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  #23821  
Old Posted Yesterday, 2:02 PM
dreambrother808 dreambrother808 is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
CPC doesn’t have a taxpayer funded media wing like the Libs with their CBC and number one cheerleader and mouthpiece Rosemary Barton!
What percentage of the population even watches the CBC anymore? This is not that impactful and citing it as the difference once again evades the real reasons, which conservatives don't want to face because it would mean they have to CHANGE. Much easier to find an outside target to blame.
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  #23822  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:08 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Looking forward to the mental gymnastics of CPC supporters who convinced themselves the carbon tax was the worst policy in the world for years.
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  #23823  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:34 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Looking forward to the mental gymnastics of CPC supporters who convinced themselves the carbon tax was the worst policy in the world for years.
I applaud them for coming around on carbon pricing. It's just ridiculous that they replaced a tax rebate with O'Toole Petro Points.

I'm really sick of this nonsense where parties come up with a shittier policy just because they can't admit their opponents got something right.
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  #23824  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
CPC doesn’t have a taxpayer funded media wing like the Libs with their CBC and number one cheerleader and mouthpiece Rosemary Barton!
selfie socks Selfie Socks SELFIE SOCKS!!!!
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  #23825  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Looking forward to the mental gymnastics of CPC supporters who convinced themselves the carbon tax was the worst policy in the world for years.
If you don't like the fact that a reliance on fossil fuels is dangerously warming the world, simply deny it. And when challenged, don't produce evidence, just become louder and more shrill.
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  #23826  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
They went full retard after he left...

He's actually part of the reason they are losing so badly. They keep thinking his positions are sacrosanct because he won with them. But they just aren't tenable in the 2020s with a different electorate. Their inability to adapt will be their downfall.
Right, and the Liberals were practically wiped out in 2011 because they weren't tenable in the 2010s, were being squeezed from both sides and stood for nothing. That's why they never tasted power again.

These predictions never come true. We have essentially the same two parties exchanging places as #1 and #2 that we did in 1867. There have been some short-lived challenges to that pattern over the years, but they've never come to much.
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  #23827  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
These predictions never come true. We have essentially the same two parties exchanging places as #1 and #2 that we did in 1867. There have been some short-lived challenges to that pattern over the years, but they've never come to much.
The policy differences between the Liberals and Conservatives seem small. Small enough that the median voter can easily jump ship if they lose confidence in the Liberals for one reason or another (probably due to corruption as they get tired of ice cold camembert and broken crackers). The Conservative platform has evolved a lot since the Harper years, generally moving in the same direction as the Liberals. For example they dropped opposition to same-sex marriage years ago and say that if elected they won't touch marijuana legalization. Harper's government was pretty antagonistic toward legalization and harm reduction type drug policy in general. I assume we are headed down a path toward drug policy liberalization and the end of the war on drugs which is an important social issue (QALY loss due to fentanyl poisoning and overdose deaths in BC was many times higher than covid deaths in 2020).

What's the net difference to the world's climate going to be under a Conservative majority starting in 2021 vs. Liberal majority starting in 2021?
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  #23828  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
What percentage of the population even watches the CBC anymore? This is not that impactful and citing it as the difference once again evades the real reasons, which conservatives don't want to face because it would mean they have to CHANGE. Much easier to find an outside target to blame.
Got to hand it to the Liberals, they knew exactly what they were doing when they paid off the Canadian media, even more so now during the pandemic with media now dependent on tax dollars!
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  #23829  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:54 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
Right, and the Liberals were practically wiped out in 2011 because they weren't tenable in the 2010s, were being squeezed from both sides and stood for nothing. That's why they never tasted power again.

These predictions never come true.
Not suggesting they are going to be wiped out or anything. But they're in for a hard time. Until they actually change on a few things.

The problem is that the stuff they have to pivot on is the very same stuff the base hates. Let's go back to the carbon tax. Stephane Dion first proposed it under the Green Shift. Harper called it "job killing" and said he'd only do a cap and trade in the US. Then the financial crisis happened and everyone forgot about cap and trade. When the NDP then started proposing cap-and-trade, Harper then pivoted to labelling all carbon pricing as job killing and moved to weaponized climate inaction as a wedge issue. And now the base has been programmed for over a decade to believe all carbon taxes are bad, while millennials are moving into regular voting age and starting to take up residence in those suburban swing voter belts. So the CPC is really stuck between the base that is stuck on Harper's decade old messaging and swing voters who basically write off parties that don't take climate change seriously.

There's some equally contentious stuff brewing on LGBTQ issues like banning conversion therapy.

And in the background of all this is Trumpism that has convinced a good chunk of the CPC that being a hard nosed populist can win elections. Despite the fact that our parliamentary system and population distribution make it exceedingly hard for populism to succeed nationally.
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  #23830  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
There's some equally contentious stuff brewing on LGBTQ issues like banning conversion therapy.
Erin O'Toole said he was in favour of the conversion therapy ban, but allowed a free vote. The Conservatives ended up 96 in favour and 7 against: https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/14

Is there some update on this issue?
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  #23831  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:52 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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These free votes (conversion therapy, abortion, etc) are increasingly out of touch with the bulk of the electorate and particularly risk isolating swing voters. I would argue that this resurgence of public social conservatism is at least partly responsible for the gender gap in the polls.
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  #23832  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
These free votes (conversion therapy, abortion, etc) are increasingly out of touch with the bulk of the electorate and particularly risk isolating swing voters. I would argue that this resurgence of public social conservatism is at least partly responsible for the gender gap in the polls.
I don't even know what the resurgent socially conservative perspective is on sex-selective abortions. Supposedly the conservative view is that all abortions are bad, right? The sex-selective abortion ban is more of a progressive dilemma since it conflicts with pro choice.
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  #23833  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:46 PM
Takeoff Takeoff is offline
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Originally Posted by Andy6 View Post
Right, and the Liberals were practically wiped out in 2011 because they weren't tenable in the 2010s, were being squeezed from both sides and stood for nothing. That's why they never tasted power again.

These predictions never come true. We have essentially the same two parties exchanging places as #1 and #2 that we did in 1867. There have been some short-lived challenges to that pattern over the years, but they've never come to much.
I don't think what is happened with the Liberals in 2011 is the same thing that is happening with the cons. The Libs lost because they had voter fatigue, a decently popular Harper at the time, a extremely popular Layton, and also running a proud American as their PM candidate. It wasn't about the electorate rather it was a horribly ran campaign with an unfavorable electoral conditions. I mean if it wasn't for the extreme popularity of the Trudeau name, we might have been talking about a Mulcair government as he was leading the polls until the last few week where he withered and died over the Niqab. Contrast this with the 2019 election, where you had a PM mired in scandals, and an unknown Singh, they still lost the election by some 30 seats. At that point you have to ask, is the electorate that we are targeting going to put us in power.
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  #23834  
Old Posted Today, 12:38 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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I don't even know what the resurgent socially conservative perspective is on sex-selective abortions. Supposedly the conservative view is that all abortions are bad, right? The sex-selective abortion ban is more of a progressive dilemma since it conflicts with pro choice.
I think most people see it as a trojan horse. After all, how is anybody going to know which abortions are sex-selective?
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  #23835  
Old Posted Today, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I think most people see it as a trojan horse. After all, how is anybody going to know which abortions are sex-selective?
Sure, it's a wedge issue. Both parties try to create them and the media do not distinguish much between these and substantive policies. The most politically useful wedge issues have a kernel of truth to them but can be blown out of proportion (usually by applying emotional moral arguments) and straddle fault lines within the opposing party. Another example is the conversion therapy bill.
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  #23836  
Old Posted Today, 12:49 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Sure, it's a wedge issue. Both parties try to create them and the media do not distinguish much between these and substantive policies. The most politically useful wedge issues have a kernel of truth to them but can be blown out of proportion and straddle fault lines within the opposing party.
Wedge issue work if they separate voters from the other side. All the CPC seems to be accomplishing lately (if polls are to be believed) is turning off lots of women and not moving many suburbanites over. That has me questioning if these wedges are actually effective.
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