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  #3261  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
Incidentally, has anyone seen the renderings of the new terminal design at JFK? Fuckin WOOF

https://www.archpaper.com/2021/12/ge...ional-airport/
I just do not understand American design/construction pricing but in particular NYC pricing. Looks rather ho-hum to be honest.

I still would have preferred Fosters T2 design, but I am happy with Gang's T2 when comparing it to this 9.5b design.
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  #3262  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 3:42 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Curious, why such animosity against the place (and to clarify, not you specifically, but from others who've expressed the same feelings in the forum)?
Ohare, like Atlanta, doesn't really feel like a "place". You're always in a hallway. Ironically, the spot that does have a sense of place is just a hallway, the Terminal one tunnel with the moving walkway and lights.

If you have two hours to kill, it sucks to spend it an terminal that was designed before 2000. They were designed to accommodate the number of passengers they handle, they don't have enough bathrooms and restaurants per traveler and they feel cramped--like you are either in a waiting room or you're in a hallway, nothing else.

My modern standard for design is the Madrid airport--though I know there are many other stand outs that I haven't been to.
https://e3.365dm.com/20/02/2048x1152...20200203144932

In the U.S., Detroit's newest terminal is pretty good. The new LaGuardia terminal is not bad. Midway's new dining hall in Terminal-A was a major upgrade. And the addition of the bars in the center of the concourses in Terminal B really do a lot to liven the place up and break up the monotony.

Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Dec 19, 2021 at 5:49 PM. Reason: please use hyperlinks for off topic unsourced images
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  #3263  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 4:09 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Originally Posted by galleyfox View Post
Cheap connectivity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dining and shopping

Vast majority of Americans: 5 stars for $100 direct flight and McDonald’s
Exactly. This is why airports being able to cash in on retail lease revenue instead of depending so heavily on airline fees is ideal for the American traveler. Airline fees get passed through to the entire flying public whereas retail fees get passed through to... the people who use the retail. These airline fees vary wildly from city to city and are part of the equation airlines use when deciding whether to grow at ORD vs IAH vs DEN etc. For example, why route connections through ORD when it will cost 30% less to route them through DEN?

Emphasizing retail and dining is also ideal for extracting as much revenue as possible out of passengers not actually visiting Chicago but only sticking around for a few hour layover. Not only is that lease revenue for the airport its tax revenue for the city.

London Heathrow for example collects more in retail revenue than O'Hare collects in total revenue.
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  #3264  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2021, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
I just do not understand American design/construction pricing but in particular NYC pricing. Looks rather ho-hum to be honest.

I still would have preferred Fosters T2 design, but I am happy with Gang's T2 when comparing it to this 9.5b design.
I saw this as well. My brain can't compute $9.5b for one terminal. And the overhead view on that article - it doesn't even look that big...
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  #3265  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 12:29 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicagoguy View Post
British Airways is bringing the A380 back to Chicago beginning June 1, 2022.

“ British Airways has loaded the A380 from Heathrow to Boston, Chicago, and Washington for summer 2022.”

BA295 from June 1st: Heathrow-Chicago, 10:25-13:10, once-daily

BA294 from June 1st: Chicago-Heathrow, 17:05-06:50+1, once-daily

https://simpleflying.com/british-air...0-summer-2022/
Might sound like fun to someone who doesn't live under the 10L-28R flight approach lol. Most of the pedestrian jets don't bother us, but the 747s are pretty obnoxious at times. Regular 380s will be downright obnoxious. Hoping that our share of the air traffic will drop now that all the runways are open.

Interestingly enough, I've seen AN-124s fly in over our house multiple times. They don't seem to be as loud as the 747s, but you don't see them very often. It's probably mainly the freighter 747s coming screaming in laden with cargo that causes their thunderous roar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
Curious, why such animosity against the place (and to clarify, not you specifically, but from others who've expressed the same feelings in the forum)?
I don't get it either, I've literally never had an issue with O'Hare since I moved to Chicago. From our new place (two-three blocks from Montrose Blue Line) we can be at our gate in an hour if we don't hit major security delays. I don't even have pre check and I have maybe waited 30 mins in line once or twice at O'Hare.

I think O'Hare gets a bad rap because it's basically a layover graveyard for the whole country. So many flights are routed through here that passengers just end up getting dumped here whenever the flight system experiences rolling disruptions. Bad weather in the Rockies? You get a bunch of disgruntled westerners pissed they are stuck at O'Hare. Noreaster takes down the Atlantic seaboard for a day or two? You get a bunch of surly Bahstoners grumping about how shitty OHare is while guzzling margs at Frontera.
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  #3266  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Might sound like fun to someone who doesn't live under the 10L-28R flight approach lol. Most of the pedestrian jets don't bother us, but the 747s are pretty obnoxious at times. Regular 380s will be downright obnoxious. Hoping that our share of the air traffic will drop now that all the runways are open.
We live DIRECTLY under the 10L-28R flight path, as in the big planes literally fly right over our 3-flat, and I love watching the jumbos coming in all day long, and am very excited to see that the whale will soon be returning to ORD!

Then again, I'm about 3 miles east of you and perhaps the engine noise is worse when the planes are a bit lower over by you?
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  #3267  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 2:09 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
We live DIRECTLY under the 10L-28R flight path, as in the big planes literally fly right over our 3-flat, and I love watching the jumbos coming in all day long, and am very excited to see that the whale will soon be returning to ORD!

Then again, I'm about 3 miles east of you and perhaps the engine noise is worse when the planes are a bit lower over by you?
Yeah they are probably only 1000' off the ground by us, not bone shaking by any means, but I'd be lying if the morning rush doesn't work as an involuntary alarm at times. It's one thing when it's just a couple jets, but sometimes it's like 747s one after the other every 90 seconds for an hour.
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  #3268  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 3:12 AM
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^ the other thing working against the jet noise being bothersome over by me is the brown line trains that roll down our alley every several minutes. They're considerably louder than any plane in the sky heading into ORD (though much shorter lived).

not even a mighty A380 @ 1,500' can compete with the roar of an el train on elevated steel structure rolling down your alley.
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  #3269  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post

Incidentally, has anyone seen the renderings of the new terminal design at JFK? Fuckin WOOF

https://www.archpaper.com/2021/12/ge...ional-airport/
WOOF, indeed. I don't know why, but it gives me a '80s vibe. Kind of Legoland meets Costco.
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  #3270  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 6:47 AM
DePaul Bunyan DePaul Bunyan is offline
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
As much as I understand the issues the airport presents based on people's comments, to me airports are liminal spaces; it's a transitional space, you're in and you're out. Perhaps I personally just don't care about what an airport terminal can offer, but I get the frustrations...that's why I always travel very light (one bag at most), and have to be very sedated right before and during a flight due to high anxiety, so I just don't care about my surroundings..I just wanna get to my destination and back.

The new main terminal will hopefully correct a lot of the issues that people are talking about, as well as changes to T5 and even T1 (as well as connectivity between T1 and the new Global terminal).

Incidentally, has anyone seen the renderings of the new terminal design at JFK? Fuckin WOOF

https://www.archpaper.com/2021/12/ge...ional-airport/
The problem is that once you've been to modern airports, particularly overseas, you realize how much ORD sucks. The lounge game is weak. It's crowded, noisy, the bathrooms are pretty gross, it's not a space that's conducive to relaxation and low stress levels. And good concessions and amenities drive revenue. A pleasant airport will make people want to arrive early and walk around, shop, eat, visit lounges, etc. ORD is outclassed in terms of the passenger experience by basically any other major (say top-30 domestic) airport with the exception of HNL. There should be triple the amount of lounges and restaurants given O'hare's size and a significant retail presence, including premium/luxury. A good airport experience can help extend your leisure vacation and make the road warrior life much more bearable.
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  #3271  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 3:43 PM
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  #3272  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Regular 380s will be downright obnoxious.
This might sound like a naïve - if wonky - question, but how does the 380 engines sound compared to the old 747s? Or any other older aircraft still flying into O'Hare these days??? I'm just wondering if it might not be that bad given the technology advancement to make engines quieter over the years. . . maybe 4 massive engines are just gonna do what 4 massive engines do regardless. . .

. . .
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  #3273  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 6:11 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Originally Posted by DePaul Bunyan View Post
The problem is that once you've been to modern airports, particularly overseas, you realize how much ORD sucks. The lounge game is weak. It's crowded, noisy, the bathrooms are pretty gross, it's not a space that's conducive to relaxation and low stress levels. And good concessions and amenities drive revenue. A pleasant airport will make people want to arrive early and walk around, shop, eat, visit lounges, etc. ORD is outclassed in terms of the passenger experience by basically any other major (say top-30 domestic) airport with the exception of HNL. There should be triple the amount of lounges and restaurants given O'hare's size and a significant retail presence, including premium/luxury. A good airport experience can help extend your leisure vacation and make the road warrior life much more bearable.
Anyway, I'm pretty confident that once the Terminal 1 satellite gates are built those will be a better place to spend time if you're a United flier. And once the new Terminal-2 is built, Ohare will be the best major airport in the U.S. There's not going to be a better place in the U.S. to fly into and connect from internationally, from a baggage-handling and getting to your flight point of view. And I expect that the terminal experience itself will be top notch I'm not sure if it will really have any competition.
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  #3274  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
In the U.S., Detroit's newest terminal is pretty good. The new LaGuardia terminal is not bad. Midway's new dining hall in Terminal-A was a major upgrade. And the addition of the bars in the center of the concourses in Terminal B really do a lot to liven the place up and break up the monotony.
I really liked the new Terminal B at LGA, or Terminal C at EWR. Terminal 1 at SFO is also great.
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  #3275  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2021, 4:43 AM
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
Anyway, I'm pretty confident that once the Terminal 1 satellite gates are built those will be a better place to spend time if you're a United flier. And once the new Terminal-2 is built, Ohare will be the best major airport in the U.S. There's not going to be a better place in the U.S. to fly into and connect from internationally, from a baggage-handling and getting to your flight point of view. And I expect that the terminal experience itself will be top notch I'm not sure if it will really have any competition.
Agreed. Even watching the WGN clip on terminal 5 gives me hope. I am actually excited to see what Terminal 5 looks like a year from now with these new amenities. Once the terminal expansions are compete, O'Hare will indeed be a beast to contend with. I still think they need a Portillo's somewhere in one of the terminals...
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  #3276  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2021, 6:38 AM
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Flair To Launch New York And Chicago Services

“Flair Airlines is adding routes to two new destinations in the US as it continues to grow its transborder network.

Flights from Toronto Pearson (YYZ) to New York John F Kennedy (JFK) will begin on April 7, followed by service to Chicago O’Hare (ORD) on May 17.

The nonstop service to New York will initially be twice a week, ramping up to 4X-weekly effective May 16. Toronto-Chicago will receive three flights per week.“

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...cago-services/
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  #3277  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2021, 4:59 PM
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I'd prefer that Flair added a flight to Edmonton since there are already plenty of flights between Chicago and Toronto, though I don't know what the demand is like.
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  #3278  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2021, 5:13 PM
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I'd prefer that Flair added a flight to Edmonton since there are already plenty of flights between Chicago and Toronto, though I don't know what the demand is like.
If I'm not mistaken, flights to YYZ are Chicago's biggest international destination in terms of passengers. . . someone more familiar with this data can correctly me if I'm wrong. . .

. . .
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  #3279  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2021, 6:13 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, flights to YYZ are Chicago's biggest international destination in terms of passengers. . . someone more familiar with this data can correctly me if I'm wrong. . .

. . .
Sorry, I meant the the demand between Edmonton and Chicago . There's clearly plenty of demand between Chicago and Toronto (looks like there are 10 flights today between ORD and YYZ between 3 carriers, plus 2 from MDW to YTZ on Porter. Some of these are pretty small planes but still...).
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  #3280  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2021, 6:17 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, flights to YYZ are Chicago's biggest international destination in terms of passengers. . . someone more familiar with this data can correctly me if I'm wrong. . .

. . .
Going by 2019 stats, the last full pre-covid year available, London was #1 from ORD and Toronto was #2. Both were a large margin ahead of #3, Cancun.

1. London - 1,217,163
2. Toronto - 1,005,811
3. Cancún - 679,669
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