Is NYC the most geopolitically diverse city in the US?

[eschaton]

We discussed this in another thread. In a modern shorthand I think a white ethnic is:

1. A white person.

2. Lives in a city or inner-ring suburb.

3. Is not from the professional class.

4. Speaks with an identifiable regional accent.

[Docere]

The term "white ethnic" came into parlance in the 1960s. You had JFK's election in 1960, a breakthrough for non-WASP America. There was a famous sociological study, Beyond the Melting Pot, which studied ethnic groups in NYC and argued that the melting pot theory didn't really apply in New York. You had also the ethnic revival movement and a backlash to the civil rights movement among working class "ethnic" whites in northeastern and rust belt cities.

Interestingly "WASP" came into parlance as well around this time. Digby Baltzell, who studied Philadelphia's upper class, is credited for popularizing this term.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by eschaton

We discussed this in another thread. In a modern shorthand I think a white ethnic is:

1. A white person.

2. Lives in a city or inner-ring suburb.

3. Is not from the professional class.

4. Speaks with an identifiable regional accent.

What about Italian Americans in the NYC area, many of whom live in far-flung suburban sprawl, many have college degrees, but retain a sort of distinctive, culturally conservative politics? They aren't WWC, but they vote like it.

[Docere]

Just had a look at some Chicago-area results. In Cook County, 4 townships went R (Norwood Park as well as three others in the SW). All have large Polish populations.

And yet in DuPage - the historic bastion of white-collar suburban Republicanism - the D trend of affluent suburban whites was evident. Every single township went D.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

Just had a look at some Chicago-area results. In Cook County, 4 townships went R (Norwood Park as well as three others in the SW). All have large Polish populations.

Didn't Barrington township up in the far NW corner of cook also go red in 2020?

Here's the precinct level map from 2020:

Originally Posted by Docere

And yet in DuPage - the historic bastion of white-collar suburban Republicanism - the D trend of affluent suburban whites was evident. Every single township went D.

After lake county, IL (+24.1), I think Dupage county (+18.1) might've been the 2nd bluest fully suburban county in the interior of the nation.

A stunning turnaround for what was once one of the GOP's staunchest and most reliable counties

[Docere]

Barrington was narrowly D (51-47) and trended D.

[Docere]

Article on Chicago "white ethnics" from 1989. Even then they struggled to define the term:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...015-story.html

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

Barrington was narrowly D (51-47) and trended D.

Wow, I guess most of the people in Barrington live in those few blue precincts.

Which makes some sense as a lot of Barrington is very sparsely-populated 5-acre horse "farms".

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

A stunning turnaround for what was once one of the GOP's staunchest and most reliable counties

Yeah, while Chicago and Cook were always a big Democratic bastion, the collar counties were really Republican. In some ways not different from Milwaukee's suburbs today. Even Barry Goldwater won DuPage in 1964 when he was bombing pretty much everywhere in the North!

1968 to 1988 (the days of Republican dominance), Illinois is R in every election, thanks to the collar counties (seeing Iowa go D and Illinois R in 1988 is wild!). Illinois has been D since 1992 as R shares start to taper off in the collar counties - Clinton ekes out a narrow victory in Lake County in 1996. In 2008 Illinois becomes a D fortress due to Obama effect and DuPage goes D for the first time since 1852 (corrected). And the Trumpist turn of the GOP is a terrible fit for the collar counties.

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yeah, while Chicago and Cook were always a big Democratic bastion, the collar counties were really Republican. In some ways not different from Milwaukee's suburbs today. Even Barry Goldwater won DuPage in 1964 when he was bombing pretty much everywhere in the North!

Obama was the first Democrat to win DuPage and Kane Counties since Franklin Pierce.

Not the 1912 Bull Moose split, not FDR's four landslides, not LBJ. DuPage and Kane both stay red from 1856 to 2004.

As an aside, that wasn't even the longest Republican streak in Illinois: Edwards County last voted Democratic for Andew Jackson in 1832. Ogle County (Rochelle) has never voted for a Democrat, being formed in 1836 and missing the Jackson elections.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

And the Trumpist turn of the GOP is a terrible fit for the collar counties.

Yeah, of the 6 counties that directly border cook county, trump only won 1 of them, McHenry county, and that was only barely.

Cook: +50.3

Lake (IL): +24.1
Dupage: +18.1
Lake (IN): +15.1
Kane: +14.4
Will: +8.4
Mchenry: +2.5


Of course, trump easily won some of the more further flung sparsely-populated corn counties in the MSA like Grundy, Newton, and Jasper, but they aren't really part of "Chicagoland", despite what the commuter percentages might say.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Docere

Article on Chicago "white ethnics" from 1989. Even then they struggled to define the term:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...015-story.html

Pretty clear that it means the newer waves of arrivals from Southern Europe and Eastern Europe who, due to having arrived more recently, kept their traditions more, and had more concentrated neighborhoods, than earlier non-WASP immigrants.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Docere

What about Italian Americans in the NYC area, many of whom live in far-flung suburban sprawl, many have college degrees, but retain a sort of distinctive, culturally conservative politics? They aren't WWC, but they vote like it.

I understand what you mean here. There's recognizable pockets of very "White ethnic" as far down as the Jersey Shore. Many of those people actually are from NYC or somewhere very close by to begin with however.

[Crawford]

For whatever reason, NYC region is more overtly white ethnic-y than other metros. Even compared to Philly and Boston. You're informed of someone's background within 5 minutes of meeting them, and, if not, you can probably figure it out. A higher share of cultural legacy is retained.

[Lost Island]

Originally Posted by Docere

In the suburbs, you have some insular "New Yawkish" enclaves in Long Island. Nassau and Suffolk are quite Republican for major NE suburban counties.

We just proved it. Handed over the House to the Repubs a month ago. LI is still full of white-flighters and their descendants to an extent. I live close to Levittown, and it's very much like Staten Island in its conservative tendency. Lot of city cops live out here. People out here seem to be uniquely 'urbaphobic'. Any building over 5 stories and there's the fear we'll become an inner city ghetto. Hence, this is the reason for my username tweak, Lost Island. Still holds true 20 years running now.

[Docere]

Top 5 European ancestry groups (2021 1-year estimates):


New York

1. Italian 2,164,967 11%
2. Irish 1,686,529 8.5%
3. German 1,123,462 5.7%
4. Polish 663,941 3.4%
5. English 610,442 3.1%

Chicago

1. German 1,303,172 13.7%
2. Irish 966,199 10.2%
3. Polish 732,131 7.7%
4. Italian 574,683 6%
5. English 483,774 5.1%


Philadelphia

1. Irish 1,031,599 16.6%
2. German 850,990 13.7%
3. Italian 737,153 11.8%
4. English 483,236 7.8%
5. Polish 261,238 4.2%

Boston

1. Irish 950,095 19.4%
2. Italian 554,022 11.3%
3. English 501,806 10.2%
4. French/French Canadian 316,563 6.5%
5. German 270,065 5.5%

[Docere]

NYC has the most "ethnic" population. Italian is the largest white ancestry group. There are about 2 million Jews in the NYC metro; about half of NHWs in the region are Italian American or Jewish.

Irish is #1 in Boston and Philadelphia. Italian is #3 in the Philadelphia metro, there is actually more German ancestry than Italian in the Philadelphia area (though not in the city or Delaware County). WASPs aren't precisely defined, but there are probably more WASPs in metro Boston than Italian Americans.

German is #1 in Chicago, as is typical of the Midwest.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

Chicago

1. German 1,303,172 13.7%
2. Irish 966,199 10.2%
3. Polish 732,131 7.7%
4. Italian 574,683 6%
5. English 483,774 5.1%

my two kids are 7th generation german-chicagoan (from my maternal side), 6th generation irish/english-chicagoan (from my paternal side), and 5th generation italian-chicagoan (from my wife, she's 100% italian descent).

if either of them should ever end up with a polish-chicagoan (a very distinct possibility here), then holy shit, the ultimate white ethnic chicagoan shall be born!!!

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Crawford

For whatever reason, NYC region is more overtly white ethnic-y than other metros. Even compared to Philly and Boston. You're informed of someone's background within 5 minutes of meeting them, and, if not, you can probably figure it out. A higher share of cultural legacy is retained.

You have some rather extreme "sorting" of white ethnic neighborhoods in NYC.

There's other visible pockets like Italian American South Philly or Chicago's NW Side Polish concentrations (bolstered by 80s/90s immigration) but not to the same degree.

[Docere]

If my Chicago history is accurate, I'm guessing your mother's family is from the North Side and your father's from the South Side.