CHICAGO | General Developments

[harryc]

June 29

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Yes, ultimately the stigma against the south side just has to die.

I don’t think the city can do much, other than incentives, to change this. We need those evil private investors to make a truly concerted, dedicated effort to market some of these neighborhoods.

I know that they tried and failed with the Southworks site, but that was a bad play anyhow. It’s just too damn far away, and it’s decades away from being desirable.

Right now Bronzeville needs a benefactor. The development pace there needs to bump up from 2nd to 4th gear like yesterday. Sure, it will probably be in the form of townhomes, but that’s still way better than vacant lots. Perhaps a tad denser near the Green Line, but still—the current state of affairs for the south lakefront hoods is an embarrassment for the city.

I’ve known people who chose to go to MBA school in New York over University of Chicago just based on their drive from Hyde Park to downtown. We do actually lose a lot from the current state of our south side built environment.

Generally agreed, but I'm a little confused. How does more development in Bronzeville shorten the distance from Hyde Park to the Loop? UChicago will always be an outer neighborhood kind of school, even if that specific outer neighborhood is more urban than 95% of American cities. Not to bang the transit drum again, but only a real rail option for Hyde Park will make folks like your friend feel that they can do that commute. Regardless of how good or bad the bus options may be for Hyde Park, regular bus service to downtown will not impress prospective students.

Anecdotes aside, though, UChicago's business school doesn't seem to be struggling at attracting top students. And they realize the challenges for working people to get to Hyde Park for classes, which is why they offer many night classes in the Gleacher Center downtown.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by harryc

Tee off

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Generally agreed, but I'm a little confused. How does more development in Bronzeville shorten the distance from Hyde Park to the Loop? UChicago will always be an outer neighborhood kind of school, even if that specific outer neighborhood is more urban than 95% of American cities. Not to bang the transit drum again, but only a real rail option for Hyde Park will make folks like your friend feel that they can do that commute. Regardless of how good or bad the bus options may be for Hyde Park, regular bus service to downtown will not impress prospective students.

Anecdotes aside, though, UChicago's business school doesn't seem to be struggling at attracting top students. And they realize the challenges for working people to get to Hyde Park for classes, which is why they offer many night classes in the Gleacher Center downtown.

Where did I suggest that Bronzeville development would shorten distances?

I think the people who chose New York over Chicago were turned off by all the blight between Hyde Park and downtown. They felt that it would be dangerous

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Where did I suggest that Bronzeville development would shorten distances?

I think the people who chose New York over Chicago were turned off by all the blight between Hyde Park and downtown. They felt that it would be dangerous

I take it those people never simply used LSD to get from Hyde Park to and from the Downtown/Loop area? Blight? Other than McCormick Place and environs (and rail infrastructure), it's pretty much all parkland!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[AMWChicago]

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

I have a front seat view of the Sears from my north facing terrace... I believe the new light show started on the 3rd.... IT BLEW MY MIND (full disclosure, I was a little baked...)

lmao quite alright sir. I'm away over the summer but when I go back to school in August, I won't be able to wait to watch from my deck.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I take it those people never simply used LSD to get from Hyde Park to and from the Downtown/Loop area? Blight? Other than McCormick Place and environs (and rail infrastructure), it's pretty much all parkland!

Aaron (Glowrock)

I'm guessing they drove on MLK or Michigan. Either of those showcase a lot of unwelcoming blight.

Even if they weren't particularly safety conscious, Hyde Park, as nice as it is, still feels fairly disconnected from the other parts of the city students might want to frequent. Especially compared to NYU or Columbia or whatever else school they were considering in New York.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by emathias

I'm guessing they drove on MLK or Michigan. Either of those showcase a lot of unwelcoming blight.

Even if they weren't particularly safety conscious, Hyde Park, as nice as it is, still feels fairly disconnected from the other parts of the city students might want to frequent. Especially compared to NYU or Columbia or whatever else school they were considering in New York.

Exactly.

People should be able to see and enjoy the city heading downtown from Hyde Park without having to ride LSD. A similar drive downtown from, say, Rogers Park, would show some of Chicago’s best urban cityscapes. But from Hyde Park on up it’s a combo of beautiful classic buildings, new construction, and many swaths of blight

[10023]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Yes, ultimately the stigma against the south side just has to die.

I don’t think the city can do much, other than incentives, to change this. We need those evil private investors to make a truly concerted, dedicated effort to market some of these neighborhoods.

I know that they tried and failed with the Southworks site, but that was a bad play anyhow. It’s just too damn far away, and it’s decades away from being desirable.

Right now Bronzeville needs a benefactor. The development pace there needs to bump up from 2nd to 4th gear like yesterday. Sure, it will probably be in the form of townhomes, but that’s still way better than vacant lots. Perhaps a tad denser near the Green Line, but still—the current state of affairs for the south lakefront hoods is an embarrassment for the city.

I’ve known people who chose to go to MBA school in New York over University of Chicago just based on their drive from Hyde Park to downtown. We do actually lose a lot from the current state of our south side built environment.

It’s not just the built environment but the demographics. Sorry guys, but for those neighborhoods between I-55 and Washington Park to become desirable, there would need to be very large scale development that brought in a massive influx of new residents (and made them at least 40% or so white pretty much all at once). That would of course need to be accompanied by a fairly dramatic turnover in the retail, restaurant etc presence.

There is of course that whole post-Industrial wasteland along the lake to be redeveloped (including Prarie Shores), which would be a start. But there needs to be something big around IIT, where the L stop is, to introduce thousands of new white collar residents. Then 35th could gentrify, become a restaurant row or something, and you’d have momentum for the surrounding neighborhoods to develop bit by bit instead of with major redevelopment projects.

[cannedairspray]

I haven't lived in Chicago in almost twenty years now and haven't even been there since 2016. But at least around the turn of the century, Hyde Park was very much a world unto itself, totally disconnected from the rest of the city.

That might've been my world as a Catholic League kid, but I'd have friends from Beverly (of course) to Park Ridge to Hinsdale and everywhere in between. But Hyde Park was a black hole. No one's parents lived there, no one got an apartment in college or afterward there. Just a...nice neighborhood no one ever went to. Not even the few U of Chicago people I knew hung out or lived there.

Bridgeport seems to be up and coming, though. So that's progress for the Southside.

[IrishIllini]

Changing perceptions of the south side starts with the south lakefront neighborhoods IMO. Unfortunately, much of the vintage housing is rotting in everywhere but Hyde Park and Kenwood. The far south side lakefront neighborhoods are mostly intact and most buildings look maintained from the street, but many likely need extensive updating of their interiors. It feels a bit like Uptown down there. A lot of handsome courtyard buildings.

That said, luring people south starts with Bronzeville, but I believe the city requires new construction of 3 or more units on vacant lots there to include at least one affordable unit. That's a mistake IMO. Bronzeville isn't under any immediate threat of gentrification and its current reputation and the state of the surrounding areas will probably keep it off most people's radar. I'd guess more people will be priced out of trendier north side neighborhoods and be pushed to places like Jefferson Park despite it being further from downtown. The fact that Hyde Park, Kenwood, Bridgeport, and Chinatown are not contiguous makes the revitalization more challenging.

[spyguy]

Possible residential + retail development at Pershing & State

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by 10023

It’s not just the built environment but the demographics. Sorry guys, but for those neighborhoods between I-55 and Washington Park to become desirable, there would need to be very large scale development that brought in a massive influx of new residents (and made them at least 40% or so white pretty much all at once). That would of course need to be accompanied by a fairly dramatic turnover in the retail, restaurant etc presence.

There is of course that whole post-Industrial wasteland along the lake to be redeveloped (including Prarie Shores), which would be a start. But there needs to be something big around IIT, where the L stop is, to introduce thousands of new white collar residents. Then 35th could gentrify, become a restaurant row or something, and you’d have momentum for the surrounding neighborhoods to develop bit by bit instead of with major redevelopment projects.

Perhaps you've been away from Chicago for too long. These areas are gentrifying right now, though I do agree there is a long way to go in terms of open land.dNot as rapidly as a Logan Square obviously, but they're gentrifying. They have seen a number of new construction homes built on vacant land and sold in the $400K to $700K range in the last 5 to 10 years. There's also some multi unit buildings in the form of new construction - mostly small but there's a few sizable ones like the one on 47th and Cottage Grove. There is still a long way to go, but to think that there's nothing happening right now? Come on.

Here's some examples of new homes in that area:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/41...home/104483691

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4...90401075_zpid/

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/46.../home/82093510

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/61.../home/58481684

According to my permit map, I count over 130 new single family home construction permits, almost all on vacant land between 35th street, 51st street, State St, and Cottage Grove. I also count around 25 multi unit buildings in this area with new construction permits. There's another 20 multi unit buildings in the Kenwood area and a handful more SFH permitted. This is equivalent or even more than everyone's beloved Bridgeport.


The actual reality of who lives there is changing too with this. For example, this census tract went from having 19.1% college education attainment in 2010 to 34.3% college education attainment in 2016. This tract has a 45.7% college education attainment percentage as of 2016.

Some of the areas are already solidly middle class in terms of income. For example, this census tract in 2016 has a median household income of $55,845. This tract has a median household income of $55,813 in 2016.

And yes, they are seeing population growth. This tract grew 518 people from 2010 to 2016 which was a 23.3% increase of population.



So yes, there is a long way to go, but there's actually things quietly happening in these areas.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by spyguy

Possible residential + retail development at Pershing & State

Yes to this please. Of course, I've been teased by things like this before...

[Randomguy34]

Originally Posted by spyguy

Possible residential + retail development at Pershing & State

Curbed had an article a couple years back about the 39th & State site being a possible Walmart "supercenter". Target would definitely be better to see, since they've been switch to more urban formats

https://chicago.curbed.com/2013/5/29...ille-cha-lands

[Busy Bee]

Is this where that "Metropolis" project was proposed back before the meltdown?

[ardecila]

^ Yes, this was the site of Capri Capital's Metropolis proposal.

This new plan appears to be from McLaurin, who was the developer behind the other CHA/Target land deal at Division/Larrabee. It's good to see they are entertaining a mixed-use concept here instead of a single-use Target structure.

Also the blurb on their webpage mentions an elevated walking path from the Dan Ryan to the lakefront, presumably a conversion of the old CTA Kenwood Branch viaduct... this could get quite expensive since most of the bridges are gone, so it's probably just a empty promise (the 606 was almost $100M, Kenwood is half as long but requires more costly bridges). But I'm glad to see somebody thinking about this for the Kenwood viaduct, especially with the new lakefront bridge at 41st that would directly connect to this trail. That's an amenity that really could speed up the transformation of Bronzeville, since it sits exactly halfway between the gentrified fringes of South Loop and Hyde Park.

A decade ago when Toni Preckwinkle was alderman, she wanted to tear down the viaduct for (at-grade) green space, but the concrete construction of the walls is so massive that the demolition costs were crazy. It's cheaper just to leave the walls in place, CTA will do the same thing on the North Red Line and build a mini-viaduct on top of the old concrete embankment.

[jc5680]

Has any updated information ever been released about the ongoing work on the riverwalk? There are smaller construction tweaks being made to the 3 most western blocks. (In addition to the mart projection project)

The large lawn space has seen a bunch of random changes.
-The large Deer installation doesn't appear to be coming back, although the concrete footings are of course still in the lawn.
-They painted the stairwell on lake along with most of the barricades along upper Wacker a bright white (not even the expected kind-of-stone-colored-beige)
- There are now several large footings installed near lake for what my best guess is a deck of some sort?

The riverwalk website doesn't mention any of this (that I can find at least) and barely acknowledges the last segment even exists.

[NiHao]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I take it those people never simply used LSD to get from Hyde Park to and from the Downtown/Loop area? Blight? Other than McCormick Place and environs (and rail infrastructure), it's pretty much all parkland!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Try taking the redline and then bus over to the university.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by jc5680

Has any updated information ever been released about the ongoing work on the riverwalk? There are smaller construction tweaks being made to the 3 most western blocks. (In addition to the mart projection project)

The large lawn space has seen a bunch of random changes.
-The large Deer installation doesn't appear to be coming back, although the concrete footings are of course still in the lawn.
-They painted the stairwell on lake along with most of the barricades along upper Wacker a bright white (not even the expected kind-of-stone-colored-beige)
- There are now several large footings installed near lake for what my best guess is a deck of some sort?

The riverwalk website doesn't mention any of this (that I can find at least) and barely acknowledges the last segment even exists.

Can't find anything definitive. The Trib says this area is used for construction staging for the Merchandise Mart projection show, but I assume that refers to the covered area underneath Wacker. The same article implies that concessionaires are eager to use the generous space between Franklin and Lake, but it sounds like the city is keeping it clear for recreational and cultural uses.

The Mayor's Office just put out some Adirondack chairs a few weeks ago (link below), maybe this is actually a deck. Seems like the kind of minor improvement the Mayor might order up from Park District crews... There's also been a few live music performances here in recent months, so a deck would give them a sort of stage to set up without blocking pedestrians.

https://www.facebook.com/ChicagoMayo...68336059910309

(FYI: This area is known alternately as "Room 6" or the "Confluence")