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Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte
Yeah I'd mostly agree to that. I do thnk Edmonton has been pivoting in culture, politics, and identity over the last 10 years. Although I think in some ways that has moved the city away from Winnipeg, but in other ways towards.
Winnipeg is pretty good at not trying to be something it isn't. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it comes with a certain groundedness, but it can also be limiting.
Calgary refuses to limit itself, but in doing so it can feel like it is striving to be whatever it can to retain status leading to that sense of shallowness.
I feel like in the late 90s/early 00s Edmonton managed to latch onto some of the negatives of both of these. Loosing relative status to Calgary, and the inertia that came with it - but still trying to hold onto something that that was fleeting. That was the period of the greatest Calgary aspirations. But out of that also developed a groundedness that I think draws it closer to Winnipeg, and away from Calgary. However, a period of (mostly) rapid growth and money also offsets the intertia and bolstered the more Calgary-like optimism and simultaneously pulls it away from Winnipeg in many ways.
Not to say Edmonton is some perfect balance- it still struggles to find that line - often awkwardly - but is getting better.
There are also historical/cultural histories with the zone of fur-trade/Métis/agriculture/Ukranian/catholic settlement influence that Edmonton and Winnipeg share compared to the ranching/dryland/Scottish/RCMP/American/protestant history that is more pronounced in southern Alberta. These don't dont fully address the complexities of any of these places in 2022, but they crafted the form and funciton of the social and political institutions that continue to influence them today.
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I'm not sure if you saw before I edited my post, but I changed some of what I originally stated that reflects:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ue
The youth and art scenes are a bit different too. Winnipeg feels more "alternative" and is full of wannabe '90s indie rockers. It's not like these kinds of people don't exist in Edmonton, but their social spaces aren't as prominent and the vibe doesn't pervade as strongly. I mean, Alberta's premier indie music festival isn't even in Edmonton, it's in Calgary. I think Edmonton had more of this in the past, but I was too young to be involved in it. The young people in Edmonton seem less punk now, and more aspirational, leaning towards glossier things. It's little things. In Edmonton, trendy ice cream places like Kind and Yelo'd have become a big deal for 20-somethings come spring whereas in Winnipeg you have classic ice cream institutions like Sargent Sundae and Bridge Drive-In. There's still trendy-bougie ice cream spots in Winnipeg, but they don't figure as prominently. These differences are subtle and not something you easily pick up on, but there seems to be a stronger bourgeois element in Edmonton that influences the local culture, including youth and arts. Politically, even though Edmonton is the more leftist hub for Alberta, Winnipeg is more leftist. Both have seen an uptick in radical, grassroots organizing, but it seems much more developed in Winnipeg. There's also a lot more postering and graffiti for political messaging than in Edmonton.
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I think we're mostly agreeing. There was a notable shift in Edmonton's vibe over the past 10 years, due to the boom, but before that there was a lot more similarities between Edmonton and Winnipeg. Both cities were plagued by a kind of inertia and a sense of inferiority due to being left in the dust by others. Although even Winnipeg isn't as stagnant as it was then, the overall vibe of that city now is still a lot more like those days than in Edmonton. You could argue that True North Square is a (massively) scaled down version of the Ice District, but the sheer difference in scale is still very important and says a lot about what's going on economically and culturally in both cities.
The crux of it is that Edmonton has become more outwardly bourgeois and you can tell its trying to be like Calgary a bit, even though it's really not going to happen. This has shifted the culture away from being more like Winnipeg's, which is a bit grimier (in a good way), as Edmontonians get enticed by trendy gimmicks. 15 years ago, both Edmonton and Winnipeg had their best days behind them, even if those periods were different (1900s-1910s and 1950s for Winnipeg; 1970s-1980s for Edmonton). Today, the difference is that Edmonton had a new period of innovation and growth that made people forget about looking back. Winnipeg is still looking back.
Overall, I think Edmonton is kind of a blend of Calgary and Winnipeg, with its own unique quirks as well. It has the money and drive of Calgary but lacks its boldness. Edmonton seems bolder than Winnipeg, but within the Alberta context it may as well still be Winnipeg 2. Edmonton still isn't Calgary and I don't think it ever will be, no matter how aspirational it gets, because Edmonton is still fundamentally a different place. Like you mention, there's the shared cultural history of the Parkland Prairies between Edmonton and Winnipeg, but there's also other thing too, like the blue collar undercurrents of both cities, the government-university-healthcare economic centrality, etc. Even if they've shaken off the dust, both cities are still has-beens. Winnipeg is not really peers with Vancouver, Calgary, or Edmonton anymore, and Edmonton is still less prominent than Calgary. Thus they both still have an inferiority complex, even if Edmonton has done a better job of hiding it lately. This doesn't have to be a bad thing either; Montreal is a has-been relative to Toronto, but its arguably one of the best cities on the continent as a result.
You pick up on another important thing regarding Winnipeg: its groundedness. Winnipeg knows what it is, and has a better sense of place as a result. I don't know if Edmonton knows exactly what it is yet, but it isn't as successful as Calgary or Toronto at being limitless. But you're right, this groundedness can make Winnipeg a bit more limited and willing to rest on its laurels.
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