Portland Dining News

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by rsbear

Ok, you've got more water, you win.

Psst... I'm not from either of these cities. I'm just giving my own impressions as a (would-be) visitor.

[awg]

Any architect (or person interested in architecture) will probably agree that Seattle is "better" from a single building point of view. Or a cultural point of view. That's just the way it is. They have a huge, driving economy with Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks, etc. When they make money they distribute it among their shareholders and employees and create a lot of individual wealth that shows up in better funded museums, symphonies, colleges, pro sports teams, etc. So they have fancier (more expensive) buildings.

But that's not day to day life. Those are reasons--and good ones--to visit a place. But, personally, those aren't really reasons to live in a place. Every city has jobs. Every city has extra things to do in your life. Most people get to a point in their life where they would like to buy a nice house in a decent neighborhood and get to and from work painlessly so they can spend time with their family. That seems more difficult to do in Seattle. Its a stretch coming up with $300,000 for a place in Portland if you are under 30. But coming up with $500,000 in Seattle seems a hell of a lot more difficult for the average joe.

I also think Portland's downtown just feels more comfortable because of the scale. Unless you are really big and full of people (like New York or Chicago), its hard to get excited around a handful of very tall buildings. I think most people react to Portland simply because it seems accessible and easy to understand/navigate downtown.

[PDX City-State]

The numbers indicate dry tonnage, and it's fair to mention that Tacoma's port is also quite big.

[Eagle rock]

Seattle lacks a lot of the things that make a great cities: extensive rail based, mass transit system, vibrant multicultural neighborhoods, contiguously walkable urban neighborhoods. Portland is not quit there either; however I would say Portland is doing a much better job of developing in this manner then Seattle.

San Francisco on the other hand is one of the most ideal urban environments on the planet in my opinion. It has all the things listed above, plus incredible architecture, and one of the most dramatic settings of any city in the world. So I would have to agree that Portland is second string to San Francisco for now, but not Seattle.

[sopdx]

The article was about the dining scene in Portland. It really has nothing to do with Seattle, but give any one city credit, the other has to lash out. It's regional rivalry.

There is a huge difference between the cities - or with Portland and almost every other major American city. Seattle has become big and shiny, corporate, money driven. I lived there for years, loved it then, not so much now.

Portland is developing it's own groove - as the article points out. We have an amazing art and music scene, yet it's all approachable. We are attracting more and more people who admire our ethos. We're a role model, not a follower. The people coming here aren't microsoft goobs or corporate wanna be's, impressed with what's shiny. The city is comfortable with itself and becoming better and more urban. Portland doesn't try to be something else. Why should it? It will become a larger city, more vibrant and more cosmopolitan - it's already happening - but will hopefully do it on it's own terms.

[brandonpdx]

Can we just put an end to these stupid my city is better than your city arguments!? It has clearly been decided that Seattle is a better city because it has more water around it. end of story. Portland can build the tallest most iconic building in the world, have more pro teams, more museums, more recognized bands, more world renowned chefs and it will never be as good as Seattle; the Willamette and Columbia just can't hold as much water as the sound and lake Washington/Union ...sorry charlie.

[PacificNW]

⬆ Ha!Ha! I don't think Lake Washington should be compared to the Columbia River though (tongue in cheek)....maybe just the part that PDX sits next too but the Lake Washington setting is pretty special in its own right ...the urban development around Lake Washington is much more dense..plus the average price of a home at the lake must rank close to being the highest in Puget Sound. The Gate's pad is valued @ over $100 million. Little 'ole Portland is still a pretty cool city..along with its setting...

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by brandonpdx

Can we just put an end to these stupid my city is better than your city arguments!? It has clearly been decided that Seattle is a better city because it has more water around it. end of story. Portland can build the tallest most iconic building in the world, have more pro teams, more museums, more recognized bands, more world renowned chefs and it will never be as good as Seattle; the Willamette and Columbia just can't hold as much water as the sound and lake Washington/Union ...sorry charlie.

Maybe it's the strategic position on the sound that got the bigger city with the taller buildings, more sports teams, etc. to set up where Seattle is.

[PDX City-State]

Well perhaps the next time Eric Asimov, one of the most famous food and wine critics on the planet, writes a story about Portland's truly dynamic dining scene, he ought to consult Nutterbug first.

[PacificNW]

⬆ Right on! PDX City-State!!!

[Nutterbug]

Jesus Christ, what is with all the Portland defensiveness?

I'm not trying to put any city down. I'm just stating an objective opinion on a perceived reason as to how one locale could be disadvantaged to another in terms of habitation, commerce, etc., and geography's effect on it.

And for the record, "second string" is Asimov's words, not mine.

[rsbear]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Jesus Christ, what is with all the Portland defensiveness?

Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself (you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.

[PacificNW]

Nutterbug....why don't you reread your responses to this thread....you come off as being pretty biased towards our neighbor to the north. It was just an article written by someone who is respected in his field of expertise...

This Portland/Seattle thing is not unique. People in Portland hate their city being compared to Seattle when they feel Seattle represents everything they don't want Portland to evolve into. Make sense? Seattle has always strived to be a "World Class City". It's not that important to attain this status for those who call Portland home. (For the most part, I think.) There are some people who live in Seattle who seem to have an attitude that Seattle is a more desirable city to live, work, and play when compared to Portland and they proclaim this from the tops of their majestic downtown towers and corporate offices . Portland has an attitude that it is the best city in America for "correct" urban planning and having one of the best transit systems in the U.S. This, I am sure, annoys a lot of people. I have lived "many years" in both. They are both incredible cities. I think people want to love and enjoy the city they call home. When I lived in Dallas and Houston no one could say anything nice about the other...Those living in Dallas or Houston hate the other town. L.A./San Francisco? No love lost. San Francisco/Oakland? Same feelings. New York City/Boston?....Don't dare say you are a Yankee fan and live in Boston. Are you kidding me? What rivalry that Seattle/Portland comes no where the degree of rivalry as the fore mentioned cities. We just like to have fun with each other..

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by rsbear

Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself

Too bad you have to look at it that way. I just meant to inject a little reality and was expressing my perceived reason as to why popular opinion would put Seattle in a more favourable light, including that of the writer himself.

Originally Posted by rsbear

(you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.

I find it quite baffling that you Seattleites and Portlanders have this rivalry/animosity between you. I suppose having to share the same forum does that.

I'm from Vancouver BC, by the way, yet feel no need to get into a pissing match with nearby Seattle. I suppose good borders make good neighbours.

[tworivers]

We're kind of like a couple of brothers who are attached at the hip and are also cursed with very different personalities. Hence the grouchiness.

[SeattleHusky82]

Originally Posted by rsbear

Perhaps if you were to go back and read all the negative comments from the folks self-identified as being from Seattle, and the negative comments from yourself (you don't disclose your location) you would understand why the people in this forum that are from Portland are a little pissed. Portland gets nice press from the NY Times and you folks can't deal so you have to post a bunch put-downs to make yourselves feel better. Classic symptoms of insecurity.

For the record, I didn't mean to crash the party and bash Portland for no reason. I only posted after one of the posters took a cheap shot at Seattle with the "ouch...second string to Seattle" line and I simply asked what they meant by that and then all the Portland defensiveness/Seattle bashing came out.

[tworivers]

I only posted after one of the posters took a cheap shot at Seattle with the "ouch...second string to Seattle" line and I simply asked what they meant by that

Did I really start all of this?!

Sorry, but suggesting that Portland is "second string" to Seattle is so... 1999. A cheap shot was not my intention, though. Indeed, it was only a few months ago that I was singing Seattle's praises on this forum, after a bike-centric visit that I thoroughly enjoyed. In reality, each city plays "second string" to the other in different ways. And I think we've already elucidated these distinctions, so...

How about we discuss the PDX food scene? Anyone else in love with Toro Bravo?

[Black Box]

We're in the middle, does that mean we're the GLUE? Anyhow, I've lived in Portland and now reside in Seattle and who is to say that Seattle does not have its' own thing or that it was not developed on its' own terms? That's ridiculous! Ten, fifteen years ago, the writer would have inserted Seattle in that article. Today, it is Portland. I am not dismissive of Seattle or Portland's accomplishments. You see, we're all still debating about how a New York writer defines our cities. Not in totality, but certainly in the context of who the media giant, mover shaker is. Does that mean that a New York writer can decide the fate of said cities? Hell no! It's up for debate because of the scope a writer from New York has. It is a place of immense influence. What influences these rantings? I wonder what Mr. Asimov or Mr. Bruni would think reading these posts? Of course they take us into consideration, but in the end, we're left with ourselves. My take, Seattle and Portland are different, but I think they're much more alike than they are otherwise. We're blinking eyes.

[PacificNW]

Black Box...you're right. I have been around long enough to remember, and live through, all the positive press/top of the polls Seattle has received for over 20 years... Now, Portland, in the last few years, is getting its due press.

[PDX City-State]

Ten, fifteen years ago, the writer would have inserted Seattle in that article. Today, it is Portland.

Well put...Portland has become a media darling, as especially of the NY Times. It's always been great, but it's really only starting to move (quickly) toward its potential. Seattle is already there. When I walk through Seattle, I never look around and think about what could be...it's pretty much already there. In Portland, there's still a lot of possibility and finally downtown neighborhoods are being redeveloped. If you want a big urban scene, you're probably not going to get your city hard-on from Portland...that's why I go to Seattle once every two months or so...or better yet Vancouver. However, if you want to visit a city with a truly interesting and original vibe that's still feels a bit under-the-radar, has an urbane sensitivity, but hasn't yet been over-run with money (mark my works, this is going to happen very quickly), Portland is one of very few places. That, I guess, was the point of the article. Still, I agree with a lot of things Nutterbug said about Seattle. The water factor does create a "wowing" effect. To stand on the Seattle Waterfront and look at the Olympics over the sound conjures up a feeling that few cities on earth can offer. Portland, with its green and hilly topography that's surrounded by several large volcanoes, isn't exactly Des Moines though...and as brought out earlier in this thread, many of the worlds great cities are river cities. I don't think Portland can compare itself to places like Paris and Milan, but Lyon and Bilbao are fare game. We're not a first-tier city, and that's fine with me. At the same time, the days Portland lived in shadow of Seattle are absolutely over. We have our own thing going on, and it's pretty fucking unique. Still, I'm very happy to have Seattle so close. I love the feeling I get when I see the Seattle skyline from West Seattle. I also love the high-end boutiques and the fact that Seattle has a Rem Koolhaas building and an art museum that doesn't totally suck (designed by a Portland firm). So cheers bitches! to the NW...how many regions In North America have three diverse and unique urban centers each with such unique qualities? Plus, the coffee in Sea-Van-PDX is perhaps the best on earth, which was the subject of another New York Times article just two weeks ago.