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Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 1:52 AM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard, but Especially Washington, D.C.

On the one hand, I'm destroyed that my beloved Frederick, MD, is becoming so unaffordable and I missed my chance to buy in. On the other, maybe this causes the price of homes to collapse in DC proper and I can snag a bargain there. With a $500k pre-approval, I'm in that sweet spot of making too little to afford a nice house in Washington, but making too much that I'm not resigned to living 50+ miles away. Unfortunately, there's no beautiful historic towns within 25 miles of D.C. other than Alexandria (even more overpriced than D.C. itself), so it's a devil's choice between overpriced D.C. or far-out Annapolis, Frederick, or less historic Manassas, all of which require a car and tons of traffic

The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard, but Especially Washington, D.C.

By Julie Bykowicz and Paul Overberg


Frederick, Maryland

Washington, D.C., underwent one of the most dramatic urban revivals of any U.S. city during the past two decades. Newcomers poured in, businesses expanded and developers transformed the area with high-end condos, entertainment and shopping.

The pandemic and rising housing prices began cooling that growth. The city lost a net of nearly 19,000 households to moves in 2020, according to U.S. Postal Service permanent change-of-address data. That was more than every state in the U.S. except California, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts.

Like many other big cities, the district is grappling with how to stem the outflow of Americans seeking easier and more affordable lives. Unlike many big cities, it has a particular challenge that could spell trouble for the long term.

The 61-square-mile U.S. capital relies heavily on the federal government as its biggest employer—and officials have signaled that remote work is here to stay. That effect is trickling down to the legion of businesses in the government’s orbit, with some federal contractors, lobbyists and think tanks offering similar flexibility.

Residential changes have rippled across the region, with USPS data showing net loss to suburbs, which in turn have net outflows to exurbs. As in many other major cities, the district’s violent crime rate has risen during the pandemic, with 198 homicides last year, the highest number since 2004. City leaders are also contending with homeless encampments in tourist-dense areas like around Union Station.

...

Washington gained 88,000 extra residents over the past decade, and had seemed poised for even more. Annual estimates by the Census Bureau—using birth, death and migration data—suggested that the district netted almost 100,000 people from 2010 to 2017 before growth slowed more recently. Its actual 2020 census count of about 690,000 fell 3% short of the bureau’s earlier estimates.

Between 2010 and 2020, the district’s non-Hispanic white population grew 25%, the highest rate of any of the nation’s top 30 cities. Its non-Hispanic Black population fell 6% during that time, a larger decline than most cities of its size.

Rising housing prices have drained away Black residents over the years, as landlords who had rented to mostly Black families sold properties at a premium, often to white residents or to developers trying to attract higher-income buyers, also primarily white, said Jason Richardson, director of research at the National Community Reinvestment Coalition.

Washington’s median price of a detached home sold in June was nearly $1.3 million, 59% higher than a decade earlier, while a condo was $530,000, a 47% jump in 10 years, according to regional real-estate data firm Bright MLS.

...

Before the pandemic, the district saw its population swell more than nearly any other city during an average weekday, according to cellphone data. On March 12, 2020, before widespread shutdowns, more than 1 million unique cellphones pinged within its boundaries, city officials said, or roughly 400,000 more than the number of adult residents.

While commuters and tourists haven’t fully returned, their numbers are creeping back up toward pre-pandemic levels, said John Falcicchio, deputy mayor for planning and economic development.

...

People are pushing farther out. Stafford and Loudoun counties in Virginia and Frederick County in Maryland saw the strongest area population growth rates, almost 2%, as well as the highest net migration rates per 1,000 people last year, according to a study by the D.C. Policy Center.

Tom and Tara Zachariah, both 35, spent the early part of the pandemic stepping around their baby son’s giant playpen in an 900-square-foot apartment on the district’s recently developed southwest waterfront. They arranged their work laptops Battleship-style at the dining room table.

High real-estate prices in and around the city drove them 53 miles away to Frederick, Md., a small city where they bought a 2,100-square-foot townhouse.

Mr. Zachariah’s job as a business technology strategist at International Business Machines Corp. can be done completely remotely, and Ms. Zachariah commutes to the district about three days a week for an executive job she recently started at Adfero, a communications firm in the district.

They said their housing costs dropped from about $3,500 a month to $3,000 a month in Frederick, and they’ll save $12,000 a year in daycare for their 1-year-old.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/washing...rk-11632753953
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Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 2:08 AM
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I read this article yesterday. After having lived in DC for nearly twenty years, we are moving out of DC to Westchester County. We have two young kids and we are going to be closer to their grandparents at least for the period when we can telework. I will miss the city.
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Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 3:00 AM
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There is quite a lot of doom and gloom about cities right now. I lived in DC for 5 years during the early aughts--before the gentrification boom truly took off. I have no doubt that 20,000 people left during the pandemic. My current neighborhood, in NYC's East Village, experienced a similar loss of students/people/business. But, things are back. Apartments are snapped up in seconds. And not for a discount. I suppose I am annoyed that the narrative is that "more space" and "more affordable" equals good. DC will be fine--the people that leave will be replaced. What people forget, is that these are experiences one cannot have anywhere else as Americans (in this country). I would never have lived in the NOVA burbs. Central DC will, outside of the baby boom generation, be desired real estate.
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Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 12:38 PM
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DC also had a pretty strict lockdown I think. Cities that didn’t fared better (and that’s leaving aside Miami, which exploded with growth during Covid but is an obvious outlier).
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Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 1:02 PM
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Westchester is beautiful. I'd personally much rather live there than in DC, assuming it was in one of the walkable towns. Much prettier and less transient, yet similarly cosmopolitan. Westchester is like a nicer, more historic version of Montgomery County, MD, with better schools and access to the City.

DC will come back, no question. The feds and their affiliates still have WFH policies, meaning all the lawyers, lobbyists, consultants, associations, etc. still have WFH policies. Plus DC is an international city and international commerce/movement is still mostly dead.
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Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 1:49 PM
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DC is an interesting one during this pandemic because it is so heavily skewed in the direction of offices and white collared jobs vs some other cities; Philly did okay because we have a large residential component within Center City. The city was stricter for longer with the lockdown and that definitely took a toll, though.

What's troubling to me in our cities are the housing costs, that is soaring to the moon and pricing so many people out and it's not sustainable.

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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
I read this article yesterday. After having lived in DC for nearly twenty years, we are moving out of DC to Westchester County. We have two young kids and we are going to be closer to their grandparents at least for the period when we can telework. I will miss the city.
I can't place where "Westchester County" is and the Westchester that comes to mind for me down that way is in VA but I think that is in Prince William County? I will miss your regular DC updates.
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Last edited by EastSideHBG; Sep 30, 2021 at 3:42 PM.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2021, 9:51 PM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
DC is an interesting one during this pandemic because it is so heavily skewed in the direction of offices and white collared jobs vs some other cities; Philly did okay because we have a large residential component within Center City. The city was stricter for longer with the lockdown and that definitely took a toll, though.

What's troubling to me in our cities are the housing costs, that is soaring to the moon and pricing so many people out and it's not sustainable.


I can't place where "Westchester County" is and the Westchester that comes to mind for me down that way is in VA but I think that is in Prince William County? I will miss your regular DC updates.
I assume it's "THE" Westchester County (aka the one in New York).

We don't have a Westchester here in Virginia, and the closest named one is Winchester in the Northern Shenandoah Valley.

I also just realized the irony of lamenting the DC outflow when I myself left Alexandria for Prince William County a few months ago.
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Old Posted Oct 1, 2021, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
I assume it's "THE" Westchester County (aka the one in New York).
I was thinking about that one also but with Crawford's comments I wasn't sure.

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We don't have a Westchester here in Virginia, and the closest named one is Winchester in the Northern Shenandoah Valley.
There are at least two that I am aware of: a neighborhood in Richmond and the area in PW County that I had mentioned, I have been to both (but I assume you mean a city/county).

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I also just realized the irony of lamenting the DC outflow when I myself left Alexandria for Prince William County a few months ago.
Go visit Westchester sometime How do you feel about the move so far?
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Old Posted Oct 1, 2021, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
On the one hand, I'm destroyed that my beloved Frederick, MD, is becoming so unaffordable and I missed my chance to buy in. On the other, maybe this causes the price of homes to collapse in DC proper and I can snag a bargain there. With a $500k pre-approval, I'm in that sweet spot of making too little to afford a nice house in Washington, but making too much that I'm not resigned to living 50+ miles away. Unfortunately, there's no beautiful historic towns within 25 miles of D.C. other than Alexandria (even more overpriced than D.C. itself), so it's a devil's choice between overpriced D.C. or far-out Annapolis, Frederick, or less historic Manassas, all of which require a car and tons of traffic

The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard, but Especially Washington, D.C.

By Julie Bykowicz and Paul Overberg


Frederick, Maryland

Washington, D.C., underwent one of the most dramatic urban revivals of any U.S. city during the past two decades. Newcomers poured in, businesses expanded and developers transformed the area with high-end condos, entertainment and shopping.

The pandemic and rising housing prices began cooling that growth. The city lost a net of nearly 19,000 households to moves in 2020, according to U.S. Postal Service permanent change-of-address data. That was more than every state in the U.S. except California, New York, Illinois and Massachusetts.

Like many other big cities, the district is grappling with how to stem the outflow of Americans seeking easier and more affordable lives. Unlike many big cities, it has a particular challenge that could spell trouble for the long term.

The 61-square-mile U.S. capital relies heavily on the federal government as its biggest employer—and officials have signaled that remote work is here to stay. That effect is trickling down to the legion of businesses in the government’s orbit, with some federal contractors, lobbyists and think tanks offering similar flexibility.

Residential changes have rippled across the region, with USPS data showing net loss to suburbs, which in turn have net outflows to exurbs. As in many other major cities, the district’s violent crime rate has risen during the pandemic, with 198 homicides last year, the highest number since 2004. City leaders are also contending with homeless encampments in tourist-dense areas like around Union Station.

...

Washington gained 88,000 extra residents over the past decade, and had seemed poised for even more. Annual estimates by the Census Bureau—using birth, death and migration data—suggested that the district netted almost 100,000 people from 2010 to 2017 before growth slowed more recently. Its actual 2020 census count of about 690,000 fell 3% short of the bureau’s earlier estimates.

Between 2010 and 2020, the district’s non-Hispanic white population grew 25%, the highest rate of any of the nation’s top 30 cities. Its non-Hispanic Black population fell 6% during that time, a larger decline than most cities of its size.

Rising housing prices have drained away Black residents over the years, as landlords who had rented to mostly Black families sold properties at a premium, often to white residents or to developers trying to attract higher-income buyers, also primarily white, said Jason Richardson, director of research at the National Community Reinvestment Coalition.

Washington’s median price of a detached home sold in June was nearly $1.3 million, 59% higher than a decade earlier, while a condo was $530,000, a 47% jump in 10 years, according to regional real-estate data firm Bright MLS.

...

Before the pandemic, the district saw its population swell more than nearly any other city during an average weekday, according to cellphone data. On March 12, 2020, before widespread shutdowns, more than 1 million unique cellphones pinged within its boundaries, city officials said, or roughly 400,000 more than the number of adult residents.

While commuters and tourists haven’t fully returned, their numbers are creeping back up toward pre-pandemic levels, said John Falcicchio, deputy mayor for planning and economic development.

...

People are pushing farther out. Stafford and Loudoun counties in Virginia and Frederick County in Maryland saw the strongest area population growth rates, almost 2%, as well as the highest net migration rates per 1,000 people last year, according to a study by the D.C. Policy Center.

Tom and Tara Zachariah, both 35, spent the early part of the pandemic stepping around their baby son’s giant playpen in an 900-square-foot apartment on the district’s recently developed southwest waterfront. They arranged their work laptops Battleship-style at the dining room table.

High real-estate prices in and around the city drove them 53 miles away to Frederick, Md., a small city where they bought a 2,100-square-foot townhouse.

Mr. Zachariah’s job as a business technology strategist at International Business Machines Corp. can be done completely remotely, and Ms. Zachariah commutes to the district about three days a week for an executive job she recently started at Adfero, a communications firm in the district.

They said their housing costs dropped from about $3,500 a month to $3,000 a month in Frederick, and they’ll save $12,000 a year in daycare for their 1-year-old.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/washing...rk-11632753953

The Pandemic didn't do any of this. The Human reaction to the pandemic did it.
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2021, 5:23 AM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
Go visit Westchester sometime How do you feel about the move so far?
Mixed bag. I really like the area where I live and have a commuter rail station about a 3 minute walk from my apartment. It's also really quiet, very green (lush, green hills), has lots of walking trails, and feels very safe.

On the flipside, I have to drive everywhere now, what I thought was a 30 minute drive to D.C. is more like a one hour drive to D.C. because I-95 is so congested that 9/10 times Google sends me through local roads. The commuter rail is fine for getting into/out of D.C., but there's no service on the weekends, so my entertainment options are Potomac Mills - a bazillion chain stores - or making the drive to D.C. and getting into traffic.

So long-term I'm going to find a middle balance. I got a $500k pre-approval, which means I can afford closer than Prince William County, but can't afford inside the Beltway realistically. So maybe someplace like Reston or Herndon gives me both access to the center city, airport, and arts/culture I want, with the safety and access to nature that I'd also ideally want.

Personally, I thought about moving to Frederick, Maryland, since it checks all my boxes (historic, green, next to mountains, safe), but now I realize how important commute times are. Same for Manassas, too far away.

So I'm a bit stuck.
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Old Posted Oct 2, 2021, 3:29 PM
aaronevill aaronevill is offline
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Honestly...I think a lot of these articles and endless speculation is people trying to make themselves feel good about living in a boring place. I have lived in Tampa and DC. DC was unquestionably more educated, wealthy, and interesting. NYC eclipses both. Educated people flock to these places for a reason. Whether or not the business districts regain their previous importance doesn't change the fact that DC has more amenities for rich people than St. Louis. Lived in both. Not even close.
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Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 8:41 AM
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DC will be fine. There will probably be less of an emphasis on offices and more of an emphasis on residential development and regional transportation in the future.

5 years from now DC (and it's suburbs) will be more vibrant and populated than ever.
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Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronevill View Post
Honestly...I think a lot of these articles and endless speculation is people trying to make themselves feel good about living in a boring place. I have lived in Tampa and DC. DC was unquestionably more educated, wealthy, and interesting. NYC eclipses both. Educated people flock to these places for a reason. Whether or not the business districts regain their previous importance doesn't change the fact that DC has more amenities for rich people than St. Louis. Lived in both. Not even close.
That's it. Here in São Paulo was the same people. Lots of young people was forced to decamp to their parents house back upstate.

At first we've seen lots of praising for the "simpler life". Those are becoming more rare and many moved back to São Paulo or are always here.
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Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Mixed bag. I really like the area where I live and have a commuter rail station about a 3 minute walk from my apartment. It's also really quiet, very green (lush, green hills), has lots of walking trails, and feels very safe.

On the flipside, I have to drive everywhere now, what I thought was a 30 minute drive to D.C. is more like a one hour drive to D.C. because I-95 is so congested that 9/10 times Google sends me through local roads. The commuter rail is fine for getting into/out of D.C., but there's no service on the weekends, so my entertainment options are Potomac Mills - a bazillion chain stores - or making the drive to D.C. and getting into traffic.

So long-term I'm going to find a middle balance. I got a $500k pre-approval, which means I can afford closer than Prince William County, but can't afford inside the Beltway realistically. So maybe someplace like Reston or Herndon gives me both access to the center city, airport, and arts/culture I want, with the safety and access to nature that I'd also ideally want.

Personally, I thought about moving to Frederick, Maryland, since it checks all my boxes (historic, green, next to mountains, safe), but now I realize how important commute times are. Same for Manassas, too far away.

So I'm a bit stuck.
I completely understand. And I have family in Frederick who have been there for a while so I know exactly what you mean.
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