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  #2681  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 8:39 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
I agree, but It's what the citizens of this city want - they keep voting for the same corruption every voting cycle.
It's actually not what citizens want or voted for. They voted 3 to 1 for NOT the CTU when they chose Lightfoot over Taxwinkle. Unfortunately the system is so wracked with corruption already that what voters vote for doesn't matter. The only solution is insolvency and a Federal judge giving the pensioners a haircut.
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  #2682  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 9:41 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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WTF is a Restorative Justice Coordinator? Affordable housing? So now, in a corrupt city that blocks housing developments left and right, that drives up housing costs intentionally, now wants to spend more taxpayer dollars paying someone to lobby and bribe the aldercritters to not block the housing anymore?

Chicago is broken.
That's a new one. CTU is demanding Restorative Justice Coordinators? What a joke.

I didn't write this, but it is exactly how I feel as a CPS dad.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...-about-kids-it
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  #2683  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 9:58 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I didn't write this, but it is exactly how I feel as a CPS dad.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...-about-kids-it
i'm not quite yet a CPS dad (next year), but that piece pretty much 100% sums up my feelings about the CTU as well.
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  #2684  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 2:53 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Yea, I agree as well. Why the huge need for a nurse in every school? If there's a medical problem beyond putting on a band aide for a scrapped knee, the kid should go to a doctor or hospital. Last I checked schools weren't health care facilities.
Not only are they striking for huge pay raises, but now every little thing on their laundry list of nice to haves, they are going to get too.
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  #2685  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:25 PM
Handro Handro is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Yea, I agree as well. Why the huge need for a nurse in every school? If there's a medical problem beyond putting on a band aide for a scrapped knee, the kid should go to a doctor or hospital. Last I checked schools weren't health care facilities.
Not only are they striking for huge pay raises, but now every little thing on their laundry list of nice to haves, they are going to get too.
See this is such a tough situation. On one side you have Jesse Sharkey, a political hack holding the city hostage. On the other hand, you have guys like this who claim students don't need nurses and to just "stick a band aid on it."

That was a great article in Crains. It's possible to support teachers and students while recognizing what Sharkey is up to, glad that seems to be a prevailing point of view throughout the city.
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  #2686  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:31 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
See this is such a tough situation. On one side you have Jesse Sharkey, a political hack holding the city hostage. On the other hand, you have guys like this who claim students don't need nurses and to just "stick a band aid on it."

That was a great article in Crains. It's possible to support teachers and students while recognizing what Sharkey is up to, glad that seems to be a prevailing point of view throughout the city.
I think CTUs main goal is more power. They want the Mayor to support their political agenda and were holding up contract negotiations over it. I wish we could sue them over that. They are illegally holding the city hostage over their demands for political power.
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  #2687  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:41 PM
lakeshoredrive lakeshoredrive is online now
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I think CTUs main goal is more power. They want the Mayor to support their political agenda and were holding up contract negotiations over it. I wish we could sue them over that. They are illegally holding the city hostage over their demands for political power.
I’m glad Lightfoot is not falling for it. Good to see her holding her own against CTU.
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  #2688  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:43 PM
Chisouthside Chisouthside is online now
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
See this is such a tough situation. On one side you have Jesse Sharkey, a political hack holding the city hostage. On the other hand, you have guys like this who claim students don't need nurses and to just "stick a band aid on it."

That was a great article in Crains. It's possible to support teachers and students while recognizing what Sharkey is up to, glad that seems to be a prevailing point of view throughout the city.
Yeah man, everytime I see something dumb coming from the CTU camp I see something even dumber from the anti CTU side.
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  #2689  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:52 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
but we are building on a lot we own on Lake Minnetonka in a neighborhood called Cottagewood. It's a quaint little town, and close to a couple walkable areas, but it's def the burbs.
Cottagewood is home to the Minnetonka Yacht Club. The motto is "Two Square Miles of Tranquility." It has a population of 3,800. There is a tiny, tiny section where zoning permits townhomes. Setbacks are required everywhere.

People who find this sort of environment appealing are the ones who are complaining most loudly here about their perceived problems with Chicago, even if they find it a good place to "own investment properties."

You can consider this information to determine whether their opinions about sidewalks, public services, demographics and public spending and taxation are worth listening to.

Some folks want to be protected by the law and not bound by it. The same folks want others to be bound by the law, but not protected by it. They tend to like places like Cottagewood, MN.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Nov 1, 2019 at 7:21 PM.
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  #2690  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:57 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is online now
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
Cottagewood is home to the Minnetonka Yacht Club. The motto is "Two Square Miles of Tranquility." It has a population of 3,800. There is a tiny, tiny section where zoning permits townhomes. Setbacks are required everywhere.

People who find this sort of environment appealing are the ones who are complaining most loudly here about their perceived problems with Chicago, even if they find it a good place to "own investment properties."

You can consider this information to determine whether their opinions about sidewalks, public services, demographics and public spending and taxation are worth listening to.

Some folks want to be protected by the law and not bound by it. The same folks want others to be bound by the law, but not protected by it. They tend to like places like Cottagewood, MN.
What is the point you are trying to make?

Last edited by Steely Dan; Nov 1, 2019 at 7:22 PM.
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  #2691  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 4:07 PM
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Tom In Chicago Tom In Chicago is offline
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With regards to the CTU crisis:

I guess I'm not sure I understand all the ins and outs of this problem. . . as a pedestrian who doesn't follow the details bear with me when I ask: why - if we've got a shrinking city population with school enrollment down - do I keep hearing a narrative that we've got a problem with class sizes being too large?

And another dumb question. . . why - if Chicago teachers are among the highest paid in the country - are they asking for more money?

And finally - if my ignorance hasn't already been made utterly apparent. . . where does the CTU think the money is going to come from?

Those are questions that seem to nag at me when the news cycle continues to give the CTU and the peace protesters so much airtime. . .

. . .
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  #2692  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 4:34 PM
BrinChi BrinChi is offline
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I have all those same questions.

The answer i've heard with regards to the a shrinking city population with school enrollment down, the most logical answer I've heard centers around school closings, which result in school consolidation. If they do this aggressively, class sizes could go up even while enrollment goes down. I'm not sure what the true facts are or how to verify that. The other issue is consolidating schools across neighborhoods, which can have huge safety implications when you make kids go to schools outside of their own neighborhood. I'm not sure what the answer is there. I probably would advocate for more smaller schools rather than fewer large schools.

I think they were striking on pay because that's the only legal way they can strike right now. Ironic because I'd be more ok with increased funding for everything else if they weren't also getting pay hikes.

Lastly, sounds like some union members think money will come from more TIF dollars; others want the mayor to reinstate the employee head tax or find another way to raise revenue.
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  #2693  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 4:53 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
What is the point you are trying to make?

Some people want want the city to work for them, at the expense of others. You come here and make a big noise, but when the rubber meets the road, the choices you make expose your motivations. In various comment sections complaining about taxes you may receive plaudits. In Chicago (or even New York, for that matter) you should take care that your exurban trappings and affect do not make you the subject of fun.

You're moving to a town where intrusive regulation makes it illegal to build to the sidewalk. And there's so little respect for property rights that I can't build an apartment building there. Or even open a store!
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  #2694  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 4:58 PM
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remember folks, if you start hurling political/culture war epithets in this thread, expect your post to be edited/deleted.

be respectful, be civil, be productive or fuck the hell off!!!
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  #2695  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:10 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
See this is such a tough situation. On one side you have Jesse Sharkey, a political hack holding the city hostage. On the other hand, you have guys like this who claim students don't need nurses and to just "stick a band aid on it."
The problem with this attitude is that it is eminently reasonable to question why we suddenly need nurses in schools. I'm willing to bet the vast vast majority of schools in the United States have no full time nurse. I'm willing to bet that over 90% of schools in the world do not have nurses. My Catholic grade school growing up did not have a nurse. I did not die. I was not maimed. Nor were the billions of other children educated without school nurses. Nor were the generations of Chicago school children who have not had school nurses in the past.

The notion that one cannot question the necessity of school nurses without being an asshole who hates children and wants them to bleed out on the playground it absolute nonsense. Typical CTU propaganda.

"Give us what we want or you hate the children"
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  #2696  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:16 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
And finally - if my ignorance hasn't already been made utterly apparent. . . where does the CTU think the money is going to come from?
Tom, they've already answered this one loud and clear:

Quote:
“Where will the money come from? Rich people,” CTU Vice President Stacy Davis Gates said Tuesday, as she repeated the union’s call for Illinois to tax its wealthiest residents at higher rates and pointed to revenue-generating ideas that need support from Democratic Gov. J.B. Pritzker.

“We have a governor who has committed to legalizing recreational marijuana and putting a tax on it, we can take that as well,” Davis Gates said. “They are also talking about sports betting. We can take that. They’re talking about opening a new casino here in the city of Chicago. We can take that.
Remember, these people are educating our children. I don't believe for one second that this attitude of "MINE MINE MINE GIMME TAKE GIMME GIMME" does not seep through into the classroom. As I mentioned, I am moving to a SFH in Old Irving in the Belden School district and was thinking "gee, with such a good school district maybe we will consider CPS".

Absolutely not after this. I don't want to have to explain why full grown adults are having a tantrum to my kids when they are kicked out of school for 2+ weeks every 3-5 years. I don't believe for a second that the teachers don't come back to the classroom after this and foist their festering political garbage on the children they are teaching. How many teachers are going to start their classes with "the mayor is evil, but we showed her" after this? At least in a Catholic school if my kids come home and tell me their teacher was indoctrinating them with some political nonsense I can complain to the adminstration and the teacher can be disciplined. Good luck with that when dealing with the allmighty CTU and their tenured fat cats...
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  #2697  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:17 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is online now
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
Some people want want the city to work for them, at the expense of others. You come here and make a big noise, but when the rubber meets the road, the choices you make expose your motivations. In various comment sections complaining about taxes you may receive plaudits. In Chicago (or even New York, for that matter) you should take care that your exurban trappings and affect do not make you the subject of fun.

You're moving to a town where intrusive regulation makes it illegal to build to the sidewalk. And there's so little respect for property rights that I can't build an apartment building there. Or even open a store!
You are completely ignoring the fact that the city is broke, and the only option is to continue to squeeze those with money.
As a quick real life example, here are the property taxes I've paid over the last several years:

2013 Tax Year: $24K
2014 Tax Year: $26K
2015 Tax Year: $29K
2016 Tax Year: $34K
2017 Tax Year: $38K
2018 Tax Year: $41K

***Anticipated Tax Bill by 2022: $56K

Keep in mind there has been no increase in value of my home, yet the taxes have essentially DOUBLED.

Also keep in mind, that the problems with Pensions, and other state/city obligations have not been fixed, in fact, they will continue to get worse. Guess where the money will have to come from? PROPERTY TAXES

Also keep in mind that CPS is a shit show, and basically private school is the best option (especially at the High School level) so on top of the Property Tax bill, I'll spend another 20K (at minimum).

I grew up in New York City, and have spent 32 of my 36 years on earth either in NYC (all in Manhattan) or City of Chicago + 4 years in Ann Arbor; this isn't about City vs. Suburbs or whatever nonsense you want to spew.

Bottom line: the City of Chicago is broken, and I'm not going to be on the hook to continue to throw money at a problem that will not be fixed.

If it was up to me, i'd move back to NYC, but at the end of the day Family is more important that being able to build to my lot line.
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  #2698  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 5:44 PM
Handro Handro is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
The problem with this attitude is that it is eminently reasonable to question why we suddenly need nurses in schools. "
Sure it is, but nobody was. A statement isn't a question.
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  #2699  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 6:43 PM
galleyfox galleyfox is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
With regards to the CTU crisis:

I guess I'm not sure I understand all the ins and outs of this problem. . . as a pedestrian who doesn't follow the details bear with me when I ask: why - if we've got a shrinking city population with school enrollment down - do I keep hearing a narrative that we've got a problem with class sizes being too large?

And another dumb question. . . why - if Chicago teachers are among the highest paid in the country - are they asking for more money?

And finally - if my ignorance hasn't already been made utterly apparent. . . where does the CTU think the money is going to come from?

Those are questions that seem to nag at me when the news cycle continues to give the CTU and the peace protesters so much airtime. . .

. . .
I think it's the things that are unsaid in the contract that tell the real story.

--There's a charter school moratorium but not a school closure moratorium.

--Classroom sizes are capped at 28-32, but only a few North and Southwest side schools are actually overcrowded while South side schools are half-empty. In a school district with ranked choice.

--Nurses, ect. being added but only in limited numbers.

--On top of that, current birth rates show the eligible student population dropping by at least 30%.

In other words, the CTU union leaders have knowingly left the door wide open for school closures either by force or natural attrition when the financial squeeze really hits. But they've done so in a way that they can still protest CPS when the time comes.
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  #2700  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 6:53 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post

If it was up to me, i'd move back to NYC, but at the end of the day Family is more important that being able to build to my lot line.
I am NOT completely ignoring it. I don't really care if your property has gone up in value. I certainly don't care that you've chosen to live in an expensive home with high taxes instead of a less expensive home with lower taxes. And I care even less that you prefer New York City.

But I don't know why you think that living in New York is going to save you taxes. The city income tax rate there would probably cost you $30,000 a year. And if you want to buy a nice Victorian there in a pleasant neighborhood where you can walk to Michelin starred restaurants and neighborhood theater, your taxes are going to be more than $50,000 a year.

You didn't ask, but personally, the reason I don't live in New York or London or Frankfurt is because I find the quality of life to simply be better in Chicago than it is there. If I had kids I'd have no problem sending them to local public schools, which are better than the average U.S. public school, though this of course depends on the neighborhood. And I also would have no financial problem retreating to a lakefront home in suburban Minneapolis, but I'd rather quit my job and be a bartender someplace with character and people, instead of retreating to something akin to a fortress behind a moat. Now, that's a choice that everyone is free to make for themselves. You, however, are posting on skyscraperpage. Look inward.
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