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  #7261  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2022, 11:23 PM
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I agree w SOME of the above, however I was barely able to get a seat at Pho Huoang on Portage today at noon. So there are people downtown.

My walk yesterday by Air Canada park, was a completely different experience, was very disappointed
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  #7262  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2022, 11:55 PM
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Another positive note: I called around to book apartment tours for several of the downtown towers - 225 Carlton,Smith Street Lofts, and similar. In several cases, the suites we wanted are 100% leased or was told there was only one left.

No denying downtown is looking very threadbare, but there does seem to have been an influx of people drawing decent salaries.
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  #7263  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 1:14 AM
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I have a feeling the new reality with gasoline and energy prices in general are going to add forward momentum to downtown’s attractiveness in the coming years.
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  #7264  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
I agree w SOME of the above, however I was barely able to get a seat at Pho Huoang on Portage today at noon. So there are people downtown.

My walk yesterday by Air Canada park, was a completely different experience, was very disappointed
I'll say it once again. They need to bulldoze that park and put a building up right to the sidewalk.
I believe TV said that there was some kind of plan in place though still apparently as a park. Bad plan IMHO.
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  #7265  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 4:07 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Just back from US on work trip, spent the last two days in Fargo on some R&R, no potholes on any of their well maintained streets, this BS about clay soil and climate doesn't bear much weight here when they have the exact same conditions!
Having lived and worked in the U.S. for a few years I can tell you difference.

Government healthcare.

The St.Regis hotel alone in it's prime of 10 ambulance rides a day for it's patrons cost the system $5 million a year.

Canadian provinces spend greater than 50% of their budget on healthcare, Americans don't. Hence they have nicer roads and a better armed military.

I can also tell you how much crappier the road is in BC going into Vancouver than I-5 flowing south into Seattle.

Washington state has no state income tax. Zero. You keep every penny you make. But, you also pay a crazy sales tax on everything to maintain those beautiful freeways plus road tolls and $370 a month for private health insurance (that only covers you in three states) with a $15,000 deductible.

Get sick outside your coverage zone and you are seriously boned. At least half the people I know in Seattle have no health insurance. Their plan is to go bankrupt and permanently torch their credit history.

Also, you can only pull that trick once. The next time you need a doctor you will be turned away.
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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Jun 3, 2022 at 4:38 AM.
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  #7266  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 5:44 AM
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I can't blame you. I recently went back to the office on a part time basis and downtown is in atrocious shape. Even if you wanted to spend money and help reinvigorate it, there's hardly anywhere to do it. The major retailers are all gone, the streets are lined with empty units. It's dead at all times, even in the middle of the day the sidewalks and skywalks are empty.

I had kind of accepted long ago that downtown Winnipeg wasn't going to become urbanist nirvana, but I never thought it would reach these depths. The next step down is basically large-scale abandonment, at least we aren't there. Yet.

I honestly think we're getting close to a point where it'll be beyond repair. I never would have said that 5 years ago, but I suppose I have to face reality here.
The city of Winnipeg on the whole is completely dysfunctional and has been hijacked by special interest groups including both the police and fire unions, it’s sad to see neighbourhood parks that were once well maintained even 15-20 years ago become ragged and untended.

Certain streets are in such bad shape that it looks like the city has just given up.
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  #7267  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg View Post
I'll say it once again. They need to bulldoze that park and put a building up right to the sidewalk.
I believe TV said that there was some kind of plan in place though still apparently as a park. Bad plan IMHO.
There is currently an RFP out for Design Consultant.

https://www.centreventure.com/news/rfp
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  #7268  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 3:51 PM
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I wish it were otherwise but urbanism is quickly approaching its limit as a solution for general societal decay. Throwing up more towers is just a recipe for islands of extreme wealth amid oceans of poverty. Someone mentioned favelas and yes...this is the Brazilian model.

A bit of a sidebar but I think the origins are worth exploring, from an economic/material perspective...

The 'golden era' of North American cities emerged from the postwar détente between big business and labour, when a relatively decent life was possible with a high school education. Both sides advocated for their interests and kept one another in check. A healthy welfare state minimized precariousness. Not a perfect system but this is generally seen as the high point. The elites of the postwar consensus understood that the lower class must be afforded a certain quality of life or it would lead to general societal chaos and abandonment of faith in the system. Sound familiar?

In the 70s/80s this balance fell drastically out of wack when business and right-wing politicians began a full-on assault on labour and welfare, (prompted by what some would consider overreach by the unions) based on a theoretical belief that the free market would self-regulate, and in doing so, solve social problems (think Reagan's "trickle down", Thatcher's "there's no such thing as society, only individuals").

Since this began, economic inequality has massively increased, organized labour membership has been decimated to an all-time low, and welfare provisions have been slashed. As Warren Buffett admitted, there is class war, and "my class won." We are now at a point in history where it's impossible to understate how lopsided the balance of class power is. One side straight-up stopped fighting decades ago. "The people" have lost faith in the system, and cynicism is the order of the day. Organized labour once offered people purpose and pride in their community (think Labour Temples), whereas now it's more common to be a 'gig' worker, shuttling around Skip the Dishes, with absolutely no security or chance for community organizing.

I hope that the pendulum can swing back the other way. I think a new class compromise is the only way to a better city, but the professional class will have to give up ground. Higher taxes and less corporate handouts need to be on the table. This is not just a Winnipeg problem. The only way this situation gets better is by lifting up the whole. When I hear the Premier's glib response to Manitoba having the lowest minimum wage in Canada I get genuinely upset. What's the point of beautiful towers in downtown Winnipeg if the rest of it is an impoverished sewer?

Last edited by xubiqtss; Jun 3, 2022 at 4:10 PM.
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  #7269  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by xubiqtss View Post
I wish it were otherwise but urbanism is quickly approaching its limit as a solution for general societal decay. Throwing up more towers is just a recipe for islands of extreme wealth amid oceans of poverty. Someone mentioned favelas and yes...this is the Brazilian model.

A bit of a sidebar but I think the origins are worth exploring, from an economic/material perspective...

The 'golden era' of North American cities emerged from the postwar détente between big business and labour, when a relatively decent life was possible with a high school education. Both sides advocated for their interests and kept one another in check. A healthy welfare state minimized precariousness. Not a perfect system but this is generally seen as the high point. The elites of the postwar consensus understood that the lower class must be afforded a certain quality of life or it would lead to general societal chaos and abandonment of faith in the system. Sound familiar?

In the 70s/80s this balance fell drastically out of wack when business and right-wing politicians began a full-on assault on labour and welfare, based on a theoretical belief that the free market would self-regulate, and in doing so, solve social problems (think Reagan's "trickle down", Thatcher's "there's no such thing as society, only individuals").

Since this began, economic inequality has massively increased, organized labour membership has been decimated to an all-time low, and welfare provisions have been slashed. As Warren Buffett admitted, there is class war, and "my class won." We are now at a point in history where it's impossible to understate how lopsided the balance of class power is. "The people" have lost faith in the system, and cynicism is the order of the day. Organized labour once offered people purpose and pride in their community (think Workers Clubs), whereas now it's more common to be a 'gig' worker, shuttling around Skip the Dishes, with absolutely no security or chance for community organizing.

I hope that the pendulum can swing back the other way. I think a new class compromise is the only way to a better city, but the professional class will have to give up ground. Higher taxes and less corporate handouts need to be on the table. This is not just a Winnipeg problem. The only way this situation gets better is by lifting up the whole which is why when I hear the Premier's glib response to Manitoba having the lowest minimum wage in Canada I get genuinely upset. What's the point of beautiful towers in downtown Winnipeg if the rest of it is an impoverished sewer?
Very well put. Even if you are a wealthy guy who wants to get even wealthier, don't you ultimately want to live in a nice, functional city? I know some guys who run businesses heavily reliant on minimum wage-tier labour and the reactions you see when it gets raised... you'd think the government was taking the food directly out of their kids mouths. Meanwhile these guys already own multiple residences and every luxury you can imagine. I'm not begrudging them their hard-earned success, but there is something wrong with the picture when a guy with a 5,000 sf home is upset because he might have to pay his worker who shares a dingy one bedroom apartment a few extra bucks a month. But that is the mindset now, give me mine and screw everybody else... and it is giving us what we see on the streets. High end luxury cars and people living in bus shelters are both pretty much at an all time high now.

When I was a kid in the 80s many parts of town that people avoid now were quiet, working class neighbourhoods. North Main was kind of the "rough strip", but just about everywhere else was livable. The North End, West End, Point Douglas were down at the heels but still decent places to live. I had a lot of family and friends in those areas (the North End in particular) in the 80s... I spent an awful lot of time near Selkirk and Salter back then. Sure there were drugs, but nowhere near the current level of gang-run drug houses plaguing neighbourhoods. It is a different world now. It is truly bizarre to me that anyone could think that this is a desirable outcome. But here we are.
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  #7270  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2022, 9:22 PM
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^Add to that, no CEO needs to make 30 million dollars a year. Never mind 600 million. These salaries are grotesque and completely out of balance in a reasonable world. Especially when a few are making those salaries while simultaneously people are being let go due to cutbacks.

Greed - the third deadly sin.
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  #7271  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2022, 4:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg View Post
^Add to that, no CEO needs to make 30 million dollars a year. Never mind 600 million. These salaries are grotesque and completely out of balance in a reasonable world. Especially when a few are making those salaries while simultaneously people are being let go due to cutbacks.

Greed - the third deadly sin.
I’d be interested to know your feeling on others making $30 million a year. Most leftist immediately attack the person who is very well paid, but is directly responsible for the livelihood of hundreds or thousand of employees; plus their pensions. Meanwhile a guy makes $30 million a year to place a ball into a basket and it’s crickets.
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  #7272  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2022, 4:37 AM
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‘Higher taxes and less corporate handouts need to be on the table. This is not just a Winnipeg problem. The only way this situation gets better is by lifting up the whole which is why when I hear the Premier's glib response to Manitoba having the lowest minimum wage in Canada I get genuinely upset. ‘

Higher taxes kill investment and destroy incentives to the job creators. What corporate handouts do,you think are being given? How about we eliminate the payroll tax for starters and provide tax incentives for creating more jobs.
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  #7273  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2022, 6:52 PM
Lars65 Lars65 is offline
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Thats the trouble with the modern western left/right arguments, is that they lack nuance. All because a few nutty russkies got out of hand a hundred odd years ago. I mean take a country like Japan. CEO salaries are a fraction of NA standards, and few people are poor outside of personal choice. Hardly anyone would accuse them of being leftists, but somehow their corporate culture believes in societal good over gross profiteering. So instead of constantly framing the debate in a knee jerk 'leftism is evil' stance that western society has adopted since the early 1900s, perhaps we should engage in a more nuanced debate. It would certainly benefit society, just in and of itself.
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  #7274  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2022, 2:38 PM
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I am loving the discussion taking place on this thread over the past few days.

One thing I would add is that before the current "culture wars" era began, being "left" or "right" didn't mean what it does now. There was more nuance to each position. While being a communist was never a popular position, I believe in the cold war era was an entrenchment of a demonization of the left.

As an example, I offer the history of the governorship of Texas which we would all probably characterize as a republican stronghold. The truth is that the state has exclusively Democrat governors from 1859-1983 and then again from 1983-1995. Almost unthinkable in today's political climate.
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  #7275  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2022, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW View Post
I’d be interested to know your feeling on others making $30 million a year. Most leftist immediately attack the person who is very well paid, but is directly responsible for the livelihood of hundreds or thousand of employees; plus their pensions. Meanwhile a guy makes $30 million a year to place a ball into a basket and it’s crickets.
I don't think anyone needs to make 30 million dollars a year. Especially for throwing a basket or sliding a puck across the ice. Ridiculous. And yeah, I'm not paying $20 a beer to support such nonsense either.
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  #7276  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 12:12 PM
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  #7277  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 12:13 PM
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  #7278  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 12:15 PM
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  #7279  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 12:29 PM
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Sick!!!
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  #7280  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2022, 1:02 PM
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Holy shit, that is amazing. Been hearing the piles going in for weeks and have been so curious. Well done!
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