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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Harris County is bigger in raw numbers (almost half of all of GA in total pop.) but Atlanta and the rest of the traditional south have a higher % of African-Americans. Harris County and the rest of Texas have a higher % of Hispanics.
I know. I'm just saying East Texas, and the Houston area in particular, is not like the rest of Texas. East Texas, in fact, is pretty much "West Louisiana" in many ways. Especially Southeast Texas.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 10:48 PM
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Dallas. The biggest city in Oklahoma.
Lol ya'll make fun of Dallas and it might save America.

If Texas were to actually turn blue in the next couple of decades/election cycles, it will be because of Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, and Denton Counties. (Along with Austin and its immediate suburbs).
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 10:48 PM
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Lol ya'll make fun of Dallas and it might save America.

If Texas were to actually turn blue in the next couple of decades/election cycles, it will be because of Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, and Denton Counties. (Along with Austin and its immediate suburbs).
Urban Texas in general will turn Texas blue. Not just the Austin and Dallas areas. I've seen the dramatic shift here in the Houston area since I've lived here. But yeah:

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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Lol ya'll make fun of Dallas and it might save America.

If Texas were to actually turn blue in the next couple of decades/election cycles, it will be because of Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, and Denton Counties. (Along with Austin and its immediate suburbs).
If Texas is ever gonna go blue, we're gonna need to see substantial blue shifts in the suburbs of both Dallas AND Houston.

As it stands now, as posted earlier in the thread, the Dallas and Houston MSAs are 2 of the bottom 4 of the 20 largest MSAs in terms of blue margin in the 2020 presidential election (along with Phoenix and Tampa).

I think that's part of the reason that you sometimes see outsiders making fun of Dallas and Houston. Here we now have a classic sunbelt metro like Atlanta posting a blue +16 in the last election, but Texas's two big diverse juggernauts can only muster +1 each? If the Dallas and Houston MSAs both posted +16's last november, Texas easily goes blue and trump loses in a massive landslide.

The Austin MSA is already there, posting a +23 for Biden in 2020, but it couldn't overcome the numbers of Dallas and Houston.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Sep 21, 2021 at 1:49 AM.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Lol ya'll make fun of Dallas and it might save America.

If Texas were to actually turn blue in the next couple of decades/election cycles, it will be because of Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, and Denton Counties. (Along with Austin and its immediate suburbs).
Tarrant County went for Trump in 2016. The ONLY major county to do so. Even suburban Fort Bend County (think: Sugar Land) went for Hillary. San Antonio and Houston will help turn Texas blue just as much as the places you listed.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Urban Texas in general will turn Texas blue. Not just the Austin and Dallas areas. I've seen the dramatic shift here in the Houston area since I've lived here. But yeah:

An outsider's perspective, but Dallas seems way more "Texan" than Houston.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Tarrant County went for Trump in 2016. The ONLY major county to do so. Even suburban Fort Bend County (think: Sugar Land) went for Hillary. San Antonio and Houston will help turn Texas blue just as much as the places you listed.
I think this is somewhat incidental.

Tarrant County is sort of a weird hybrid between a traditional core urban county and an exurban one if you think about it. Fort Worth has grown because northwesterly pointing $$$$ Dallas sprawl in the direction of Southlake, Westlake, Roanoke, etc collided with it's northern edge. Elsewhere seems very slow growth and less affluent. So you have older city areas and 1950s suburbs and then suddenly, post-2010's McMansion development.

Also if you look at a map of the city limits of Fort Worth it's obvious why its among the largest cities to be run by a Republican mayor. 20 years ago it had maybe 300,000 people and now it has 900,000 and all of that is due to annexation of new sprawl.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
An outsider's perspective, but Dallas seems way more "Texan" than Houston.
Thank gawd for that! (Says this Houstonian)

ETA: Incidentally, when I moved to San Antonio four years ago I felt like I had moved to Texas.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 12:08 AM
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I think East Texas is like West Louisiana. Same humidity but worse liquor laws.

Real Texas sort of picks up around Brenham.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:39 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
An outsider's perspective, but Dallas seems way more "Texan" than Houston.
I feel like Houston has more of a Texas cultural vibe than Dallas. Fort Worth on the other hand feels exactly like you think Texas would be like, just like San Antonio. Dallas seems like the least "Texan" of the big cities. Even Austin feels more "Texan".
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:52 AM
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Dallas seems like the least "Texan" of the big cities.
"Big Tex" and fried butter notwithstanding.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 4:03 AM
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
I think this is somewhat incidental.

Tarrant County is sort of a weird hybrid between a traditional core urban county and an exurban one if you think about it. Fort Worth has grown because northwesterly pointing $$$$ Dallas sprawl in the direction of Southlake, Westlake, Roanoke, etc collided with it's northern edge. Elsewhere seems very slow growth and less affluent. So you have older city areas and 1950s suburbs and then suddenly, post-2010's McMansion development.

Also if you look at a map of the city limits of Fort Worth it's obvious why its among the largest cities to be run by a Republican mayor. 20 years ago it had maybe 300,000 people and now it has 900,000 and all of that is due to annexation of new sprawl.
Twenty years ago, FW had a population of 534,000 rather than 300,000. There's been fairly substantial population growth in the west/southwest quadrant of the city during the past twenty years, but the bulk (65% or so) of FW population growth has been towards Denton County to the northeast of downtown. It's worth noting that annexation is much more difficult, if not impossible, due to the new annexation law passed in 2019. Tarrant County had a population of 1.45 million in 2000. Today it is about 2.1 million The GDP of the FW division of the DFW metro is roughly $130 Billion, which is about the the same size as the San Antonio GDP. Fort Worth is home to a fairly large number of very wealthy old and new money families and a substantial professional/business class with upper middle class incomes. It is also home to a shrinking middle class and a disproportionately large number of low income households. There are beautiful posh neighborhoods like Rivercrest, Westover Hills, Colonial, Park Hill, and Mistletoe Heights near the center of the city just west and southwest of downtown. Tarrant County fared pretty well with corporate relocations in recent years, but downtown Fort Worth, which is actually a very pleasant place, has not been able capture a headquarters relocation of any size during that time frame. In theory downtown Fort Worth is well positioned for growth, but that all remains to be seen. In 2020 Biden won in the city of FW by a few percentage points. Tarrant County even went Blue for the first time in decades, but the razor thin margin of victory for Biden was under 2,000 votes countywide out of almost 850,000 votes cast.

Disclaimer: I was born and raised in Fort Worth. My family has been there since the late 1800s. I left to go to college in New Orleans and never really looked back. Actually could not wait to get out of the place. Still, I have a certain soft spot in my heart for The Fort that allows me to overlook some of its more glaring deficiencies. There is a level of willful/hateful ignorance operative among old timers in the city that crops up often when I visit. This is especially true with regards to the hot topics of our current era. Fort Worth has a proud history and also a shameful history. The latter is best left undisturbed. I participate in a Facebook Fort Worth history group where this lesson repeats itself with enough regularity that I remember all too well why I decamped so long ago on a life-long exploration of some of America's more tolerant and open minded cities.

Last edited by austlar1; Sep 21, 2021 at 4:18 AM.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 4:40 AM
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The best thing come out of Tarrant county:

Video Link
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
If Texas is ever gonna go blue, we're gonna need to see substantial blue shifts in the suburbs of both Dallas AND Houston.

As it stands now, as posted earlier in the thread, the Dallas and Houston MSAs are 2 of the bottom 4 of the 20 largest MSAs in terms of blue margin in the 2020 presidential election (along with Phoenix and Tampa).

I think that's part of the reason that you sometimes see outsiders making fun of Dallas and Houston. Here we now have a classic sunbelt metro like Atlanta posting a blue +16 in the last election, but Texas's two big diverse juggernauts can only muster +1 each? If the Dallas and Houston MSAs both posted +16's last november, Texas easily goes blue and trump loses in a massive landslide.

The Austin MSA is already there, posting a +23 for Biden in 2020, but it couldn't overcome the numbers of Dallas and Houston.

It'll happen. Each Dallas area county basically shifted almost 10 points between 2016 and 2020. The demographics can move tectonically.

Chester County PA...one of the wealthiest counties in the country...due 20 miles west of Philly...was a Republican stronghold for all of history until the past 8 years. Didn't even vote for Obama. Was Clinton plus or minus 2. First time ever voted for a Democrat. Went Biden +17. Something like 60% of adults have a college degree and median household income is well north of 100K. Many towns in Chesco have median incomes approaching $200K plus.

The demographics there are not that different from Collin or Denton. It is happening as we speak. Wait for it.

And tbh. Metro Houston is super disappointing. Fort Bend County seems to be shifting left but overall not nearly as liberal as one would expect for a major metropolitan area. Who knows. Maybe because the newcomers are from Louisiana/Gulf Coast?
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
An outsider's perspective, but Dallas seems way more "Texan" than Houston.
I’d said. And from my international, it’s even more: Dallas = Texas.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
I’d said. And from my international, it’s even more: Dallas = Texas.
Yeah, for TX, I think of Dallas first.

East TX and Houston are more Gulf/Louisiana/Deep South influenced, and anything west of Austin/San Antonio starts feeling like the West. As soon as things get more arid it feels like a different state.

I get that Dallas is basically Oklahoma South, but North TX and OK are pretty similar.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:06 PM
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Dallas is stereotypical Texas but Houston has the best livestock and rodeo show.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:17 PM
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And Lockhart has the best bbq in texas,
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Yeah, for TX, I think of Dallas first.

East TX and Houston are more Gulf/Louisiana/Deep South influenced, and anything west of Austin/San Antonio starts feeling like the West. As soon as things get more arid it feels like a different state.

I get that Dallas is basically Oklahoma South, but North TX and OK are pretty similar.
For people relatively well-informed here, the whole idea of Dallas is automatically associated with Texas.

If you ask someone (well-informed people, obviously the vast majority has no clue about it) to say two things about Houston, it probably goes with "NASA" and "oil". For Dallas, it would be "Texas" and "cowboys".
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