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  #1021  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2022, 3:57 AM
kittyhawk28 kittyhawk28 is offline
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
There's room for a 30-40-gate Heathrow Terminal 5-style satellite west of the MSC. This lays the groundwork for demolition of TBIT and MSC (which isn't even finished lol). It's true that LAX doesn't have the acreage of other airports, but we can get creative with land use. All parking (passengers, employees) should be consolidated and in multi-story structures (i.e. no surface parking). That includes relocating all parking structures in the CTA off-site near the ITFs, thereby further decreasing traffic in the CTA and creating millions of square feet for new check-in, concessions, etc.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Commission the best architecture and civil engineering firms in the world to come up with master plan proposals that will actually make LAX "world class."

Is there a need though? After the latest round of gate expansions are done (Concourse 0, T9, MSC South) the airport will have 180+ gates. Atlanta manages to pack over 100 million people/year in just 196 gates, LA is far off from reaching 100 million for a while.

Last edited by kittyhawk28; Dec 15, 2022 at 8:30 PM.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2022, 7:03 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by kittyhawk28 View Post
Is there a need though? After the latest round of gate expansions are done (Concourse 0, T9, MSC South) the airport will have 180+ gates. Atlanta manages to pack over 100 million people/year in just 196 gates, LA is far off from reaching 100 million for a while.
Technically none of the expansions LAX has done or planned will lead to a net increase in gates. LAWA is decommissioning the old remote gates and replacing them one for one with new gates in the CTA and at the MSC. It's all part of a deal they did with the local NIMBYs in exchange for not being CEQA/NEPA sued.

I say technically because even though by the numbers LAX already has enough gates to max out the capacity of its runways/ATC, the hassle of gathering up PAX and bussing them out to the remote gates cripples their throughput, so replacing them leads to a significant increase in capacity.

If it sounds like the NIMBYs are getting hosed by this deal, they are, but LAWA threatened to move the northernmost runway even further north to make room for a central taxiway for "safety", so in order to prevent that they had to agree.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2022, 2:15 PM
kittyhawk28 kittyhawk28 is offline
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Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp View Post
Technically none of the expansions LAX has done or planned will lead to a net increase in gates. LAWA is decommissioning the old remote gates and replacing them one for one with new gates in the CTA and at the MSC. It's all part of a deal they did with the local NIMBYs in exchange for not being CEQA/NEPA sued.

I say technically because even though by the numbers LAX already has enough gates to max out the capacity of its runways/ATC, the hassle of gathering up PAX and bussing them out to the remote gates cripples their throughput, so replacing them leads to a significant increase in capacity.

If it sounds like the NIMBYs are getting hosed by this deal, they are, but LAWA threatened to move the northernmost runway even further north to make room for a central taxiway for "safety", so in order to prevent that they had to agree.
They would still have a net gain of gates of up to 172 total gates up from the current 146 gates, even if they demolished the remote gates.

Also can't they still renege on the deal and still move the runway further north if the FAA forces them to for safety concerns?
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  #1024  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2022, 2:02 AM
Will O' Wisp Will O' Wisp is offline
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Originally Posted by kittyhawk28 View Post
They would still have a net gain of gates of up to 172 total gates up from the current 146 gates, even if they demolished the remote gates.

Also can't they still renege on the deal and still move the runway further north if the FAA forces them to for safety concerns?
Yeah here's the thing, I know the newspapers and Wikipedia all say LAX has 146 gates. But they are all wrong. There are, as we speak, 153 gates at LAX, the same number it has had since 2010. This is a decrease of 10 gates since 2006. This will remain true until at least 2024.

The reduction in gates was due to a CEQA lawsuit over the 2000 Master plan, and a resulting 2006 settlement agreement, which is available here. In addition to the gate reduction, the opposing parties were given virtual veto power over any new terminal construction. The only exceptions were what would become the Midfield Satellite Concourse (MSC) and the people mover, and even those could still be CEQA sued.

In 2015 LAWA had a look back into the 2006 settlement agreement. At the time they were struggling to get the LAMP project (airport people mover, etc) through a CEQA lawsuit from the same group that had sued over the 2000 Master Plan (ARSAC). In 2016 they managed to reach an agreement with ARSAC, which is why you suddenly started seeing a lot more movement on that project in 2017.

Per the terms of the MOU, available for viewing here, LAWA agreed to the following things:

-Not to relocate the northern runways further north
-Until 2024, only construct projects to replace remote gates, keeping the total number of gates at 153
-After 2024, not to build any gates outside of the of a designated Passenger Terminal Modernization Area (see exhibit D for map)
-After reaching 153 gates in the PTMA, decommission all of the remote gates
-Pay ARSAC $400,000

In return ARSAC agreed not to sue or otherwise delay any project that didn't break these boundaries. If this seems like a massive climbdown, it's because the political situation had changed since the early 2000s and the old settlement agreement was due to expire in 2020. They knew they weren't going to get nearly as good a deal this time around.

As for where the other numbers come from, it's because a lot of people don't understand the structure of all this. When LAX "replaces" a remote gate, they don't physically demolish it, it just legally can't be used. Today there are ~135 gates in the CTA/MSC, and 24 remote gates (of which only 18 can be used). T0 and T9 will add ~15 new gates and they will demolish 9 remote gates, meaning there will still physically be ~174 gates total on the airport, but still only 153 of them will be able to be used.

It's only after 2024 that LAX can truly expand. My guess is they'll extend the MSC south (not the current plan, a true extension which would involve relocating the AA maintenance hanger, probably to physically replace the remote gates). After that, it'll probably mainly be minor extensions/renovations in terms of absolute gate count. I would suspect the final number of gates will end up at a bit over 160, although technically 153 can support all of LAX's required capacity that assumes nothing ever delays a plane at the gate. Most likely finish date would be mid-late 2030s.

Oh and yes, LAWA technically can go back on the deal if the FAA forces them to, but only if that's part of a general FAA rule that all dual runways need a taxiway in-between them. Which will never happen, because that would involve rebuilding dozens of runways nationwide and raise such high holy hell it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Consider the controversy over the Metroplex projects and realize this would assuredly be worse.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 2:03 PM
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Urbanize LA has a good update on the LAX/Metro station. It is looking pretty, pretty, pretty good.

Construction ramps up for LAX/Metro Transit Center station


Photo courtesy of Urbanize LA.

https://la.urbanize.city/post/constr...center-station

Additionally, the article has a link to LA MTA's Twitter feed, which has more construction photos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/metrolosa...25779243491329
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  #1026  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 8:37 PM
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^ Nice project. Glad to see construction is running on schedule.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2022, 7:44 AM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Was in LAX T3. again. This central head house area looks very Star Wars/Darth Vader to me. love the diagonal framing around the exit and sky club areas

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  #1028  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:26 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
Urbanize LA has a good update on the LAX/Metro station. It is looking pretty, pretty, pretty good.

Construction ramps up for LAX/Metro Transit Center station


Photo courtesy of Urbanize LA.

https://la.urbanize.city/post/constr...center-station

Additionally, the article has a link to LA MTA's Twitter feed, which has more construction photos.

https://mobile.twitter.com/metrolosa...25779243491329
Excellent news!! Thanks for the update and it’s really coming along nicely. Get it done as soon as possible.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2023, 8:41 PM
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I had to do the traffic crawl around the horseshoe several days ago & I recall Eric garcetti implying last yr that LAX commissioners in the past didn't want to change the airport's format because they didn't want to lose revenues from parking fees...or something like that. If so.... This proj should have been started & completed yrs ago...


Video Link
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  #1030  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2023, 5:48 PM
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From Urbanize Los Angeles:

Take a flythrough tour of the future LAX Terminal 9

It would be the airport's only passenger terminal located east of Sepulveda

JUNE 06, 2023, 8:15AM
STEVEN SHARP



Video Link


At an industry forum held in the spring, LAWA officials offered a closer look at the centerpiece of a $6-billion plan to expand LAX's passenger capacity: Terminal 9.

Terminal 9, which is part of the LAX Airfield and Terminal Modernization Project announced in 2019, would see the construction of a new 1.4-million-square-foot building on the east side of Sepulveda Boulevard - away from the notorious LAX "horseshoe." The new facility would have room for 12 gates serving wide-body planes or as many as 17 gates serving narrow-body planes - roughly 40 percent larger than the recent West Gates expansion.

“In many ways, Terminal 9 will become symbolic of a new era of architecture, design and inclusiveness at our campus, underscoring our reputation as a pacesetter that leads by example,” said LAWA chief development officer Terri Mestas in a news release.

Plans call for a four-story structure with an amorphous footprint, seated atop two levels of parking. Due to its location away from existing passenger gates, Terminal 9 is intended to have dedicated roads for automobile and pedestrian access, as well as its own people mover station, which would be added to the currently under-construction system.


Map of LAX Airfield and Terminal Modernization Project
LAWA


LAWA is set to issue a request for qualifications to bidders looking to build Terminal 9 this month. The agency has previously aimed to complete Terminal 9 in advance of the 2028 Summer Olympic games.

The overall Airfield and Terminal Modernization Project is also slated to add more passenger gates to the northern half of the LAX central terminal area - an 11-gate extension of Terminal 1 dubbed "Concourse 0."

The $6-billion plan will follow a roughly $14-billion capital improvements project already undertaken at LAX over the past decade, which has refurbished passenger terminals, added the new people mover with a connection to Metro Rail, and a consolidated rental car facility which may be the largest parking garage in the world. Other upcoming projects include a planned expansion of the West Gates at Tom Bradley International Terminal.


Link: https://la.urbanize.city/post/take-f...lax-terminal-9
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  #1031  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2023, 9:48 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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The new west Headhouse at Delta's T3 opened yesterday. I was surprised when I landed in LA and the temporary path to leave had been closed off. The paint in this new area hadn't even dried yet and it smelled of beautiful construction. Lot's of things still in their wraps like the wood ceiling panels still have wrapping and tape and walls are still wet and blocked off. I had been up for 24.5 hours and couldn't really take it in. Luckily I have another flight on Friday and will be there to take in all the sights. These pics are pretty terrible as I was beyond tired but excited to be there

I'm less than excited to see signs for yet another Starbucks in the prime location at the very front entrance to this terminal, when there is a perfectly good Alfred coffee tucked back in the T3 Satellite as well as a Starbucks in the very front of T2. Much too much. Couldn't they have pulled Alfred up front and put Starbucks in the back?! Personal quip about my dislike for the utter dominance of this coffee chain. Anyway... Next trip I'm excited to use the reopened underground tunnel to baggage claim. In 2 months, the T3/Bradley connection opens



new security level biometric check in facility to open in summer


New west head house... how did Delta get lucky enough to score 2 big new head houses all to themselves?! United said no to a new head house as their recent renovation was; in essence, the first super terminal concept and they didnt want to put in any more money.


Side note, United's T7 satellite and pre-2017 head house are very nice, but their satellite area still reeks of 1980's with their customs gate caging still in tact. I hope T2 gets a renovation. I have another united flight in August and can update some pics.

Has anyone heard about the CTA West people mover station's drop off area? It's clearly the biggest station in the CTA and has a brand new elevated roadway paralleling adjacent the T3/T4 people mover pedestrian bridges on the east side of the T3/T4/Bradley parking garages as a connection to Bradley Terminal. Bradley is the biggest terminal and currently has one of the smallest pick up drop off areas which contributes significantly to loop traffic.

My question, is LAWA adding new Int. Bradley terminal check in areas and offices between the West Parking Garages or is it just extra space to pick up and drop off?? I've looked all over to see what this could possibly be as there is lots of glass like it could be something more than just that. The below picture is a rendering of the east side of this station. The west side; which faces Bradley Terminal, looks about as grand as the new headhouses they are building with a high roof line and soon to be lots of glass.





Quote:
Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Is there not going to be a walkway connecting the people mover to T1?
There is one connecting station 2 with T1.5/T1, but the main T1 walkway is constructed up to the loop roadway, but will hang out unfinished until T1’s concourse 0 is complete in about 5 years before going across the loop and connecting to the buildings.
Basically, the northern roadway entrance into the airport will have to be demolished first, because it’s in the exact spot of where the new bridge will connect.


The above diagram is not drawn to scale and it incorrectly represents where the station 2 bridges connect. It makes it seem like they are both right around the old T2, but this is inaccurate

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  #1032  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
From Urbanize Los Angeles:

Take a flythrough tour of the future LAX Terminal 9
The city should just make everything south of Arbor Vitae, west of thee 405, and north of the 105 airport property.

LAX needs to be completely reimagined.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 1:02 AM
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By replacing the parking stuctures with new terminal space, they could've built dual-level bridges allowing for sterile, air-side corridors above the land-side people mover corridors. Only the air-side corridors on the top deck would connect to the terminal spaces, which would connect with each other to form a sterile network.

But really, the best thing to do would be to build a separate underground people mover. I know LA's primarily an origin-destination airport, but it's still a major global airport where people transfer.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2023, 6:04 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
By replacing the parking stuctures with new terminal space, they could've built dual-level bridges allowing for sterile, air-side corridors above the land-side people mover corridors. Only the air-side corridors on the top deck would connect to the terminal spaces, which would connect with each other to form a sterile network.

But really, the best thing to do would be to build a separate underground people mover. I know LA's primarily an origin-destination airport, but it's still a major global airport where people transfer.
What do you think this is... some rich 1st world country with no military industrial complex???

At any rate, I think the new West Station elevated roadway is a precursor to demolishing the west parking garages for a future new landside terminal building. This was a part of a previous plan that never went forward, but this idea has lingered.

So at $6 Billion, T9 costs 6 K Line-LAX stations or 12 Beverly Center Skylights

Last edited by hughfb3; Jun 7, 2023 at 6:16 PM.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2023, 4:22 AM
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For T9, I hope they commission a firm that can design a sleek, minimalist design with high ceilings and lots of glass. Think Stahl House. If it's something timeless, all they would need to do is update bathrooms, floors, seats, etc.

Foster + Partners, OMA, Woods Bagot, Pelli, or some other European firm, please. NO GENSLER.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2023, 4:36 AM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
For T9, I hope they commission a firm that can design a sleek, minimalist design with high ceilings and lots of glass. Think Stahl House. If it's something timeless, all they would need to do is update bathrooms, floors, seats, etc.

Foster + Partners, OMA, Woods Bagot, Pelli, or some other European firm, please. NO GENSLER.
If T9 can be anything like SFO’s T1 we would be in stellar shape

If you ever get the chance, visit SFO’s new T1. It is the Gold Standard for terminal design, construction, and functionality for North America. By far, my favorite terminal in the US and rivals some of the best in Asia.

Terminal 1 Center Design-builder: Hensel Phelps / Gensler / Kuth Ranieri
Terminal 1 Center Construction Manager: AECOM & Cooper Pugeda Management Joint Venture

I’m at LAX again this weekend flying through my favorite… Delta. The old baggage claim tunnel has reopened and looks well preserved in its original state, the only thing in this terminal that is. Also, tons of new vendors have been revealed. I will have some new pics on Sunday after I land back in LA of the areas that just opened last week. I hope once they are done with T3 that they will turn to T2 and renovate it. Even though a recent 2017 renovation happened, it’s way over crowded. Was just in there today and it is much too much every time. I thought when T3 reopened that T2 would be less crowded, on the contrary.

Last edited by hughfb3; Jun 10, 2023 at 4:50 AM.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2023, 4:40 AM
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It's nice, but I want something nicer for LAX.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2023, 11:59 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Update on Delta's T3 West head house opening

The escalators reopened to go down through the original tunnel.





Up top, the west head house opened and the temporary diagonal entrance to T3 has been sealed off. The ceiling wood and metal work is reminiscent of airplane wings layered over one another.





New vendors include Fat Sal's, Starbucks, Pizza Please, Yokumi, Chicken and Beer, and one of my favorites ever ...Cava!

This is in addition to what's already recently opened like Alfred Coffee, Native, and others.





The new entryway from central security to T3



Delta seems to know their clientele quite well, because everything they are opening is stuff from vendors that me and my coworkers love and would want to get food and drink from
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  #1039  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 10:01 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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That new CTA West People Mover Station drop off elevated roadway, the only station in the CTA with an attached roadway.

This picture is a few weeks old and forgot to post. It shows how much bigger and beefier the West station is compared to the others. This one is so beefy that the roof has to bee supported by Cantilever which you can see on the top.

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  #1040  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2023, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
Update on Delta's T3 West head house opening
New vendors include Fat Sal's, Starbucks, Pizza Please, Yokumi, Chicken and Beer, and one of my favorites ever ...Cava!
Speaking of Cava, I could have bought a lot of Crazy Feta and harissa with these gains... It's great to see a local DC company do well.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/15/cava...-exchange.html
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