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  #2681  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
Late last night, I travelled it for the first time and my bus slowed to <20km/h to cross it. Barely heard anything. I had a particularly lead-footed driver (a separate problem that needs addressing) so I would imagine operators are being instructed to slow down as a temporary(?) solution.
Seems like a reasonable solution. Doesn't add that much time to the trip.
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  #2682  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 1:37 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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I guess everyone can be forgiven for not knowing how noisy a baily bridge is. There aren't many in the world today, compared to a couple decades ago.

Where I grew up, a river floods quite frequently, and the MTO's solution was to install a baily bridge that could be 'thrown away' and reinstated quickly every time there was a flood. This was a highway baily bridge. In the 90's we got an 'upgrade' from wood to steel deck...it was very loud.

I'm sure if you told the neighbours this story about the loud buses going 20km/hr, they'd laugh and laugh.

But aside aside, what if we covered the bridge with high-density rubber mats? Too much additional load?
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  #2683  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
I guess everyone can be forgiven for not knowing how noisy a baily bridge is. There aren't many in the world today, compared to a couple decades ago.

Where I grew up, a river floods quite frequently, and the MTO's solution was to install a baily bridge that could be 'thrown away' and reinstated quickly every time there was a flood. This was a highway baily bridge. In the 90's we got an 'upgrade' from wood to steel deck...it was very loud.

I'm sure if you told the neighbours this story about the loud buses going 20km/hr, they'd laugh and laugh.

But aside aside, what if we covered the bridge with high-density rubber mats? Too much additional load?
There was a bailey bridge on Highway 17 between Deep River and Mattawa for the past couple years, and it made no noise at all. This issue seemed to be a specific issue with the installation here.

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A bit hard to see here, but the concrete square in the middle is the roof of the first section of tunnel in this area.
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  #2684  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
There was a bailey bridge on Highway 17 between Deep River and Mattawa for the past couple years, and it made no noise at all. This issue seemed to be a specific issue with the installation here.



A bit hard to see here, but the concrete square in the middle is the roof of the first section of tunnel in this area.
Thanks for pointing that out. Looks thick? Not sure what's going on there. How deep will the soil be between the park and roof?
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  #2685  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Thanks for pointing that out. Looks thick? Not sure what's going on there. How deep will the soil be between the park and roof?
To make sure we're on the same page, the tunnel is straight across the street from the red entrance to the Honda dealership. If you look closely, you can see the two portals side by side. The traveler, posted earlier in the thread, is currently inside the tunnel so it's not super clear in this picture.

There's probably 2-3m of fill above the tunnel, enough for the existing utilities.
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  #2686  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
To make sure we're on the same page, the tunnel is straight across the street from the red entrance to the Honda dealership. If you look closely, you can see the two portals side by side. The traveler, posted earlier in the thread, is currently inside the tunnel so it's not super clear in this picture.

There's probably 2-3m of fill above the tunnel, enough for the existing utilities.
Yup, that's what I was looking at. I guess it's the traveler that I'm seeing that looks like half the tunnel height.

So 2-3 meters, we think that will be enough for trees to take root? Enough to restore the park to what it was (in 20 years once trees grow back to their full size)?
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  #2687  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 6:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
Late last night, I travelled it for the first time and my bus slowed to <20km/h to cross it. Barely heard anything. I had a particularly lead-footed driver (a separate problem that needs addressing) so I would imagine operators are being instructed to slow down as a temporary(?) solution.
I can confirm when I crossed it for the first time on Sunday the bus slowed to a near crawl. I would imagine the turn in and turn out on either end of the bridge would be just as much of a reason as noise. There isn't a lot of room to play with there.

Slow down as much as you need. Won't bother me.
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  #2688  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2022, 1:11 AM
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Council approves $60M more for O-Train Stage 2 budgets
Councillors unanimously supported staff's plan to replenish a contingency fund nearing depletion, in part to pay for changes prompted by Confederation Line experience.

Taylor Blewett, Ottawa Citizen
Jul 06, 2022 • 20 minutes ago • 3 minute read


Council voted Wednesday to add $60 million to the utility and contingency budgets of the Stage 2 O-Train project as the inquiry into its troubled first phase of LRT in Ottawa chugged toward its conclusion.

Before unanimously supporting staff’s plan to replenish a contingency fund nearing depletion, in part to pay for changes prompted by Confederation Line experience, council members had questions about how the city would and could respond to the final report by the independent commission leading the Stage 1 LRT inquiry.

That report and its findings, conclusions and potential recommendations is due by Aug. 31, but the deadline could be pushed to Nov. 30 with approval of Ontario’s transportation minister.

Coun. Shawn Menard wanted to know how those recommendations would be implemented locally for Stage 2 and 3 of the O-Train project (the former is under construction, while the latter has yet to be funded).

Commission recommendations may be directed at the city, but staff will also review them and bring anything relevant to council, city solicitor David White said. As for whether that would occur during this council term or the next one starting Nov. 15 or both, White said he believed they needed to wait to see the recommendations to figure that out.

Coun. Catherine McKenney asked if it would be possible for this council to request an inquiry into Stage 2, “given what we know today about phase one, but certainly if the report comes back and the recommendations come back, and they are as damning as what it would seem they’re going to be.”

It appears likely that council will become subject to “lame duck” status next month — a set of spending and other rules that would activate unless three-quarters of council members have confirmed re-election runs for office in the Oct. 24 municipal vote. Already, seven of council’s 24 members say they’re not running again.

City clerk Rick O’Connor said a request for another inquiry may be entirely possible for this council. “However … there may be a sense that it is more appropriate for the incoming council, who would probably have more to say about it. They may want to review it first.”

“I hear that,” McKenney replied, “but this is the council that was led into the decision (to approve the Stage 2 contract with SNC-Lavalin) not knowing that they had not met the technical requirement. So, as a member of this council, I certainly have grave concerns that I was misled before I voted on that contract.”

Stage 2 consists of eastern and western Confederation Line expansion by Kiewit and Vinci and a southern Trillium Line extension by SNC-Lavalin.

Of the $152.5-million contingency fund set by council for the $4.6-billion Stage 2 project, a staff report says $132 million has already been committed, largely for project improvements that weren’t contemplated when the fund was established.

These contingency commitments were sorted into four categories, one of which was design improvements and lessons learned from Stage 1. This includes expansion of the Walkley Yard storage and maintenance facility, an upgrade to gas switch heaters from electric, improvements to access at several east-end stations and noise mitigations at locations in the west, city O-Train construction director Michael Morgan said Wednesday.

With at least three years of Stage 2 construction remaining, staff said additional funding requirements would be assessed in 2023, over and above the $25-million contingency and $35-million utility fund injections granted Wednesday.

The extra $60 million would be covered by debt paid by development charges, reserves attached to a related watermain project at Cleary Avenue and debt assigned to the transit department.

Morgan said it was “impossible to know” at this time if more contingency funding might be needed as a result of the LRT inquiry.


With files from Jon Willing

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...tage-2-budgets
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  #2689  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2022, 11:53 AM
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Feds held back LRT Stage 2 money for months because of concerns with system
The city is still waiting on $120M from upper levels of governments for Confederation Line Stage 1

Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: Jul 14, 2022 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 4 hours ago


The federal government was so worried about issues concerning the Confederation Line earlier this year that it temporarily held back funding payments to the city for LRT Stage 2.

Infrastructure Canada "has delayed reimbursing Stage 2 claims submitted since the derailments and launch of the public inquiry in order to assess payment implications, including potential public sensitivity," according to a ministerial briefing note completed on March 23.

The government ultimately decided to pay the city's quarterly claim for the massive LRT extension project, and the city has told CBC the federal government has transferred all $576 million due so far for Stage 2.

But the documents paint a picture of concern about the LRT among federal officials.

No wonder.

The 12.5-kilometre east-west light rail system derailed twice last year, shutting down the service for months. That prompted two Transportation Safety Board of Canada investigations and led the province to impose new conditions on the city last November before it released the final $60 million in funding for the massive project.

Ontario Minister of Transportation Caroline Mulroney followed that up by calling a public inquiry into the Confederation Line, which is ongoing.

The transportation ministry said it won't comment until the inquiry concludes.
Feds looked at 4 'risks'

Officials at the Infrastructure Department, who oversee the $1.1 billion the federal government pledged to LRT Stage 2, drafted a list last November of four potential "risks" to the extension project. They were:
  • Alstom Citadis Spirit train: The light-rail vehicles operating on the existing Confederation Line have already been purchased for Stage 2. In 2017, the city agreed to buy an additional 38 vehicles for about $300 million, well in advance of the LRT trains being proven in service.
  • Potential design and construction issues: Infrastructure Canada pointed out that the city itself suggested in its notice of default that there could be design or construction issues with the Confederation Line. The ongoing inquiry has revealed that train-maker Alstom believes the sharp curves on the track have contributed to the August 2019 derailment, although the theory is being disputed by Rideau Transit Group (RTG).
  • Relationship woes between city and SNC-Lavalin: The Montreal-based engineering giant SNC-Lavalin is one of the key partners in RTG — along with ACS Infrastructure and Ellis Don — and is the sole contractor for the Trillium Line Stage 2 extension. In its document, Infrastructure Canada points out that the city and SNC-Lavlain were "having difficulty reaching consensus on who is to blame for current Stage 2 schedule delays," adding that "recent escalations between city and RTG will not help."
  • Public sensitivity: The government was concerned about the public's "openly voiced frustration with the system," noting that the LRT had "garnered significant negative media attention."

By March 2022, officials appeared satisfied that "none of these linkages provide grounds for federal funds to be withheld for Stage 2 claims" but added that "future payments will be subject to ongoing monitoring." And they believed that the city had taken the appropriate measures, including by hiring external consultants TRA Associates, to get the system back on track.

Among the government's biggest concerns appeared to be the optics of the federal government continuing to pay the city for Stage 2, when there were so many big questions around Stage 1.

"There is potential for negative public reaction should it become publicized that Stage 2 payments are being made in the current context," the documents said.

The March briefing notes pointed out that the Stage 2 project is "notably delayed" and that even though the two stages of the LRT are distinct projects, that "is not so clear to the general public."

While LRT Stage 2 payments from the upper levels of government appear on track, the city is still waiting for the last $120 million for Stage 1.

The provincial and federal governments each pledged $600 million to the first stage. Because of the way the funding was devised, the federal contributions cannot exceed those of the province. That means if the province is holding back its last $60 million, then the federal government has to do the same.

However, according to the released documents, Infrastructure Canada supported the letter form the province, as it "ensures that neither the remaining federal nor provincial funds for Stage 1 will flow until outstanding issues are addressed."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...rned-1.6517952
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  #2690  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2022, 11:27 PM
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Iris Overpass and Iris Station

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  #2691  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2022, 12:55 AM
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Kichi Sibi station site is now a big hole.

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  #2692  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2022, 4:17 PM
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Are busses using the temporary bridge at kichi sibi again? Has the sound issue been resolved?
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  #2693  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2022, 5:09 PM
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Are busses using the temporary bridge at kichi sibi again? Has the sound issue been resolved?
I think so, and I think I didn't really notice much sound. Though they were going across slowly. Took the 82 to tunneys for bluesfest.
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  #2694  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2022, 7:17 PM
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I think so, and I think I didn't really notice much sound. Though they were going across slowly. Took the 82 to tunneys for bluesfest.
Great, glad to hear it. Funneling all westbound buses through richmond road until 2025 would've been a disaster.
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  #2695  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2022, 8:36 PM
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I’ve seen a few workers fiddle with the underside of the bridge. Maybe they added some sort of dampeners on the joints because I haven’t heard any loud noises when I pass through there.
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  #2696  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 7:13 PM
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I’ve seen a few workers fiddle with the underside of the bridge. Maybe they added some sort of dampeners on the joints because I haven’t heard any loud noises when I pass through there.
It is much quieter now, whatever has been changed.

At times it sounded like a massive engine.
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  #2697  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 3:11 AM
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Richmond/Byron @ Ancaster Ave, July 16th, 2022.

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  #2698  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 11:32 AM
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Wow thanks for the pic! I think its the first time i see a pic of a fully formed cut and cover tunnel section on this project. Looks like a tight fit for the trains but its probably standard.
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  #2699  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 1:55 PM
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Interesting. Doesn't seem like there's room for a walkway in case train breaks down of for maintenance. And hoping that there's enough soil depth for mature trees.
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  #2700  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Interesting. Doesn't seem like there's room for a walkway in case train breaks down of for maintenance. And hoping that there's enough soil depth for mature trees.
I think that is an optical illusion and the tunnel is bigger than it appears. The digger is much closer and thus looks bigger, but if you look at objects that are a similar distance away for perspective.

Last edited by roger1818; Jul 20, 2022 at 7:44 PM. Reason: fixed autocorrect spelling error.
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