Atlanta Beltline

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Originally Posted by montydawg

In the end, these technologies are risky for a city of Atlanta to implement on a large scale. How long will these transit vehicles last? What is the cost per mile? What repair costs will these vehicles incur over time? Will the manufacturer be around in 10 years to supply spare parts?

With so much tech involved in these vehicles, it is likely technology will be vastly different in 10 years, and I am not seeing these autonomous vehicles having the 25-40 year service live that transit agencies are currently getting out of vehicles. There are also a lot of mechanics involved to move around 10 or fewer people per vehicle. That means you will have 5 sets of motors/batteries/complicated electronics to move around the same number of people as one streetcar. That is a lot more to break and repair over the lifespan of the vehicle.

I believe when they run the numbers, the cost per mile and metrics on repair costs will be much lower on a high capacity transit vehicle than these devices which are essentially glorified minivans. I don’t want to think about the safety concerns for pedestrians with these vehicles either.

While the streetcar is very capital intensive initially, it is a very long term investment

Good point! Let's see them run the numbers, I could basically ask almost identical questions for Beltline rail. Let's see the numbers and pros/cons of multiple options before dropping $1 billion plus into a legacy technology that won't be fully delivered in less than 10 years.

BTW, if anyone has ever done Risk Assessments - cost is a major factor in making decisions on risk. So without running the numbers you can't just guess the level of risk to the city.

[Martinman]

My one contribution to the discussion is from a FAQ regarding Beltline transit for every time someone asks the "why" question for the zillionth time as if someone just woke up on a Tuesday and decided there would be rail on the Beltline.

Several studies have been commissioned to look at the best possible transit options throughout the two decades of BeltLine planning. Early studies prior to 2005 looked at a variety of transit types including heavy rail, light rail, local bus, bus rapid transit and even maglev (magnetic levitation). In 2007, MARTA performed an “alternatives analysis” that looked at other transit types (including buses and bus rapid transit) and determined that light rail was the preferred transit based on projected ridership and infrastructure permanence. In 2012, the Federal Transit Administration performed an “Environmental Impact Statement” that studied alternatives and again validated light rail as the preferred transit type. In 2018-2019, Atlanta BeltLine Inc. commissioned an additional study (Transit Task Force Study) that looked at both rail and bus options - again concurring with light rail as the preferred transit type.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Y'all are describing private transit for rich people.

Rich people????? Scooters cost about $1 unlock fee and about 15¢ a minute to operate. So a 15 to 20 minute ride is about a MARTA ticket.

For robotaxies it is still early but right now In Phoenix a Waymo is about 10% cheeper than Uber and there is NO tipping or people to deal with.

Once Tesla, Waymo and then others get into robotaxi competition the price will go down. Also we will start seeing "buses/vans/Pods" type group/shared/assorted people robotaxies that run mapped routes with pre determined "bus" stops and would be very inexpensive. No driver to pay and lower operating costs (energy and maintenance).

OT: An interesting YouTube video made by a software engineer about Tesla robotaxi plans. He does a lot of high quality FSD drives videos normally. He uses some of his stock FSD drives in the background (speed up for this video). The bottom shows what is on the car's screen and the steering wheel in the lower right is Blue FSD and Gray human driving.

Also anyone who wants to experience it in action can arrange a meeting with me in Atlantic Station and I will let FSD drive you around the city to blow your mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsBW_3cWVX0

[stepover]

Originally Posted by Julien

Rich people????? Scooters cost about $1 unlock fee and about 15¢ a minute to operate. So a 15 to 20 minute ride is about a MARTA ticket.

For robotaxies it is still early but right now In Phoenix a Waymo is about 10% cheeper than Uber and there is NO tipping or people to deal with.

Once Tesla, Waymo and then others get into robotaxi competition the price will go down. Also we will start seeing "buses/vans/Pods" type group/shared/assorted people robotaxies that run mapped routes with pre determined "bus" stops and would be very inexpensive. No driver to pay and lower operating costs (energy and maintenance).

OT: An interesting YouTube video made by a software engineer about Tesla robotaxi plans. He does a lot of high quality FSD drives videos normally. He uses some of his stock FSD drives in the background (speed up for this video). The bottom shows what is on the car's screen and the steering wheel in the lower right is Blue FSD and Gray human driving.

Also anyone who wants to experience it in action can arrange a meeting with me in Atlantic Station and I will let FSD drive you around the city to blow your mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsBW_3cWVX0

I've had Tesla FSD since 2018, it was great on the highway. Once v12 came out it's amazing how well it works on city streets. Driving on a dedicated/specially designed track is enormously easier to pull off then city streets. I guess as more people encounter this they'll better understand the benefits and advancements. Until then I guess a lot of people still see it as science fiction based on this thread.