Remote work is here to stay: Manhattan may never be the same - Page 9

jtown,man · #**161** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernie mac

Your point is pointless since they make the VAST majority of the money.

No. My point is that they pay the majority of taxes and if they left(or even a small minority of them) NYC would be in a world of pain.

Your political point doesn't change that.

iheartthed · #**162** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Businesses may move out of NYC, remote workers may move out of NYC.

A family making 400k MIGHT NOT think Florida is a cesspool of disgustingness like you imagine. Or Texas, some people like places like that, even wealthy people (shocker).

But there aren't a lot of jobs in Florida that command those salaries. For all this talk about Florida's low taxes, it's still a fairly poor state. Of the 10 largest states, Florida ranks second to last in per capita income. And of all states, it ranks #38.

bernie mac · #**163** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

No. My point is that they pay the majority of taxes and if they left(or even a small minority of them) NYC would be in a world of pain.

No, they would simply be replaced.

jtown,man · #**164** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

But there aren't a lot of jobs in Florida that command those salaries. For all this talk about Florida's low taxes, it's still a fairly poor state. Of the 10 largest states, Florida ranks second to last in per capita income. And of all states, it ranks #38.

I am talking about people doing remote work, moving to a second house to avoid NYC taxes(they can work from the phone), and companies and their employees moving.

jtown,man · #**165** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernie mac

No, they would simply be replaced.

That's the educated response I would expect from someone like you.

bernie mac · #**166** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

That's the educated response I would expect from someone like you.

I want to be smarter like you! How much boot do I have to lick before my IQ reaches your level?

Pedestrian · #**167** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

But there aren't a lot of jobs in Florida that command those salaries. For all this talk about Florida's low taxes, it's still a fairly poor state. Of the 10 largest states, Florida ranks second to last in per capita income. And of all states, it ranks #38.

As everyone says, it's rich with retirees and retirees don't generally have high incomes but they don't need them. Their homes are often paid for. They don't need business wardrobes or have the cost of commuting. A day on the community golf course or fishing off the pier or from a small boat isn't that expensive.

But Florida does have enclaves for the rich and not just Palm Beach:

https://www.google.com/search?rls=en...q-hvoR7usNxreM
Clubhouse of Sawgrass golf resort in Ponte Vedra near Jacksonville

iheartthed · #**168** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I am talking about people doing remote work, moving to a second house to avoid NYC taxes(they can work from the phone), and companies and their employees moving.

Those people who can do that are gone anyway. Even if the tax rate were 0%, I don't really get why someone would work a 100% remote role in NYC with no other obligations that keeps them here. It's expensive, the weather is kind of terrible, and the living spaces are small. New York will never compete with Florida on weather or cost of living.

jtown,man · #**169** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernie mac

I want to be smarter like you! How much boot do I have to lick before my IQ reaches your level?

Can we somehow ban people under a certain posting level from posting in general discussions? lol

What does liking or hating police have to do with the fact that the NYC rich fund most of the cities budget?

jtown,man · #**170** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Those people who can do that are gone anyway. Even if the tax rate were 0%, I don't really get why someone would work a 100% remote role in NYC with no other obligations that keeps them here. It's expensive, the weather is kind of terrible, and the living spaces are small. New York will never compete with Florida on weather or cost of living.

We have forumers on here that are convinced WFH will actually grow central cities as people have more options to live the lifestyle they want. I tend to disagree, but there will always be a subset of people, including the rich, who stay in cities because of things they like that are unique to that location.

TexasPlaya · #**171** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:52 PM**

I think it's pretty reasonable to see NYC having another cycle where it stagnates or even steps back due to a combination of an aging population, technology, and taxes (which also relates to demographics).

Hopefully we won't won't be making a new Escape From New York movie.

iheartthed · #**172** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

We have forums on here that are convinced WFH will actually grow central cities as people have more options to live the lifestyle they want. I tend to disagree, but there will always be a subset of people, including the rich, who stay in cities because of things they like that are unique to that location.

I disagree with them too.

Pedestrian · #**173** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 10:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I think it's pretty reasonable to see NYC having another cycle where it stagnates or even steps back due to a combination of an aging population, technology, and taxes (which also relates to demographics).

Hopefully we won't won't be making a new Escape From New York movie.

Does it need Rudi redux?

SIGSEGV · #**174** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 10:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I disagree with them too.

The problem for NYC (and SF and Boston) is that they're super expensive, so if you just want to live in ANY city, they wouldn't be the top choice.

iheartthed · #**175** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

The problem for NYC (and SF and Boston) is that they're super expensive, so if you just want to live in ANY city, they wouldn't be the top choice.

Yeah, that may have a limited benefit to a lower cost city. If I were remote and just wanted to be in a walkable city, I'd probably choose Philadelphia or Chicago, assuming I was still receiving a NYC or Bay Area salary.

But, I think the number of workers that will be permanently untethered from their desks in SF or NYC is being vastly overestimated. And even if they all were, it wouldn't really make a difference to any single city if those workers fanned out across the country indiscriminately. If every single high-income person drained out of NYC and spread out evenly to the other top 10 metros, it would barely register in those other metros.

SIGSEGV · #**176** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 10:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, that may have a limited benefit to a lower cost city. If I were remote and just wanted to be in a walkable city, I'd probably choose Philadelphia or Chicago, assuming I was still receiving a NYC or Bay Area salary.

But, I think the number of workers that will be permanently untethered from their desks in SF or NYC is being vastly overestimated. And even if they all were, it wouldn't really make a difference to any single city if those workers fanned out across the country indiscriminately. If every single high-income person drained out of NYC and spread out evenly to the other top 10 metros, it would barely register in those other metros.

I agree it's being overestimated, especially for NYC. SF and Seattle are likely the biggest losers since software development is much more amenable to remote-only than a lot of other jobs.

JManc · #**177** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 10:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I think it's pretty reasonable to see NYC having another cycle where it stagnates or even steps back due to a combination of an aging population, technology, and taxes (which also relates to demographics).

Hopefully we won't won't be making a new Escape From New York movie.

Speak for yourself. Snake Plissken needs to make an appearance at the M&M store.

edale · #**178** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 10:59 PM**

I have no idea if this stat has already been shared here, but I just saw this excerpt from a Bloomberg article called "What Happens When the 1% Go Remote":

"A whopping 80% of NYC's income tax revenue comes from the 17% of its residents who earn $100,000+ per year. If just 5% of those folks decided to move away, it would cost the city almost one billion ($933 million) in lost tax revenue."

SIGSEGV · #**179** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 11:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

I have no idea if this stat has already been shared here, but I just saw this excerpt from a Bloomberg article called "What Happens When the 1% Go Remote":

"A whopping 80% of NYC's income tax revenue comes from the 17% of its residents who earn $100,000+ per year. If just 5% of those folks decided to move away, it would cost the city almost one billion ($933 million) in lost tax revenue."

if they still work "in" NYC, even remotely, won't they still pay NYC tax?

Pedestrian · #**180** Posted **Apr 13, 2021, 11:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

I agree it's being overestimated, especially for NYC. SF and Seattle are likely the biggest losers since software development is much more amenable to remote-only than a lot of other jobs.

You can engineer software remotely but I question whether you can plan and design it remotely to the extent that is a creative and collaborative process which a lot of it is.

I am trying to visualize plotting a new game or business app via Zoom. I wonder if that can really work.

It's like trying to write a collaborative novel or play via Zoom. Seems cumbersome to say the least.