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  #81  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 6:32 PM
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I think having events by July is super reasonable to expect, but the challenge with Goldeyes is crossing the border. Even if we can have events here, it doesn’t matter if the border stays closed. While I also think the border could open reasonably by July with vaccinations- that depends on uptake in US. They’re already reporting challenges with vaccine uptake in many areas and the rate is slowing down, Canada is expected to pass vaccination rate of US in June. If say only 60% of Americans decide to get vaccinated, will that be enough assurance for the feds to open? Tough to say.
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  #82  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:47 AM
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A lot has happened in the downtown and the Forks since the downtown ballpark was opened. The opportunity cost of using that land for a ballpark was a lot lower than it would be now. I get the charm of minor league baseball but I don’t think Winnipegers would be too beat up if it was gone. I don’t think there would be too many 5 year olds emptying their piggy banks to keep it going.
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  #83  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:51 AM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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At some point we need to get on with life. Generally vaccination targets are 70%.

Saskatchewan released an opening plan this week. Can't remember if the numbers were 70% or 80%.

I'd like to see Manitoba release some kind of opening plan. Including how large gathering, such as sporting events or concerts, will be handled. We can't just carry on with these
Travel will be the issue. Most of the states hosting teams in the league have vaccination rates around or below 50%. It's why North Dakota is being so generous with their vaccines, their population is refusing them.
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  #84  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 1:30 PM
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  #85  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:00 PM
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Big oof.

That said, assuming that the Goldeyes can pay their bills, what does the City of Jackson care if they use it? It's May... do they expect to find another tenant at this point?
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  #86  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ando View Post
A lot has happened in the downtown and the Forks since the downtown ballpark was opened. The opportunity cost of using that land for a ballpark was a lot lower than it would be now. I get the charm of minor league baseball but I don’t think Winnipegers would be too beat up if it was gone. I don’t think there would be too many 5 year olds emptying their piggy banks to keep it going.
Would be an excellent site for a new arena in 10-15 years or whenever they start looking at replacing BellMTS place. Especially if the BRT sections along Main and/or the rail line are completed.
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  #87  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:15 PM
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Would be an excellent site for a new arena in 10-15 years or whenever they start looking at replacing BellMTS place. Especially if the BRT sections along Main and/or the rail line are completed.
Yeah, I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to get rid of Shaw Park. The team is still there (theoretically at least) and there is still more than enough developable land nearby.

I think it would be wise to hold on to that land until supplies are more scarce. Then you might see something really good go up there.

I recall having the discussion about a possible replacement for Bell MTS Place going there some day... IIRC there was a map overlay posted that showed a large arena like Rogers Place could basically be squeezed into that lot. It would be a tight fit but it would work. I think that would be an appealing location for a new arena from an image standpoint, although I appreciate that the logistics of that site could be a bit complicated...
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  #88  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:21 PM
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Would be an excellent site for a new arena in 10-15 years or whenever they start looking at replacing BellMTS place. Especially if the BRT sections along Main and/or the rail line are completed.
If anyone starts to seriously propose what will end up being at least a half billion dollar project to replace an arena that is not yet 40 years old...

Well, let's just say they need to have their head examined.

It's always cheaper to renovate than move.

Assuming the NHL sticks around, I hope that MTS centre will remain in use in it's current location for the better part of 100 years.
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  #89  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:25 PM
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Yeah, I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to get rid of Shaw Park. The team is still there (theoretically at least) and there is still more than enough developable land nearby.

I think it would be wise to hold on to that land until supplies are more scarce. Then you might see something really good go up there.

I recall having the discussion about a possible replacement for Bell MTS Place going there some day... IIRC there was a map overlay posted that showed a large arena like Rogers Place could basically be squeezed into that lot. It would be a tight fit but it would work. I think that would be an appealing location for a new arena from an image standpoint, although I appreciate that the logistics of that site could be a bit complicated...
Air Canada Centre would fit with room to spare for residential along Waterfront and something new on the lot at the corner with Provencher.
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  #90  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:26 PM
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If anyone starts to seriously propose what will end up being at least a half billion dollar project to replace an arena that is not yet 40 years old...

Well, let's just say they need to have their head examined.

It's always cheaper to renovate than move.

Assuming the NHL sticks around, I hope that MTS centre will remain in use in it's current location for the better part of 100 years.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I was perfectly happy watching hockey at Winnipeg Arena. But when you sign on to the NHL you are paying to play the game for better or for worse, which seems to mean arena replacements every 40 years on average. We're almost halfway there.

We effectively said no to that model back in the early 90s and you will recall the outcome.
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  #91  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:30 PM
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We recently went through the Shaw Park arena site thing. There's plenty o room for an arena if someone really ever wanted to do it. Rogers Centre in Edmonton would fit there and it's a palace.

Re: Goldeyes. So are they not being permitted to play in Tennessee then?
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  #92  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:39 PM
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I'm inclined to agree with you. I was perfectly happy watching hockey at Winnipeg Arena. But when you sign on to the NHL you are paying to play the game for better or for worse, which seems to mean arena replacements every 40 years on average. We're almost halfway there.

We effectively said no to that model back in the early 90s and you will recall the outcome.
The model has changed though. And new arenas getting built aren't trying to hurdle past each other in terms of seating capacity.

MTS has a sweet spot in terms of capacity for this market, and from what I understand still has expansion capabilities for luxury boxes and the like from the rafters (that's the true $$ maker).

There is still many years of life left in that building, and plenty of flexibility available to make it work.

I also think it's criminal that they are replacing the 40 year old Saddledome in Calgary.

I get that the roof prevents some concerts (maybe not a concern in the current and soon to be post COVID climate) - but that is an iconic building in a perfect location that could be reno'd back almost brand new for half the cost of replacing it.
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  #93  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 3:35 PM
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^ I totally agree. I get the need to replace the really old 1920s era barns, but the idea that 1970s and 80s buildings are somehow obsolete is an idea I can't swallow.

But ownership is good at coming up with some bogus reasons as to why they need a new building, and cities, particularly the smaller ones who don't have the leverage of a NY, LA, Chicago, Toronto type city, tend to play along. I do not expect the situation to be any different here.

It's a long game with a standard playbook. Just wait, in 10 or 12 years you'll start hearing sportswriters who are at the service of TNSE start repeatedly mentioning how BMTSP is inadequate in various ways. Then you'll know it's going down.
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  #94  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 4:36 PM
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When you compare True North Centre to other rinks around the league, sure it's not that great. Those other rinks are insane though haha.. So if you're travelling around to 31 other rinks. TNC becomes a shit hole.
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  #95  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 4:43 PM
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Pretty sure I mentioned this last time the topic of replacing MTS Centre came up. Assuming it does happen at some point the site of Shaw Park is a non-starter.

A big part of the Jets financial success here is that TNSE has captured most of the secondary market spend, from parking to pre-game dinner to post-game drinks, all while covered in a tax incentive zone that heavily benefits them. Moving to the Shaw Park site they give up all that, which was a big part of the issue on why Jets 1.0 left town.

If a new arena happens it is going to be on a much larger site than Shaw Park so TNSE can again build out stuff to cover most of the needs of people attending events there.
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  #96  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 4:50 PM
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Maybe they could work with their friends and develop the sea of parking just the other side of the railway. And/or develop the site across waterfront in that park esque setting.

But ya I'd agree they wouldn't want to be shoe horned into a place now that they've built an empire around Bell MTS. I don't see them moving from Donald anytime soon.

Do they own the powerhouse building? Who owns the parkade on Hargave/Carlton, Citi Place?
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  #97  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 4:52 PM
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The area around Shaw Park could become a TIF zone with the stroke of a pen. And yes, there is plenty of space there to either develop (empty lots) or redevelop (old, underutilized buildings).
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  #98  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 6:59 PM
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Keep in mind The Forks is developing Parcel 4 into residential long before this ever happens so the opportunities to TNSE to build a new empire at Shaw Park just won't be possible. It is a complete non-starter of an idea. You might as well purpose the team relocate to Regina as that is as likely to happen.
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  #99  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 7:05 PM
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^ There is probably almost as much area in surface lots and either vacant (Keewayden) or highly underutilized (Nutty Club) buildings located a stone's throw from Shaw Park as there is at True North Square... what is so impossible about developing that land as an arena spinoff?
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  #100  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 7:09 PM
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True North didn't own anything around TNS when they build TNS. If they decided to replace TNS, they could redevelop the existing land for piles of cash, and pour that into building whatever they wanted around Shaw Park. New residential on Waterfront. A hotel, which would kill, at Waterfront and Pioneer. A new office/party plaza between Pioneer and William Stephenson. Whatever they wanted on the baseball parking across the tracks. It could even make for a far more compelling arena district than what they already have.
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