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,787
The NY Times published some personal stories of people who live in Silicon Valley.

Quote:
Diane

Diane lives in a spacious house in Menlo Park, the city where Facebook is based. Her home is filled with beautiful objects from a life of travel with her husband, a Chinese businessman and philanthropist, now deceased. The couple moved to the Bay Area over 30 years ago when he retired, and they loved the area — the sunshine, the ocean, the wide-open spaces.

Since then, Diane has watched the area change: “It’s overcrowded now. It used to be lovely, you know — you had space, you had no traffic. Here it was absolutely a gorgeous place. Now it’s heavily populated — buildings are going up everywhere like there’s no tomorrow.

“The money that rolls here is unbelievable,” she continued, “and it’s in the hands of very young people now. They have too much money — there’s no spiritual feelings, just materialism.”

Victor

Victor came to Silicon Valley from El Salvador more than 25 years ago. He lives in a small white trailer in Mountain View, a couple of miles from Google’s campus. He used to live in an apartment nearby but had to leave when the rent got too high.

His trailer is parked in a long line of trailers, some inhabited by others who’ve lost their homes. Victor, who’s now in his 80s, doesn’t have electricity or running water, but the custodians in his old apartment often sneak him in to bathe and to wash his clothes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/08/b...on-valley.html
The two stories that stood out the most to me were Diane's and Victor's. Victor is living a third world slum existence in the middle of the richest region on Earth. Meanwhile, Diane doesn't like the Bay Area anymore because of all the new money. It seems like she has the means to leave but hasn't yet.

It also sounds like some of the Bay Area's problems could be solved by better transit. For instance, the couple living in Foster City said they would consider living farther away to save money but the commute keeps them from doing that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:51 PM
craigs's Avatar
craigs craigs is offline
Birds Aren't Real!
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,670
The statisticians behind these population estimates say the pandemic precipitated last year's shallow population dip. Deaths were up about 20%, births declined slightly, and people continued to move out of state while would-be immigrants and students from abroad were delayed or restricted from moving into the state.

It is fair to note, however, that fewer people would have moved to other states if housing had been more affordable.
__________________
Donald Trump is America's Hitler.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 4:57 PM
TWAK's Avatar
TWAK TWAK is offline
Resu Deretsiger
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lake County, CA
Posts: 14,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
People are in fact leaving the State because of high taxes/fees, bloated State bureaucracy; crappy roads and highways (despite extremely high gas taxes.) The State has an unreliable power grid; insufficient water supply and have mismanaged forest lands. The streets are now camp grounds for tens of thousands of homeless who openly defecate, urinate or shoot up and then discard their dirty needles. Yet despite the conditions on our streets, the cost of renting or buying a home is staggering.
I find it kind of dumb that somebody would leave based on how bloated a state bureaucracy is, but most of this stuff is what usually happens in California threads. It's more for the CE anyway...
The main factor is probably cost of living followed by fires, and lets get some sources for your next statements if they are facts. I have one.
Quote:
The federal government owns 47.70 percent of California's total land, 47,797,533 acres out of 100,206,720 total acres.
The Feds manage a lot of our forests, so whoever runs the feds...is currently mismanaging that forest land.
source
Quote:
Some Coastal cities are losing population while the interior is gaining population. But overall we are losing people and businesses.
We need to what, change everything you mentioned in the first quote? I left the bay area because the rent was too dam high, and now I own a place that cost half my rent.

Quote:
The things I mentioned aren’t alt right or extremist talking points. They are facts..
The question is, did he take your freedom away when you went ahead and posted anyway?
__________________
nobody cares about your city
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 5:00 PM
YSL YSL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 358
It definitely not only covid to blame

California gained people during the extremes of the lockdown according to their report . California started losing population in July and has accelerated since. So there is a post-Covid “exodus” happening
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 6:13 PM
craigs's Avatar
craigs craigs is offline
Birds Aren't Real!
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by YSL View Post
It definitely not only covid to blame

California gained people during the extremes of the lockdown according to their report . California started losing population in July and has accelerated since. So there is a post-Covid “exodus” happening
Let's learn from the experts:

California’s population declined for the first time ever last year. Here’s why

Kim Bojorquez
The Sacramento Bee
May 7, 2021

For the first time in state history, California’s population declined in 2020.

The milestone followed a deadly pandemic, a long-term decline in births and former President Donald Trump’s immigration policies that drove away potential newcomers, according to the California Department of Finance.

That combination contributed to a population decline of 182,083 residents, according to new data released by the state on Friday. That marks a .46% decline in the state’s population, keeping it under 40 million residents.
. . .
The COVID-19 pandemic contributed to 51,000 deaths in California last year, a 19% surge in average death rates over the past three years, according to the data. Fifty-one of the state’s 58 counties saw rates of “excess deaths.”

Strict immigration policies under the Trump administration like the suspension of immigration and foreign worker visas last year also contributed to the reduction. Furthermore, international COVID-19 restrictions led to the decline of 53,000 international students in the state.

Additionally, another long-term trend of Californians moving out of the state continued. Usually, foreign immigration offsets that kind of population decline, according to the Department of Finance, but not last year.
. . .
Natalie Holmes, a research fellow at the California Policy Lab, said the number of people leaving the state has increased steadily in recent years, but she wouldn’t categorize it as a “mass exodus.”

“Statewide we didn’t see this big uptick in people leaving the state because of the pandemic,” she said.
. . .
__________________
Donald Trump is America's Hitler.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 6:51 PM
caligrad's Avatar
caligrad caligrad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,736
Lightbulb

California is a state that people move in and out of on a regular. Its Population is always on the flux. This isn't new. I know people who have come and gone multiple times over the past 5 years. one of my best friend has come and gone 4 times in 6 years, he said he plans on staying but is already looking at Seattle (with a similar cost of living). The only diff is Covid came in and sent a lot of struggling artists in So-Cal home and techies in Nor-Cal home. To be expected.

But in all honesty. This is a good thing. People waiting in California, with no solid incomes, waiting to "be discovered"......lets be honest, if you're not making at least 20 an hour, its time to move on. If you're expecting to live comfortably as a sales rep at a store...... that may work in Arizona, Texas, and Florida but that's Impossible here. Make smart moves, Leave, don't put your life in struggle just for the sake of saying you live in California.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 7:14 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is offline
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,789
People need to move to California City, Mojave and Needles.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 7:26 PM
craigs's Avatar
craigs craigs is offline
Birds Aren't Real!
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
People need to move to California City, Mojave and Needles.
You first!
__________________
Donald Trump is America's Hitler.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 7:38 PM
dubu's Avatar
dubu dubu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: bend oregon
Posts: 1,449
you cant beat fort dick in worst town. perfect name lol.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 9:11 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
People are in fact leaving the State because of high taxes/fees, bloated State bureaucracy; crappy roads and highways (despite extremely high gas taxes.)
No, this is alt-right fakenews. You're taking a nugget of truth (people leave states at all times, for all sorts of reasons, and certainly there are people who have left CA for any number of random reasons, including "taxes, bureaucracy and roads"), but it's absolutely fakenews to claim that people are specifically abandoning CA due to such things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
Since you brought up antifa/blm, yes our cities are still impacted by violence and vandalism that occurred last summer where more windows were shattered than I personally was able to count
This is also obviously alt-right fakenews. Antifa barely exists, BLM has nothing to do with violence (in fact their entire message is anti-violence, making the claim that those who oppose police killings are themselves violent, nothing but shameless Orwellian projection meant to protect killer cops) and CA hasn't had much urban violence of the revolutionary sort since the 1960's. CA cities have basically never been safer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
The things I mentioned aren’t alt right or extremist talking points. They are facts..
If you truly believe these to be facts, there is no further discussion to be had, because you're trapped in an alternative reality. And this is why it's a Cult, destined for centuries of analysis, the same way academics today study Honnecker, Stalin and Tito.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 10:37 PM
Eightball's Avatar
Eightball Eightball is offline
life is good
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: all over
Posts: 2,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWAK View Post
I find it kind of dumb that somebody would leave based on how bloated a state bureaucracy is, but most of this stuff is what usually happens in California threads. It's more for the CE anyway...
It is not some abstract made up thing, it is quite real: this is an older article (last i saw it was up to 28% of the ENTIRE LA city budget goes to retirees). This is why the infrastucture sucks, why there are so many homeless etc despite high taxes, a huge population and great deal of wealth (well, aside from the absolutely atrocious city and state mgmt/budgetary mgmt by politicians - and I am a liberal).

Paying for public retirees has never cost L.A. taxpayers more. And that's after pension reform
Retirement benefits now eat up 20% of city’s general fund revenue. Touted cost controls won't have real impact for decades.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pension-squeeze/
Quote:
Yet the numbers tell a story jarringly at odds with the political rhetoric, a Times analysis found. Today, Los Angeles taxpayers are underwriting retirement benefits that are among the nation’s most generous — at a cost that has never been higher.

The city’s general fund payments for pensions and retiree healthcare reached $1.04 billion last year, eating up more than 20% of operating revenue — compared with less than 5% in 2002.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted May 9, 2021, 10:55 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
People need to move to California City, Mojave and Needles.
Mojave has to be one of the worst towns in America.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 2:24 AM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
E pluribus unum
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 31,262
Barstow.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 3:46 AM
urban_encounter's Avatar
urban_encounter urban_encounter is offline
“The Big EasyChair”
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 🌳🌴🌲 Sacramento 🌳 🌴🌲
Posts: 5,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
CA cities have basically never been safer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
you're trapped in an alternative reality.
Possibly, but if so I just arrived. You on the other hand have taken up permanent residence in the multiverse of ‘alternate realities’.
__________________
“The best friend on earth of man is the tree. When we use the tree respectfully and economically, we have one of the greatest resources on the earth.” – Frank Lloyd Wright
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 3:51 AM
urban_encounter's Avatar
urban_encounter urban_encounter is offline
“The Big EasyChair”
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 🌳🌴🌲 Sacramento 🌳 🌴🌲
Posts: 5,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
People need to move to California City, Mojave and Needles.

I had a cousin who met an unfortunate end in his car near Needles. The ‘unfortunate end’ wasn’t discovered until his person sat in the car for I bit longer than a week. (In the middle of Summer).
__________________
“The best friend on earth of man is the tree. When we use the tree respectfully and economically, we have one of the greatest resources on the earth.” – Frank Lloyd Wright
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted May 10, 2021, 4:24 AM
TWAK's Avatar
TWAK TWAK is offline
Resu Deretsiger
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lake County, CA
Posts: 14,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eightball View Post
It is not some abstract made up thing, it is quite real: this is an older article (last i saw it was up to 28% of the ENTIRE LA city budget goes to retirees). This is why the infrastucture sucks, why there are so many homeless etc despite high taxes, a huge population and great deal of wealth (well, aside from the absolutely atrocious city and state mgmt/budgetary mgmt by politicians - and I am a liberal).
I'm not saying the problems aren't around, but LA pension issues aren't going to make me leave the state either....maybe this will make people leave LA? I'm still gonna visit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
People need to move to California City, Mojave and Needles.
Cheaper than the bay area! There's a big ole empty city out there ready to go...
__________________
nobody cares about your city
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:47 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.