PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Of course it's a stark difference, SEPA is the behemoth of the state and even the country population-wise. Dauphin Co. doesn't even have 300K people in it and is home to a small, poor city so of course there are going to be less million dollar home sales. But if there are 187 millionaires in Dauphin Co. and 100 of them shop at KOP regularly, how would I be overstating the wealth there and that is being drawn?

But it looks like we are all in agreement on the main point now.

Yes, we're in agreement. I definitely misread your initial comment, which is why I apologized. I'm sorry, haha! It sounded to me like you were implying that KOP does so well because of people to the North and West. I see now that you meant this is a bonus adding to people in the region. However, one could say KOP is a success because of bonus people added to the North, West, South and East, LOL. Lehigh Valley, Harrisburg/Lancster, South Jersey and Northern Delaware.

Yes basic math: far more people so the chance for far more millionaires.

Yes and no. On a percentage basis, Delaware, Chester, Montgomery and Berks have a greater share of millionares and $200K+ income households. The numbers aren't really close at all. Philadelphia is about on par with York and Dauphin counties. Lehigh, Northampton, Lancaster, Berks and Cumberland are slightly ahead on a percentage basis though. Funny though... I bet if you asked someome from Dauphin or York counties, they would say Philadelphia is a poor hellhole.

Percentage of Millionares
Lehigh - 0.08%
Northampton - 0.07%
Lancaster - 0.08%
York - 0.05%
Dauphin - 0.06%
Cumberland - 0.08%
Berks - 0.06%

Delaware - 0.22%
Chester - 0.32%
Montgomery - 0.32%
Bucks - 0.17%
Philadelphia - 0.05%

Percentage of $200K+ income households
Lehigh - 9%
Northampton - 9%
Lancaster - 8%
York - 6%
Dauphin - 6%
Cumberland - 7%
Berks - 8%

Delaware - 15%
Chester - 22%
Montgomery - 19%
Bucks - 17%
Philadelphia - 6%

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yes, we're in agreement. I definitely misread your initial comment, which is why I apologized. I'm sorry, haha! It sounded to me like you were implying that KOP does so well because of people to the North and West. I see now that you meant this is a bonus adding to people in the region. However, one could say KOP is a success because of bonus people added to the North, West, South and East, LOL. Lehigh Valley, Harrisburg/Lancster, South Jersey and Northern Delaware.

No worries and good discussion regardless! Ha ha for sure but from what I have seen there does seem to be a stronger draw from the north and west and it's a regular destination vs what may be coming from the east/south, probably because there are competing options east/south vs maybe not so much west/north (and maybe west/northwest would be more accurate).

Yes and no. On a percentage basis, Delaware, Chester, Montgomery and Berks have a greater share of millionares and $200K+ income households. The numbers aren't really close at all. Philadelphia is about on par with York and Dauphin counties. Lehigh, Northampton, Lancaster, Berks and Cumberland are slightly ahead on a percentage basis though. Funny though... I bet if you asked someome from Dauphin or York counties, they would say Philadelphia is a poor hellhole.

Percentage of Millionares
Lehigh - 0.08%
Northampton - 0.07%
Lancaster - 0.08%
York - 0.05%
Dauphin - 0.06%
Cumberland - 0.08%
Berks - 0.06%

Delaware - 0.22%
Chester - 0.32%
Montgomery - 0.32%
Bucks - 0.17%
Philadelphia - 0.05%

Percentage of $200K+ income households
Lehigh - 9%
Northampton - 9%
Lancaster - 8%
York - 6%
Dauphin - 6%
Cumberland - 7%
Berks - 8%

Delaware - 15%
Chester - 22%
Montgomery - 19%
Bucks - 17%
Philadelphia - 6%

Yes, as you don't have the same type of jobs and/or salaries in South Central PA.

[Jawnadelphia]

As mentioned on the prior page - new residential development for Market Street, Wilmington at 317 N. Market was presented and approved tonight.

This is a new BPG project, and DIGSAU is the architectural firm. 61 units spread across one building of varying heights of 4-6 floors.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Most Millionares

Lehigh - 318
Northampton - 223
Lancaster - 458
York - 247
Dauphin - 187
Cumberland - 224
Berks - 275

Delaware - 1,235
Chester - 1,745
Montgomery - 2,746
Bucks - 1,375
Philadelphia - 775

I’d love to know how this is computed. There are more than 775 millionaires in zip code 19106 alone.

[jonesrmj]

Avelo must be doing well at Wilmington Airport (ILG) because they just announced 9 new routes out of ILG, almost tripling the amount of routes from 5 to 14!

The new routes are:
Charleston, SC (CHS)
Daytona Beach, FL (DAB)
Greenville/Spartanburg, SC (GSP)
Melbourne, FL (MLB)
Myrtle Beach, SC (MYR)
Nashville, TN (BNA)
Raleigh/Durham, NC (RDU)
Savannah, GA (SAV)
Wilmington, NC (ILM)

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

Avelo must be doing well at Wilmington Airport (ILG) because they just announced 9 new routes out of ILG, almost tripling the amount of routes from 5 to 14!

The new routes are:
Charleston, SC (CHS)
Daytona Beach, FL (DAB)
Greenville/Spartanburg, SC (GSP)
Melbourne, FL (MLB)
Myrtle Beach, SC (MYR)
Nashville, TN (BNA)
Raleigh/Durham, NC (RDU)
Savannah, GA (SAV)
Wilmington, NC (ILM)

They just passed 10,000 Flights at Wilmington Airport which means they qualify for Fed Funding. Great news & shows the Metro Growing in a good way.

[202_Cyclist]

I flew on Avelo from New Haven - BWI on Monday morning. My ticket was $13 ($29 with taxes). The entire flight couldn't have been easier. I would think the passenger experience is probably similar out of Wilmington, DE.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Also not a perfect metric as real estate values can vary per region, but to help show the complete wealth disparity amongst these counties, here are the $1M+ dollar homes sales in the past 365 days:

Lehigh County - 15
Northampton County - 20
Lancaster County - 45
York County - 15
Dauphin County - 23
Cumberland County - 31
Berks Coutny - 20

Delaware County - 397
Chester County - 465
Bucks County - 436
Philadelphia County - 464
Montgomery County - 524

For good measure, here's the other counties in the Philadelphia Metro Area:

New Castle, DE - 90
Burlington, NJ - 85
Camden, NJ - 57
Gloucester, NJ - 7
Salem, NJ - 3

Thank you for putting this together. Super informative and would be interesting to track over time. Delco overperforming relative to where'd I'd expect it to be and Bucks underperforming.

Long term, I think Delaware County is going to be the most fully developed and expensive suburban county in the region. It's just too central and accessible to Philadelphia, Wilmington, KOP, Chesterbrook/Malvern, the airport, and transit not to be.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

I flew on Avelo from New Haven - BWI on Monday morning. My ticket was $13 ($29 with taxes). The entire flight couldn't have been easier. I would think the passenger experience is probably similar out of Wilmington, DE.

I can only wonder how much it would cost rom ILG to Ft Lauderdale. If it's that low just to travel to BWI from New Haven, just imagine how much money I could save just of a trip to FL! How was the seating and was the trip safe?

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

I can only wonder how much it would cost rom ILG to Ft Lauderdale. If it's that low just to travel to BWI from New Haven, just imagine how much money I could save just of a trip to FL! How was the seating and was the trip safe?

The airline is absolutely safe-- no issues with safety.

The seating was the standard 737 three per row on each side of the aisle. I had a 50 minute flight, so I couldn't have cared less which seat I had. Avelo is an Ultra Low Cost Carrier, so they charge for carry-on bags (you can bring one personal item to stow under the seat in front of you). I returned the next day, so I just brought my laptop and one change of clothes.

If you are interested in flying Avelo, register to get on their email list, as they often have sales of 50% off.

[arkitect13]

Cant quite find the article right now, but another potential Apartment project of Upper Dublin, The "Luxor" if renderings still hold true, its gonna have mostly ground floor parking, so sadly no mixed use, but it'll bring 200 or so apartments to a currently vacant, asphalt/weed covered lot

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by arkitect13

Cant quite find the article right now, but another potential Apartment project of Upper Dublin, The "Luxor" if renderings still hold true, its gonna have mostly ground floor parking, so sadly no mixed use, but it'll bring 200 or so apartments to a currently vacant, asphalt/weed covered lot

Proposed 225-unit apartment community in Fort Washington seeking conditional use approval from Upper Dublin

Basically a copy-paste of their project in Phoenixville. Good use, forgettable but understandably utilitarian design. If you want to get a sense of what it will look like in person here is the street view of their Phoenixville project.

[Jawnadelphia]

^That Developer is building basically the same thing on the Wilmington Riverfront too. These “Luxor’s” are popping up all over.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

^That Developer is building basically the same thing on the Wilmington Riverfront too. These “Luxor’s” are popping up all over.

Yep, Westrum has been fairly aggressive building in the Philly suburbs over the last decade, tweaking the same basic design case-by-case and churning these out. I don't doubt that these are profitable.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Yep, Westrum has been fairly aggressive building in the Philly suburbs over the last decade, tweaking the same basic design case-by-case and churning these out. I don't doubt that these are profitable.

And not a brick in sight! Tree house quality buildings with $2k/month rents are making Westrum a fortune. Would it hurt the bottom line to invest a little bit more in the design/quality?

Good density, even though they do little or nothing to activate or enhance the street experience.

While on the topic, a dense suburban project I like is West End Flats in Media. Media needs another apartment building downtown, West End Flats completed 5 years ago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9179...7i16384!8i8192

Chestnut Square in West Chester is also nice.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9618...7i16384!8i8192

Anyways, the region needs more West End Flats and less Luxors.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

And not a brick in sight! Tree house quality buildings with $2k/month rents are making Westrum a fortune. Would it hurt the bottom line to invest a little bit more in the design/quality?

Good density, even though they do little or nothing to activate or enhance the street experience.

While on the topic, a dense suburban project I like is West End Flats in Media. Media needs another apartment building downtown, West End Flats completed 5 years ago.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9179...7i16384!8i8192

Chestnut Square in West Chester is also nice.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9618...7i16384!8i8192

Anyways, the region needs more West End Flats and less Luxors.

Great examples.

It's fantastic when new development can be integrated into the existing historic commercial fabric in suburban settings.

Phoenixville has an awesome "before and after" example on the power of well-designed, street-activating infill:

Bridge Street in 2012: https://goo.gl/maps/6H3qMVphxeZfAHef9

Bridge Street in 2021: https://goo.gl/maps/RVhJRRvizGzEV4ieA

Malvern, too:

King Street in 2007: https://goo.gl/maps/e5qjgHZFso889Uqt9

King Street in 2021: https://goo.gl/maps/eA1V3n42h3VcYBGQ6

More of this please!

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

^That Developer is building basically the same thing on the Wilmington Riverfront too. These “Luxor’s” are popping up all over.

Just like there are The Pointe at (Insert Town Name Here) all over the 202/30 Bypass Corridor from KOP to Downingtown.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

Great examples.

It's fantastic when new development can be integrated into the existing historic commercial fabric in suburban settings.

Phoenixville has an awesome "before and after" example on the power of well-designed, street-activating infill:

Bridge Street in 2012: https://goo.gl/maps/6H3qMVphxeZfAHef9

Bridge Street in 2021: https://goo.gl/maps/RVhJRRvizGzEV4ieA

Malvern, too:

King Street in 2007: https://goo.gl/maps/e5qjgHZFso889Uqt9

King Street in 2021: https://goo.gl/maps/eA1V3n42h3VcYBGQ6

More of this please!

That stretch of King Street in Malvern has come a long way. That curve heading East gives me cute New England vibes. I've been to the Malvern Buttery once too, it was a nice café.

But yes, these examples are what I love to see in dense suburban towns.

[TK2001]

When I moved out of Malvern a year ago, I saw a steel framed building going up near the Wawa. Does anyone know what that is now?

[PHLtoNYC]

Great that Shapiro gets it.

'We have it all': Shapiro touts life sciences as key economic driver during Bucks County biotech visit
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...r-funding.html