Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[locolife]

Interesting that MLB may now be in the lead for Utah's next major sports franchise, being it seems to be the most difficult of the big leagues for small market teams to compete in. I always thought it would and kind of hoped it would be NHL or NFL. Will SLC draw on Sundays? Do people spend disposable dollars at Real SL or MLB games? How big can the market eventually get? How much are the Millers willing to lose to field a team that can compete with the Dodgers, Yankees, Giants, etc?

Lets see what happens, interesting times in my old hometown. Meanwhile in Phoenix we're waiting to see whether the D'Baks spend up to $400M remodeling their now 25ish year old ballpark or seek another shiny new stadium potentially outside of downtown Phoenix. Like SLC posters on here, I'm really hoping they stay downtown.

Any details on the stadium funding mechanisms?

[bob rulz]

I can't imagine Sunday games would be a concern for the MLB in SLC. It's not like the NFL where you have to draw 60k people 7 or 8 Sundays a year.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by locolife

Interesting that MLB may now be in the lead for Utah's next major sports franchise, being it seems to be the most difficult of the big leagues for small market teams to compete in. I always thought it would and kind of hoped it would be NHL or NFL. Will SLC draw on Sundays? Do people spend disposable dollars at Real SL or MLB games? How big can the market eventually get? How much are the Millers willing to lose to field a team that can compete with the Dodgers, Yankees, Giants, etc?

Lets see what happens, interesting times in my old hometown. Meanwhile in Phoenix we're waiting to see whether the D'Baks spend up to $400M remodeling their now 25ish year old ballpark or seek another shiny new stadium potentially outside of downtown Phoenix. Like SLC posters on here, I'm really hoping they stay downtown.

Any details on the stadium funding mechanisms?

Thinking they’ll be fine in terms of fan support. There are teams in Cincinnati and Cleveland that have similar metro populations. Denver metro 25 years ago when the Rockies came to town was probably around or a little less than SLC current metro population. Biggest problem like any major league sports in competing with the big markets (Dodgers, Giants etc.) is SLC like Denver is a fly over city. Your only hope at competing is to have a fantastic ownership group that puts the right people in place - the general manager drafting above average players and having an a great farm system, and a great coach.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I can't imagine Sunday games would be a concern for the MLB in SLC. It's not like the NFL where you have to draw 60k people 7 or 8 Sundays a year.

I imagine they would promote a Sunday Game Season Ticket package. They’d be dumb not to. As for keeping things downtown, I think that the RMP site is plenty “downtown” for baseball given the amount of land needed for the stadium but I agree that NBA is better kept in the true CBD. Regarding funding, I think the state is willing to help out with tax incentives and infrastructure but not $ to fund the stadium itself — at least that’s what the governor has said. Interesting times, we’ll see.

[Comrade]

The Salt Lake Bees averaged 5,873 last season. A team like Pittsburgh, which is an entrenched MLB franchise, and similar to SLC in size, is averaging 16,863. It's hard to imagine Salt Lake not at least matching that - if not surpassing it.

And that 5,873 number is a bit down from where it used to be. Ten years ago, the Bees were averaging over 7,000 a game. I could easily see Salt Lake averaging 30,000 a game, which would put 'em right in the middle of the league.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by locolife

Will SLC draw on Sundays?

Yes. Absolutely. If places stayed open later than 2am or if there was anything to do on Sundays, you bet people would show. Games would be huge here… if they ever happen. There’s not much city pride here, but people sure do love the Jazz and college football, not to mention the Bees.

Last night I wrapped on a film shoot around 1:00am. The whole crew was down to have a make-shift wrap party at a nearby bar but it’s just not possible here, not even on a Saturday night. We had one talent, a kid from Iowa, and he was shocked. We teased him a bit for being from a flat boring void but he sure had a laugh at us too.

[Comrade]

Yeah with last call being at 1am, it really limits the night life. I think that's one thing I wish would be rolled back a bit - at least during the spring/summer months.

Salt Lake has one of the weakest last calls of any "major" US city.

It's funny. I was scrolling through tiktok last night after getting home and there's a few live streamers from LA. Nashville and Seattle who ride around the main entertainment areas of the city streaming live. It was like 2:00am SLC time, so, 1am in Seattle and LA and I think 3am in Nashville. It was crazy how many people were still out on the streets.

Salt Lake has stepped up its game since I joined SSP back a long fucking time ago, and it's cool to see the nightlife growing downtown. But it's still very limited.

[Rileybo]

Those who haven’t visited SLC in twenty years or more wouldn’t have much reason to believe night life has changed at all. There aren’t any national headlines: “Salt Lake’s Nightlife Now Slightly Less Boring”

Any of you remember this great The Onion bit?

Salt Lake City Hoping To Boost Tourism By Reminding Visitors They’re Free To Leave At Any Time
Published August 21, 2014

SALT LAKE CITY—In a move designed to help the metropolitan area attract more tourists, Salt Lake City officials unveiled a new advertising campaign Thursday reminding potential visitors that they can leave at any time. “With our new ‘Free to Leave’ campaign, we’re letting the world know that when you visit Salt Lake City, you can get out whenever you want, day or night, whether you’ve only been here for a couple of hours or a couple of days,” Mayor Ralph Becker said, emphasizing that the city’s main attractions are all conveniently located near train stations, airports, and a number of major highways. “The award-winning Hogle Zoo, Red Butte Garden and Arboretum, the Natural History Museum of Utah—these are all places you can up and leave any moment you please. And as you stroll through world-famous Temple Square, you can rest assured in knowing that, if you just hop on I-80, you can be in Nevada in about 90 minutes.” The city’s tourism officials added that if visitors don’t feel like it, they don’t even have to come at all.

The companion video is even better: https://www.theonion.com/salt-lake-c...vis-1819595701

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

Those who haven’t visited SLC in twenty years or more wouldn’t have much reason to believe night life has changed at all. There aren’t any national headlines: “Salt Lake’s Nightlife Now Slightly Less Boring”

Any of you remember this great The Onion bit?

Salt Lake City Hoping To Boost Tourism By Reminding Visitors They’re Free To Leave At Any Time
Published August 21, 2014

SALT LAKE CITY—In a move designed to help the metropolitan area attract more tourists, Salt Lake City officials unveiled a new advertising campaign Thursday reminding potential visitors that they can leave at any time. “With our new ‘Free to Leave’ campaign, we’re letting the world know that when you visit Salt Lake City, you can get out whenever you want, day or night, whether you’ve only been here for a couple of hours or a couple of days,” Mayor Ralph Becker said, emphasizing that the city’s main attractions are all conveniently located near train stations, airports, and a number of major highways. “The award-winning Hogle Zoo, Red Butte Garden and Arboretum, the Natural History Museum of Utah—these are all places you can up and leave any moment you please. And as you stroll through world-famous Temple Square, you can rest assured in knowing that, if you just hop on I-80, you can be in Nevada in about 90 minutes.” The city’s tourism officials added that if visitors don’t feel like it, they don’t even have to come at all.

The companion video is even better: https://www.theonion.com/salt-lake-c...vis-1819595701

You really need to get out more. To see the bar scene you need to, you know, go out to bars. That's how it works. That's also how I know you dont go out to bars, or at least very infrequently. The good ones, and many of the not so good ones, are absolutely SLAMMED on weekends. I own several bars here and so do a number of other forum members. Many of our bars in SLC do volumes that match or exceed what bars in Manhattan/LA etc do in $ PSF. I know because I know lots of bar owners in other markets and I see their sales. Many of us have staked our lives on bars in Salt Lake City.

Speaking of the past, SLC has had a storied history of legendary bars and music venues. Many of us lament the passing of legacy places like the Zephyr, DV8, Dead Goat, Speedway Cafe, Port O Call (The number one tap beer sales location in the Western United States for over 10 consecutive years, read that again). Salt Lake City has always been a sneaky fun bar town, albeit with quirky and backward stupid liquor laws. What we have is a weak CLUB scene. There's a difference there. But CLUBS aren't my thing so that doesn't really matter to me (it does to some). There are no less than 50 new bars and restaurants in the works in the downtown area. The attitude above is not helpful and frankly it's sort of ignorant. But all too common.

On the 1am thing I'd put it at or near the very bottom of my concerns for our liquor laws. 2am would be nice. But the percentage of trouble triples past 1am. I drink all over the world and many of the worlds best bars close at 11pm or 12am, especially in the UK and Europe. It's fine. Have a night cap at home. You'll thank me later.

[Rileybo]

Yeah, the bars are often packed. (Congrats btw) The party would continue later if it was allowed. I was with pals at A Bar Named Sue last weekend and as soon as the train felt like it started moving, last call came and we all went home more or less. And it’s always been that way in Utah. I’m not one to give a shit about the club scene, but others and I would love more late night activities than just some okay-neat bars that settle early.

I was saying that outside visitors who haven’t seen the city in 20+ years probably assume that this place is still much the same as then, which it honestly is.. don’t get me wrong it’s better now. Most Americans are pretty ignorant about the details of SLC and Utah.

Honestly though, the people you choose to spend your time with have more to do with how much fun you’ll have than whatever place you decide to be at.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The Salt Lake Bees averaged 5,873 last season. A team like Pittsburgh, which is an entrenched MLB franchise, and similar to SLC in size, is averaging 16,863. It's hard to imagine Salt Lake not at least matching that - if not surpassing it.

And that 5,873 number is a bit down from where it used to be. Ten years ago, the Bees were averaging over 7,000 a game. I could easily see Salt Lake averaging 30,000 a game, which would put 'em right in the middle of the league.

30,000 a game means 2.4M people attend for the season which is almost every person in the CSA going one time. I'm sure the first few years would be amazing, what happens 10 years in especially if it's a struggle to compete with the Dodgers/Giants/Yankees of the league? That attendance being consistent while a team is competing with UofU and BYU football starting in late August each year and the Jazz each spring, assuming the Jazz make playoff runs into May potentially. You've also got Real Salt Lake in the summer months of course. Summer vacation season, where families love to head up to the mountains while kids are out of school. If they're good I'm sure attendance will be great, if not I'm not so sure.

How will matinee games draw at 1pm on a 96-100 degree SLC summer day? Just some real life implications to think about, I live in a very saturated sports market now, just warning not to ruin a good thing by adding too much of it. Every new sport will pull away from the others.

I have no control over what will happen but would hate to see NHL and MLB come to town and be a negative impact on the great game day energy and potentially competitiveness of the Jazz, Utes, etc..

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by locolife

I have no control over what will happen but would hate to see NHL and MLB come to town and be a negative impact on the great game day energy and potentially competitiveness of the Jazz, Utes, etc..

I think there are loads of people who would support MLB and NHL teams without affecting the Utes/Jazz attendance much. NFL on top of that would be another animal and would probably be too much. I actually think an NFL team coming to SLC would take the wind out of the Holy War rivalry in a big way by superseding Utah/BYU football in importance.

Nice shot of downtown SLC density on this KSL article:



Astra is filling that gap nicely by now.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by locolife

30,000 a game means 2.4M people attend for the season which is almost every person in the CSA going one time. I'm sure the first few years would be amazing, what happens 10 years in especially if it's a struggle to compete with the Dodgers/Giants/Yankees of the league? That attendance being consistent while a team is competing with UofU and BYU football starting in late August each year and the Jazz each spring, assuming the Jazz make playoff runs into May potentially. You've also got Real Salt Lake in the summer months of course. Summer vacation season, where families love to head up to the mountains while kids are out of school. If they're good I'm sure attendance will be great, if not I'm not so sure.

How will matinee games draw at 1pm on a 96-100 degree SLC summer day? Just some real life implications to think about, I live in a very saturated sports market now, just warning not to ruin a good thing by adding too much of it. Every new sport will pull away from the others.

I have no control over what will happen but would hate to see NHL and MLB come to town and be a negative impact on the great game day energy and potentially competitiveness of the Jazz, Utes, etc..

This post is kind of a mess to be honest.

To start, your first comment is illogical. Any assumption that, to hit that number, it would require every person in the CSA to attend once is ... just weird. It discounts multiple things like:

1. Season ticket holders who will routinely attend multiple times a season.

2. Non-season ticket holders who will routinely attend multiple times a season.

3. Interested people from outside the Salt Lake area who might be interested in watching a MLB game now that it's in close proximity - including residents in Nevada, Southern Idaho and Western Wyoming.

4. Out of state fans who make the journey, which is a lot when it comes to the MLB.

Certainly, every game isn't going to have 30,000 different fans each night. That's just absurd to think if we're being honest.

Everything else is just extreme speculation on your end and really disproven rather easily by how solid the Bees have drawn over the years despite being a minor league team.

Finally, this might be a good thing for the Jazz. I don't understand your comment about the competitiveness of the Jazz. If anything, having a monopoly on the major league sports market in Utah has allowed for them to be largely mediocre over the last 23 years. There's no direct competition that hurts their bottom line, so they can get away with it.

A competitive baseball team that actually offers a major league alternative could be a solid kick in the butt the franchise needs to actually build a contender and not a team that has been a quick out in the playoffs this century.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I think there are loads of people who would support MLB and NHL teams without affecting the Utes/Jazz attendance much. NFL on top of that would be another animal and would probably be too much. I actually think an NFL team coming to SLC would take the wind out of the Holy War rivalry in a big way by superseding Utah/BYU football in importance.

Agreed. I think the NFL would have a significant impact on college football locally. That's an area where Utah and BYU likely would struggle to adapt and compete against.

The MLB is a different beast. Tickets are generally cheap (beyond limited moments) and is more family-driven than college football.

The Jazz would be impacted but again, they're wholly different sports that attract different styles. To be honest, I think a NHL team would negatively impact the Jazz more since their seasons overlap and they're semi-similar games (only in the sense they have similar season lengths and indoor), so, I do disagree with you there.

But I said said above: I think it would benefit the Jazz to have a major league competitor - especially a good one. They're unchallenged and have been their entire history here. That breeds complacency when they're the only major league show in town.

[bob rulz]

I think it's pretty ridiculous to assume the Jazz are complacent. No the Jazz haven't won a championship, but I think their management has been pretty good at bringing in talent considering Salt Lake City might be the least appealing free agent destination in the country (fair or not, that's the perception). For such a small-market team in what's considered an unappealing market, the fact that the Jazz have even been consistently competitive is impressive.

Anyway, I think the MLB would do great here. We are plenty big enough and people in Utah go crazy about sports. I think it's pretty absurd to say that they would "compete" with the Jazz, considering there are plenty of people who would happily attend both, they are very different sports, and they don't even play in the same season.

NHL is probably 50/50 on how well it would do here.

Any talk of the NFL coming here is nothing more than a pipe dream.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I think it's pretty ridiculous to assume the Jazz are complacent. No the Jazz haven't won a championship, but I think their management has been pretty good at bringing in talent considering Salt Lake City might be the least appealing free agent destination in the country (fair or not, that's the perception). For such a small-market team in what's considered an unappealing market, the fact that the Jazz have even been consistently competitive is impressive.

Anyway, I think the MLB would do great here. We are plenty big enough and people in Utah go crazy about sports. I think it's pretty absurd to say that they would "compete" with the Jazz, considering there are plenty of people who would happily attend both, they are very different sports, and they don't even play in the same season.

NHL is probably 50/50 on how well it would do here.

Any talk of the NFL coming here is nothing more than a pipe dream.

Hey you're free to think what you want.

The reality is that the Jazz, in the 21st Century, have one of the worst playoff records of any team who's made the postseason at least ten seasons. The complacency is real: they can get away with just being good enough because there is no direct competition to the fandom. Even with Utah football having the run they've had the last 20 years, the Jazz still remain the top team in the state solely because they don't have any level of major league competition (RSL and the MLS is still a step behind the other major league sports).

The complacency is born out of that fact. I am hopeful Ryan Smith changes it but having a bit of competition in the major league ranks absolutely puts pressure on the Jazz to win more than they've won the last 23 years - or they risk ceding their position as the top team in the state.

If a MLB team comes into Salt Lake, even if they don't see much overlap schedule-wise, and have strong success out of the gate (which can happen - just look at the Marlines and Diamondbacks when they joined the MLB), the Jazz being a team that does absolutely nothing in the playoffs is going to take a hit.

In fact, the Jazz should be thankful it's not a NHL team coming into the market because that direct competition, if they are successful (and the NHL does seem to have a better success rate in smaller markets) means just making the playoffs as a fifth seed and getting knocked out in the first or second round isn't going to keep the attention of the fan base.

[nushiof]

The Jazz have the 5th most regular season wins of all NBA teams since 2000 behind, spurs, Mavs, heat, and Celtics. Even more than the Lakers!! I wish they had gone further in the playoffs but they have been punching way above their weight for a good 3 decades now. Hopefully the Ainge rebuild will get us another good run at a championship.

I don’t think MLB would have any negative impact on the Jazz. If anything it probably just improves perceptions of the SLC market in general as more of a legitimate city.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by nushiof

The Jazz have the 5th most regular season wins of all NBA teams since 2000 behind, spurs, Mavs, heat, and Celtics. Even more than the Lakers!! I wish they had gone further in the playoffs but they have been punching way above their weight for a good 3 decades now. Hopefully the Ainge rebuild will get us another good run at a championship.

I don’t think MLB would have any negative impact on the Jazz. If anything it probably just improves perceptions of the SLC market in general as more of a legitimate city.

This really hammers home my point. The Jazz, for all their regular season success, have nothing to show for it.

You're right. Since 2000, Utah has the fifth most wins of any NBA team.

Guess how many teams have more playoff series wins over that same stretch, though?

15 teams.

That discrepancy is really embarrassing.

The Jazz have always been good at just being okay and rarely any better since the last century ended.

Since 2000, here's the Jazz' finish each year in the Western Conference:

2000: 2nd
2001: 4th
2002: 8th
2003: 7th
2004: 9th
2005: 14th
2006: 9th
2007: 5th*
2008: 5th*
2009: 6th
2010: 5th
2011: 11th
2012: 8th
2013: 9th
2014: 15th
2015: 11th
2016: 9th
2017: 5th
2018: 5th
2019: 5th
2020: 6th
2021: 1st
2022: 5th

2007 & 2008 I put as fifth because Utah had the fifth-best record in the West that year but received the 4th seed technically because they won the Northwest (despite still not getting home court in either of those series).

Since 2000, Utah has finished in the top-three of the West just twice: 2000 and 2021. Both years, they were unceremoniously bounced in the second-round.

Lots of finishing right in the middle of the NBA playoff bracket.

Only Sacramento, Minnesota and New Orleans have a longer Conference Finals drought than the Jazz - and I could see the Kings breaking that drought this year.

Utah, for all their season accolades, is a pretty pitiful playoff team and that's where things matter.

Who cares if Utah wins 50 gams and finishes 5th if they're going to just get bounced in the first-round anyway? It is complacency that allows the franchise to stick with fairly mediocre results for as long as they have.

[bob rulz]

I don't think that's for a lack of trying, and I also don't really see how having another professional sports team would change that. I don't really think if the MLB comes to Salt Lake City that they're going to be competing for fans. You're either going to be fans of both of them, or just 1 of them because you either don't like one of the sports or you're already a fan of another MLB team. Maybe your level of investment in each could change depending on success, but if an MLB team comes in and is amazing very quickly and the Jazz are underwhelming, I don't see the Jazz suddenly losing a bunch of support just because there's a baseball team doing better. I don't think that's really how sports fandom works.

[Jbash]

Originally Posted by nushiof

The Jazz have the 5th most regular season wins of all NBA teams since 2000 behind, spurs, Mavs, heat, and Celtics. Even more than the Lakers!! I wish they had gone further in the playoffs but they have been punching way above their weight for a good 3 decades now. Hopefully the Ainge rebuild will get us another good run at a championship.

I don’t think MLB would have any negative impact on the Jazz. If anything it probably just improves perceptions of the SLC market in general as more of a legitimate city.

Yeah that last point is a great one. People in Utah are crazy about their Jazz. I've seen surprisingly large amounts of support across social media for getting a new team, and I'm sure the crazy Jazz fans would love to be crazy MLB fans. There are plenty of people out there who want to be proud of Utah, and getting a new professional sports team would be a big boost of confidence in our states image. Vivint arena is regularly filled, and I'm sure for the first few years, we could regularly fill an MLB stadium, even if its just for the shiny new toy factor. Those first few years will give this new team time to build up a name and a fanbase for itself, and with Utahs rapidly growing population, each new year there will be thousands of new possible fans to help fill those seats for the forseeable future. The Millers have a solid track record of managing pro sports teams, so I don't really see the possibility of the team going under. I genuinely think all the conditions are right for this to work. Shovel ready site, dozens of backers, widespread public support, a growing, young and active population, strong local economy, great transit access for a metro of our size, an improving nightlife scene.....I could go on, the point is, I'm all for an MLB team. I think it's a great marker to kind of symbolize the growth of SLC and Utah throughout the years. Getting a new pro sports franchise is like a celebratory ritual for growing up if you will