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  #2961  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2015, 3:11 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by williamphilapa View Post
http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...12SrdXoPCox.01

First Look at Renderings of New Flagship Center City Wawa

The Wawa at Broad and Walnut streets, which the company hopes to have open by...

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...6LpLf8ZW0ke.99

Note: Apologize if this was posted already.
Wouldn't it be smart for them, like similarly family-owned Wegmans, to offer craft beer bottles at this location as well? grab a beer, a hoagie, hang out for a few minutes in the new seating....then hop the BSL down to the Phillies game. Could replace my pre-game Perch Pub tradition..l
     
     
  #2962  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2015, 3:43 PM
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Defunct Fishtown factory to become Live Nation music venue
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...JflKxdxcwCl.99
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  #2963  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2015, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Wouldn't it be smart for them, like similarly family-owned Wegmans, to offer craft beer bottles at this location as well? grab a beer, a hoagie, hang out for a few minutes in the new seating....then hop the BSL down to the Phillies game. Could replace my pre-game Perch Pub tradition..l
Perch pub does not have good food agree on the craft beer though
     
     
  #2964  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2015, 2:08 AM
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Renzo Piano
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  #2965  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2015, 5:30 PM
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More Gallery stuff:

Next for the Gallery: 'Not just another mall'
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...6kfmSmKtWwR.99
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  #2966  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2015, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
More Gallery stuff:

Next for the Gallery: 'Not just another mall'
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...6kfmSmKtWwR.99
In my opinion...this is the minimum they could do. The only good thing here is that they are going to open the stores up onto market (which, admittedly, is a great thing). Everything else isn't very progressive. No entertainment like a movie theater...no residential...no expansion. All they are going to do is make it look nicer and replace the stores...and make it so white people feel more comfortable shopping there. Sometimes the way they speak about the gallery is so insulting, as if NO ONE shops there or the only ones who do are low class. The gallery needs updating, sure, but it isn't as bad as all the people who don't shop there say it is.

All in all...these tax credits are great to make the corridor nicer, but its only long-overdue renovations and improvements. No game changer here. I might even add that the MASSIVE tax credits aren't worth the minimal changes they have decided to make. If we are to give the credits, we should expect more than just cleaner walls, new stores, and more entrances on market.
     
     
  #2967  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2015, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cafeguy View Post
In my opinion...this is the minimum they could do. The only good thing here is that they are going to open the stores up onto market (which, admittedly, is a great thing). Everything else isn't very progressive. No entertainment like a movie theater...no residential...no expansion. All they are going to do is make it look nicer and replace the stores...and make it so white people feel more comfortable shopping there. Sometimes the way they speak about the gallery is so insulting, as if NO ONE shops there or the only ones who do are low class. The gallery needs updating, sure, but it isn't as bad as all the people who don't shop there say it is.

All in all...these tax credits are great to make the corridor nicer, but its only long-overdue renovations and improvements. No game changer here. I might even add that the MASSIVE tax credits aren't worth the minimal changes they have decided to make. If we are to give the credits, we should expect more than just cleaner walls, new stores, and more entrances on market.
Hahahaha, the tone of your comment made me chuckle because of how it sounded in my head as I read it.

I don't disagree with you at all. Certainly PREIT or any of the involved parties can't come out and say "We're booting out the _________ people". The only people who matter anymore really are the young and well-to-do. These are the people largely changing the fortunes of cities and the people being catered to, for better or worse. I've made the point for a long, long time now...a complete whitewash of Market East makes it almost like a town center with skyscrapers but its current state isn't what a central downtown corridor should be.

What's happening to The Gallery now is just the inverse of what happened to it during the course of the 90s - its fortunes wax and wane along with those of the surrounding area and money always talks above all else.

Nothing of size happens without tax subsidy anymore, as crooked as that is. Our beloved officials are still not bold enough to truly make demands of big developers yet but a case like this warrants it.
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  #2968  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2015, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
Hahahaha, the tone of your comment made me chuckle because of how it sounded in my head as I read it.

I don't disagree with you at all. Certainly PREIT or any of the involved parties can't come out and say "We're booting out the _________ people". The only people who matter anymore really are the young and well-to-do. These are the people largely changing the fortunes of cities and the people being catered to, for better or worse. I've made the point for a long, long time now...a complete whitewash of Market East makes it almost like a town center with skyscrapers but its current state isn't what a central downtown corridor should be.

What's happening to The Gallery now is just the inverse of what happened to it during the course of the 90s - its fortunes wax and wane along with those of the surrounding area and money always talks above all else.

Nothing of size happens without tax subsidy anymore, as crooked as that is. Our beloved officials are still not bold enough to truly make demands of big developers yet but a case like this warrants it.
It's really not a bad mall at all as it is right now. It's just old and not updated looking, and it has a big blank wall on market. But when people talk about it, they just make it sound like its a trashy place. I dunno. Its insulting...maybe not as much of a race thing as it is a class thing.

Still, they gotta make more demands on this before they dish out so much money in credits. Credits are necessary, but more needs to be offered to the community than JUST different stores and market-street facades. Even if its some phase three nonsense that includes residential. Maybe stronger connections into the convention center? Maybe better connections to the 11th and 8th subway stops or Jefferson Station? Maybe more street life on the chinatown side as well?
     
     
  #2969  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 12:40 AM
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Living in ships' shadows may be reality

As many as 1.5 million square feet of rental housing could be added to the Navy Yard.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/classif...OvHyY0a0Kih.99
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  #2970  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 4:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cafeguy View Post
But when people talk about it, they just make it sound like its a trashy place. I dunno. Its insulting...maybe not as much of a race thing as it is a class thing.
I agree it's definitely a class thing but with strong racial undercurrents.

But regardless, it is as you say, a) dated, plus b) its stores are generally pretty bad.

a + b = trashy

in my mind, that is.

Having said that, I am uncomfortable with a vague feeling that a kind of non-violent ethnic cleansing is going on here. But I am also uncomfortable that the existing clientele is not really a fair representation of Philadelphia, ethnically, socio-economically, or even age-wise (too many teens and seniors, too few in between).

Reading Terminal, by comparison, magically manages to appeal to all walks of like, and all coexist peacefully and respectfully. In fact, the diversity of clientele at Reading Terminal is a major draw for many, I think.

Why is it that Reading Terminal can be so successful in this sense, in a way the mall never has been?
     
     
  #2971  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 9:01 AM
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Walk around town Sunday....

1100 block Chestnut:
031 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

Family Court, no signs of work whatsoever:
068 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

069 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

073 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

075 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

076 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

Mormon Temple update:
074 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

077 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

079 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

Barriers in place for 676 work:
080 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

065 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

062 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

Parkway improvements:
082 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

1900 Arch extension:
057 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr
     
     
  #2972  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 10:17 AM
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Multi-level addition proposed for 1700 Market. Steakhouse and roof deck:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/t...00-Market.html

Renderings of the project here:
http://www.dasarchitects.com/1700-market.html
     
     
  #2973  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cafeguy View Post
It's really not a bad mall at all as it is right now. It's just old and not updated looking, and it has a big blank wall on market. But when people talk about it, they just make it sound like its a trashy place. I dunno. Its insulting...maybe not as much of a race thing as it is a class thing.

Still, they gotta make more demands on this before they dish out so much money in credits. Credits are necessary, but more needs to be offered to the community than JUST different stores and market-street facades. Even if its some phase three nonsense that includes residential. Maybe stronger connections into the convention center? Maybe better connections to the 11th and 8th subway stops or Jefferson Station? Maybe more street life on the chinatown side as well?
From what Ive read the demands theyve placed on PREIT relate to maintaining public assess for transit and minority participation in the construciton project. I do find the descriptions of the gallery interesting. The mall had a ton of design flaws and it was 30 years out of date. Niether are related to the customers. The reporting on the gallery suggests that the patrons are responsible for the fact that the facility represents an outdated vision of urban shopping.
     
     
  #2974  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 1:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
I agree it's definitely a class thing but with strong racial undercurrents.

But regardless, it is as you say, a) dated, plus b) its stores are generally pretty bad.

a + b = trashy

in my mind, that is.

Having said that, I am uncomfortable with a vague feeling that a kind of non-violent ethnic cleansing is going on here. But I am also uncomfortable that the existing clientele is not really a fair representation of Philadelphia, ethnically, socio-economically, or even age-wise (too many teens and seniors, too few in between).

Reading Terminal, by comparison, magically manages to appeal to all walks of like, and all coexist peacefully and respectfully. In fact, the diversity of clientele at Reading Terminal is a major draw for many, I think.

Why is it that Reading Terminal can be so successful in this sense, in a way the mall never has been?

RTM is HEAVILY supported by tourists who dont mind being gouged on pricing. I really do not that its a regular stop for many average Philadelphians- this one included. Its mobbed with tourists, its loud and its very expensive. As for the store mix in the soon to be closed gallery- most of the stores were chain stores that would be found in other malls or shopping centers. I really don't know that the mix was good or bad. I mean people of all types (even much worshipped millenials) use stores like Old Navy. The Mall itself needed some updates and new attractions- that wasn't happening and thus is was allowed to basically remain unchanged for 30 years- never a recipe for success. I dont think much effort was made to save the Gallery or keep it relevant. The fact that it was owned completely by one entity may have been part of the problem.
     
     
  #2975  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 2:03 PM
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What's being done to the Parkway? Are those granite curbs?
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  #2976  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 2:14 PM
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RTM is HEAVILY supported by tourists who dont mind being gouged on pricing. I really do not that its a regular stop for many average Philadelphians- this one included. Its mobbed with tourists, its loud and its very expensive.
You must not go to RTM much. Zillions of everyday Philly people go there everyday to eat and to buy groceries. The clientele is ridiculously diverse in every sense of the word. By comparison, you'd think the gallery existed in some kind of apartheid system. You can eat far better food in RTM than in the subterranean hell hole of a chain food court at the Gallery for barely any more money. I mean, RTM beats Wendy's and Popeye's () on quality and price any day.

Quote:
As for the store mix in the soon to be closed gallery- most of the stores were chain stores that would be found in other malls or shopping centers.
Most of the stores are/were schlocky local lowest end discount shops that you typically find in really crappy suburban malls or rundown inner city retail strips like Chelten Avenue, 52nd St, 69th Street, east Chestnut Street, Cottman Ave, K&A, Broad & Snyder, or Germantown & Erie. Things like Easy Pickins, Rainbow Shop, City Blue, NET, Samsun, Olympia Sports, Dots, Villa Sports, Ashley Stewert. Throw in 4 or 5 dollar stores, a Modell's, a drug store, Payless Shoes, the ubiquitous Foot Locker, and there you have the Gallery. It might well have been called Philadelphia's sneaker store district.

Old Navy was high end at the Gallery. That was the mall's luxury brand corner right there.

Sure, many of the stores could be found in low end shopping centers. There are/were no mid- or high-end options. Thus it became mobbed by teens interested in junk food, tacky fashion, and sneakers. So virtually no one hung out other than inner city teens and old folks whiling away their days in the food court, save for a few patrons of the methadone clinic across the way looking for some respite.

All those people obviously deserve places to go too, just like the rest of us. But the Gallery had morphed over the decades into a place where only those people would go, and few others.

It just wasn't really representative of the population of the city and/or region as whole. Is it necessary that it become so? No. But it would become, like, the Reading Terminal, a more pleasant place for all if it seems welcoming to all. It remains to be seen as to whether or not that will be the case, but I suspect that there is a good chance that it will. The stores that they speak of bringing in are by no means exclusive or the type that will shun the poor.

Century 21 is a great example of a store with a formula that appeals to a very wide variety of people, perhaps reflecting its roots in the outer boroughs of NYC where segregation is not the problem that it is here in Philadelphia.

PS - you threw down the gauntlet, as far as I'm concerned, when you dissed the RTM. Reading Terminal, in my world, is a no competition top three quintessential definitive Philadelphia locale, along with the Art Museum/Kelly Drive and Rittenhouse Sq. If you can't recognize what Elijah Anderson refers to as an iconic "cosmopolitan urban canopy", yet go around praising Wendy's and making excuses for an apartheid-like Gallery, you need your head examined.

Last edited by Cro Burnham; Apr 20, 2015 at 2:48 PM.
     
     
  #2977  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cro Burnham View Post
Why is it that Reading Terminal can be so successful in this sense, in a way the mall never has been?
Simply? A mall is a mall is a mall is a mall.

And RTM is a truly one-of-a-kind urban experience.

RE: The Gallery
As a center city resident, my biggest complaint with the gallery plan is that it could potentially cannibalize the Walnut Street experience (which is really working now).

The Gallery is the perfect place to add the big box life-style stores that we presently need to drive to Cherry Hill, KOP, or some dingy riverside corner of South Philly to get. (Container Store, Crate and Barrel, Toys R' Us, Best Buy, etc).

In addition, I feel like it's a miss to not include more touristy oriented entertainment experiences - American Girl store or a cinema with an iMAX, etc.

Having gucci/prada offerings isn't going to complement Walnut Street (like having a crate and barrel or a Home Goods would) it's going to compete directly with it and I don't think that's in the best interest of the city.
     
     
  #2978  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 3:33 PM
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Simply? A mall is a mall is a mall is a mall.

And RTM is a truly one-of-a-kind urban experience.

RE: The Gallery
As a center city resident, my biggest complaint with the gallery plan is that it could potentially cannibalize the Walnut Street experience (which is really working now).

The Gallery is the perfect place to add the big box life-style stores that we presently need to drive to Cherry Hill, KOP, or some dingy riverside corner of South Philly to get. (Container Store, Crate and Barrel, Toys R' Us, Best Buy, etc).

In addition, I feel like it's a miss to not include more touristy oriented entertainment experiences - American Girl store or a cinema with an iMAX, etc.

Having gucci/prada offerings isn't going to complement Walnut Street (like having a crate and barrel or a Home Goods would) it's going to compete directly with it and I don't think that's in the best interest of the city.
I agree, some of what they hope to place there either exists already in center city (we already have 2 H&M stores) or will directly compete with West chestnut and walnut streets. If every single section of center city goes after the same types of chain stores targeting the exact same clientele someone is going to lose. You are not going to have all of chestnut, Walnut and market streets at full occupancy when they are all trying to offer the same stores. Many of these stores are only going to offer one location in center city. We still have to fill the new retail at East Market and on 1000 block of chestnut- rest assured they will seeking similar tenants as PREIT. Unlike the majority of people who comment about the gallery, my issue was the blank facade on market street and the general dated appearance. I dont in there much (and wont go in there much after renovations) so Im not an expert like everyone else. Who knew so many people spent hours per week studying demographics of the gallery. im still baffled by the notion that its over run with inner city (we know what that means) teens when they are in school 6-7 hours a day. Not to mention when I did venture in there during working hours I really didnt see many teens loitering or flash mobbing or whatever they supposedly did in there. There is a difference between the gallery being a run down, dangerous place to shop and it being a place where people some dont want to see shopping in Center city often patronized. The two issues seem to be getting conflated by some folks.
     
     
  #2979  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 3:42 PM
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You must not go to RTM much. Zillions of everyday Philly people go there everyday to eat and to buy groceries. The clientele is ridiculously diverse in every sense of the word. By comparison, you'd think the gallery existed in some kind of apartheid system. You can eat far better food in RTM than in the subterranean hell hole of a chain food court at the Gallery for barely any more money. I mean, RTM beats Wendy's and Popeye's () on quality and price any day.



Most of the stores are/were schlocky local lowest end discount shops that you typically find in really crappy suburban malls or rundown inner city retail strips like Chelten Avenue, 52nd St, 69th Street, east Chestnut Street, Cottman Ave, K&A, Broad & Snyder, or Germantown & Erie. Things like Easy Pickins, Rainbow Shop, City Blue, NET, Samsun, Olympia Sports, Dots, Villa Sports, Ashley Stewert. Throw in 4 or 5 dollar stores, a Modell's, a drug store, Payless Shoes, the ubiquitous Foot Locker, and there you have the Gallery. It might well have been called Philadelphia's sneaker store district.

Old Navy was high end at the Gallery. That was the mall's luxury brand corner right there.

Sure, many of the stores could be found in low end shopping centers. There are/were no mid- or high-end options. Thus it became mobbed by teens interested in junk food, tacky fashion, and sneakers. So virtually no one hung out other than inner city teens and old folks whiling away their days in the food court, save for a few patrons of the methadone clinic across the way looking for some respite.

All those people obviously deserve places to go too, just like the rest of us. But the Gallery had morphed over the decades into a place where only those people would go, and few others.

It just wasn't really representative of the population of the city and/or region as whole. Is it necessary that it become so? No. But it would become, like, the Reading Terminal, a more pleasant place for all if it seems welcoming to all. It remains to be seen as to whether or not that will be the case, but I suspect that there is a good chance that it will. The stores that they speak of bringing in are by no means exclusive or the type that will shun the poor.

Century 21 is a great example of a store with a formula that appeals to a very wide variety of people, perhaps reflecting its roots in the outer boroughs of NYC where segregation is not the problem that it is here in Philadelphia.

PS - you threw down the gauntlet, as far as I'm concerned, when you dissed the RTM. Reading Terminal, in my world, is a no competition top three quintessential definitive Philadelphia locale, along with the Art Museum/Kelly Drive and Rittenhouse Sq. If you can't recognize what Elijah Anderson refers to as an iconic "cosmopolitan urban canopy", yet go around praising Wendy's and making excuses for an apartheid-like Gallery, you need your head examined.
I havent seen any studies on demographics of Gallery shoppers- I just know which demographics get all the attention. During lunch time Ive seen a variety of people in the mall (some could just be walking through) and in the anchor stores. Also, not sure that there was a rule that says any shopping district that doesn't have clientele that accurate reflects the city or region should be shut down and remade. Does Walnut west of broad represent the diversity if Philadelphia? Let me know.

BTW, If you bothered to read my previous comment you would notice I said nothing about RTM having low quality food. I said its crowded (hard to sit, long lines, constantly bumping into people) and expensive. I rarely go there or gallery for lunch. RTM is a perfect place to direct tourists, but most people I know who work in CC do not go there for lunch on a regular basis for the reasons I mentioned. Liberty Bell is a nice attraction too- I dont visit there often either.
     
     
  #2980  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2015, 4:47 PM
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9th and Wharton renderings
The development plans for the empty lot across from Pats and Genos. This is what people were complaining about?! This is the perfect development for this lot.



http://www.passyunkpost.com/2015/04/...n-development/
     
     
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