Dallas: Capitol of America's Heartland?

[llamaorama]

It's what it is. The one nice thing you could say about Dallas is that at least it's growing fast and that's driving infill development in established suburbs, there's a desire to create at least semi-walkable pockets all around the metroplex.

At least it's slightly better than Houston. Houston has grown a lot inside the 610 loop but it's suburbs never embraced the whole "new urbanism" trend and unlike Dallas it doesn't have nearly as many established small towns that add older neighborhoods and small downtowns or main streets embedded in it's sprawl. I actually kind of prefer Dallas' decentralized nature to Houston's concentration of most things. Houston's coastal plain location was a total blank slate, and it has these endless swaths of nowhere, like, say Spring. Just 1970s subdivisions, empty strip malls, and that's about it. But even DFW's equivalent mediocre suburbia have anchors or things to do or just areas with character.

[Shawn]

Since we're all over the place in this thread, Japan is somewhat similar to the US in terms of media representation and concentration. Tokyo (New York) and Osaka (LA) dictate content tone and perspective for the whole country. Nagoya is even more invisible than its American analog Chicago; there are no Nagoya crime or hospital serials, and there is no Nagoya Second City. And similar to the US, outside of national media representation, Japanese regional cities strongly dictate regional culture (or reflect it, depending on your perspective). Sendai is the cultural/economic capital of the entire Tohoku Region, and it feels vastly different than Kanto (Greater Tokyo) or Kansai (Greater Osaka). But whenever there's a NHK period drama about Masamune Date and the Date Daimyo, it's produced and largely shot in Tokyo instead of Sendai.

[Shawn]

The fact that Dallas has DART is huge. That's an infrastructure leg-up on Houston that in theory gives Dallas a big advantage in urbanizing over time.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Shawn

The fact that Dallas has DART is huge. That's an infrastructure leg-up on Houston that in theory gives Dallas a big advantage in urbanizing over time.

And Houston has MetroRail, so I don't understand how Dallas has the advantage here.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by ue

And Houston has MetroRail, so I don't understand how Dallas has the advantage here.

DART is much more expansive, even though to first order nobody rides it (<1000 boardngs per mile).

[Yuri]

I don’t know about you guys, but sometimes still feels odd to think Dallas is an 8 million people metropolis. When I started to make all those US population tables when I was teen, right before the release of 2000 Census numbers, Dallas was a 4 million area and even that was impressive due the fast growth of previous decades.

[JManc]

DFW has commuter rail, Trinity Railway Express, which Houston lacks plus DART has had a huge head start on us in light rail but Metro is expanding pretty quickly though.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

I don’t know about you guys, but sometimes still feels odd to think Dallas is an 8 million people metropolis. When I started to make all those US population tables when I was teen, right before the release of 2000 Census numbers, Dallas was a 4 million area and even that was impressive due the fast growth of previous decades.

According to the following website the DFW pop was over 5.2 million in 2000. Did you mean 1990? http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2000.htm

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by DCReid

According to the following website the DFW pop was over 5.2 million in 2000. Did you mean 1990? http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2000.htm

When I started the table, the 2000 Census numbers were yet to be released. 1999 Estimates and 1990 Census were the main reference. 2000 came way above expectations and Dallas metro area definition had less counties than today.

So in my mind and on people who paid attention, Dallas was on the 4 million level. In 2030, Dallas metro area will have crossed the 9 million barrier. It’s crazy.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

So in my mind and on people who paid attention, Dallas was on the 4 million level.

but that was in your mind.

in reality, the DFW metroplex went from being a ~5.2M MSA in 2000 to a ~7.6M MSA in 2020.

that's obviously still crazy fast growth for a major US metro area, but we don't need to oversell it by implying that it doubled in size in only 20 years.

all we have to do is roll the tape back to 1990, then we can accurately say that the metroplex has roughly doubled in size over the past 3 decades, from ~3.9M in 1990 to ~7.6M in 2020.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

but that was in your mind.

in reality, the DFW metroplex went from being a ~5.2M MSA in 2000 to a ~7.6M MSA in 2020.

that's obviously still crazy fast growth for a major US metro area, but we don't need to oversell it by implying that it doubled in size in only 20 years.

all we have to do is roll the tape back to 1990, then we actully can accurately say that the metroplex has roughly doubled in size over the past 3 decades, from ~3.9M in 1990 to ~7.6M in 2020.

Ok, I said that! My point was simple: when I was in my teen years, starting to organize US metro area tables, Dallas was a metro area in its 4 million. Up to the eve of the 2020 Census, they haven't reached the 5 million mark.

When I started to think of Dallas, they were in their 4 million. And now, at least, to me, it's still weird to think of them as an 8 million people metro area.

We all know their actual numbers.

[The North One]

Anybody in Dallas know if there are any plans for improving this park? https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7824...7i16384!8i8192

This is what I was talking about when I said there was great potential. This is the center of the city, surrounded by very impressive skyscrapers and hotels but the public realm is being terribly underutilized.

This could be easily fixed. For one, a renovation of the park here. Get rid of the fortress walls and make this into a sort of Campus Martius area, add in a cafe or a restaurant so people are more likely to just hang out here. Add more retail along the surrounding buildings with some street level facade improvements. Currently there's next to no retail and whatever is there seems to be empty.

There's even a light rail line that passes through, all the ingredients for a great urban center are here. The city just needs to put in a little effort.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by The North One

Anybody in Dallas know if there are any plans for improving this park? https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7824...7i16384!8i8192

This is what I was talking about when I said there was great potential. This is the center of the city, surrounded by very impressive skyscrapers and hotels but the public realm is being terribly underutilized.

This could be easily fixed. For one, a renovation of the park here. Get rid of the fortress walls and make this into a sort of Campus Martius area, add in a cafe or a restaurant so people are more likely to just hang out here. Add more retail along the surrounding buildings with some street level facade improvements. Currently there's next to no retail and whatever is there seems to be empty.

There's even a light rail line that passes through, all the ingredients for a great urban center are here. The city just needs to put in a little effort.

It's private property and they would have to find a way to preserve the Philip Johnson chapel but yeah, it's dated and sterile.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by The North One

Anybody in Dallas know if there are any plans for improving this park? https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7824...7i16384!8i8192

This is what I was talking about when I said there was great potential. This is the center of the city, surrounded by very impressive skyscrapers and hotels but the public realm is being terribly underutilized.

This could be easily fixed. For one, a renovation of the park here. Get rid of the fortress walls and make this into a sort of Campus Martius area, add in a cafe or a restaurant so people are more likely to just hang out here. Add more retail along the surrounding buildings with some street level facade improvements. Currently there's next to no retail and whatever is there seems to be empty.

There's even a light rail line that passes through, all the ingredients for a great urban center are here. The city just needs to put in a little effort.

Just browsing around downtown Dallas a little bit, it looks like there is a decent amount of green/public space/squares. Just one block over from Thanksgiving Square, there is Pacific Plaza. Then just 2 blocks south of Pacific Plaza is Main Street Garden Park. Then there's also the Giant Eyeball, Pegasus Plaza, and Civic Garden.

So six pretty substantial areas for the public to hang out. Within a 3x5 block area. That's pretty good actually. But perhaps under-optimized/utilized.

[Chisouthside]

Plenty of parking lots too for residential.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

but that was in your mind.

in reality, the DFW metroplex went from being a ~5.2M MSA in 2000 to a ~7.6M MSA in 2020.

that's obviously still crazy fast growth for a major US metro area, but we don't need to oversell it by implying that it doubled in size in only 20 years.

all we have to do is roll the tape back to 1990, then we can accurately say that the metroplex has roughly doubled in size over the past 3 decades, from ~3.9M in 1990 to ~7.6M in 2020.

I believe that's the Dallas CSA equivalent number. I believe the Dallas MSA was around 4.1M in 2000 vs 7.6M in 2020...

[DCReid]

Looking at the webpage that I cited, can someone tell me if it is correct on the metros in 2000 per the US Census? http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2000.htm

If you notice, DC and Baltimore are listed as combined but Miami and West Palm Beach were separate. Did this correspond with the US Census designation changes? I know that US Census changed some of the cities listed in metros due to their population shifts, such as Dallas-FW becoming DFW with Plano listed, and Houston swapping Brazoria and Galveston for the Woodlands and Sugar Land, but cannot recall if DC and Baltimore were only separated after 2000 and Miami and West Palm were combined after 2000.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Looking at the webpage that I cited, can someone tell me if it is correct on the metros in 2000 per the US Census? http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2000.htm

If you notice, DC and Baltimore are listed as combined but Miami and West Palm Beach were separate. Did this correspond with the US Census designation changes? I know that US Census changed some of the cities listed in metros due to their population shifts, such as Dallas-FW becoming DFW with Plano listed, and Houston swapping Brazoria and Galveston for the Woodlands and Sugar Land, but cannot recall if DC and Baltimore were only separated after 2000 and Miami and West Palm were combined after 2000.

Here you have all definitions since the beginning of times (1950): https://www.census.gov/geographies/r...ion-files.html

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

It's what it is. The one nice thing you could say about Dallas is that at least it's growing fast and that's driving infill development in established suburbs, there's a desire to create at least semi-walkable pockets all around the metroplex.

At least it's slightly better than Houston. Houston has grown a lot inside the 610 loop but it's suburbs never embraced the whole "new urbanism" trend and unlike Dallas it doesn't have nearly as many established small towns that add older neighborhoods and small downtowns or main streets embedded in it's sprawl. I actually kind of prefer Dallas' decentralized nature to Houston's concentration of most things. Houston's coastal plain location was a total blank slate, and it has these endless swaths of nowhere, like, say Spring. Just 1970s subdivisions, empty strip malls, and that's about it. But even DFW's equivalent mediocre suburbia have anchors or things to do or just areas with character.

Houston also has those freeway frontage roads with giant strip malls that sucks retail and pedestrian activity away from the town centers and main streets.

[Dariusb]

I recently saw a YouTube video that spoke of HSR between Dallas and Houston being open. Is that true? I thought it was still under construction.