PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Again I would much prefer for all the empty spaces we see in-between all of these row homes to 100% be replaced with an exact replica of what was there, but we don't live in that reality at least not anymore. .

The big difference is that the historical homes were there and were replaced by these. They weren't long torn down vacant lots. For vacant lots, I do agree with you, but we need to incentivize reusing old structures. Not saying these would be included but more parts of UCity/West Philly need historic districts.

That Campus Apartments headquarters project is another example. It's great we're getting the headquarters, but at the expense of the historic buildings, I don't know.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

The big difference is that the historical homes were there and were replaced by these. They weren't long torn down vacant lots. For vacant lots, I do agree with you, but we need to incentivize reusing old structures. Not saying these would be included but more parts of UCity/West Philly need historic districts.

That Campus Apartments headquarters project is another example. It's great we're getting the headquarters, but at the expense of the historic buildings, I don't know.

I was gonna include abandoned or underused structures as well but I don't know the condition of the previous structures that were there beforehand.

Now we also come to a loop

Preserve historical structures or continue to increase density.

Would we be as mad if that old home was torn down & replaced on Broad St for a higher density project? we probably wouldn't care as much. This being in a neighborhood its a little more sensitive.

I think the way to tackle not having ugly shit boxes like this in neighborhoods would be to have some type of minimum construction standards for areas that have majority of their historical homes still intact so that you are either replacing a structure to match the structures in the neighborhood or when you build a new structure it matches the design of the neighborhood, for neighborhoods that are wastelands that ordinance shouldn't be in effect.

But then you have the issue of projects not being proposed in the zone or being shot done by the committee.

But now that I think of it that exists right? Historical committee?

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

100% The new building has more human function while the old ones have more design function.

Yes the new building is ugly as hell, and a snickers wrapper on the ground has more flavor than that building has.

However that new building functions way better for humans than all the homes on that block.


Physical function > Design Function

The new building does not "[function] way better for humans." Human beings need beauty in our lives. We have plenty of room to house everyone without replacing gorgeous homes with this dystopian dreck. Everyone involved in this should be deeply ashamed.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Justin7

The new building does not "[function] way better for humans." Human beings need beauty in our lives. We have plenty of room to house everyone without replacing gorgeous homes with this dystopian dreck. Everyone involved in this should be deeply ashamed.

You're not serious are you?

Yea im sure the cornices help with helping people in wheel chairs get in the building, and the bay windows provide way better insulation for these 100 year homes. I'm sure the beauty of this crib also provides space for closets and actual outlets in every room as well.

I'm sorry the old homes are beautiful to look at but they do not function in this time unless they are heavily rehabbed which 95% of them are not.

So yes the new structures function better then an empty lot or old house.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

You're not serious are you?

Yea im sure the cornices help with helping people in wheel chairs get in the building, and the bay windows provide way better insulation for these 100 year homes. I'm sure the beauty of this crib also provides space for closets and actual outlets in every room as well.

I'm sorry the old homes are beautiful to look at but they do not function in this time unless they are heavily rehabbed which 95% of them are not.

So yes the new structures function better then an empty lot or old house.

You're underestimating - more likely not even considering - the psychological impacts of living somewhere surrounded by beauty as compared to living in the shadow of an undesigned aluminum box of maximized ROI for some soulless developer who cares nothing for the community he is sacrificing to make a dollar.

This is more than a surface level discussion to be had on a message board, and I don't want to be one of those people who says "do your research," but you need to dig a little deeper on this one.



(Side note: I'm not an electrician or a carpenter, but I could have personally added a ramp and some outlets in a weekend or two if necessary... and god forbid people not fill huge closets with mountains of polyester. These are not insurmountable problems.)

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Justin7

You're underestimating - more likely not even considering - the psychological impacts of living somewhere surrounded by beauty as compared to living in the shadow of an undesigned aluminum box of maximized ROI for some soulless developer who cares nothing for the community he is sacrificing to make a dollar.

This is more than a surface level discussion to be had on a message board, and I don't want to be one of those people who says "do your research," but you need to dig a little deeper on this one.



(Side note: I'm not an electrician or a carpenter, but I could have personally added a ramp and some outlets in a weekend or two if necessary... and god forbid people not fill huge closets with mountains of polyester. These are not insurmountable problems.)

Ok, I understand that "beauty" or your environment can effect the perception of how someone views or feels about something, since you wanna go that route, there are historic homes located all through the hood, I guess the architecture of them overlooks the fact that they are falling apart and make the area look worse.

When im on the most prominent blocks in the city such as lets say Pine St in Old city I do see the beautiful architecture of the homes and how well maintained they are, but you know what I notice more in the neighborhood.

Treelined sidewalks

Flowers hanging on lamp posts or in front of homes

Maintained sidewalks and streets

Small businesses flourishing

Greenery in the area.

Now that's just what I view but when I see a healthy neighborhood I see those things before I notice a new construction house that's built without style.

I never said that that aluminum shitbox was anything close to style, and in fact would love for us to put architecture back in to what we build, but we need to be realistic on the times now and how it goes.

Throw some flower boxes in the windows of that new construction, add some color on the panels, plant some tree on the block, and clean the street up. you'll notice all that before you even think of how ugly it is.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Construction Complete At 3609 Spring Garden Street on the border of Powelton Village and Mantua





Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/10/cons...ladelphia.html

Yes this is atrocious. I'd be okay with demo'ing to make way for some uber cool contemporary all glass building that would give a nice architectural contrast between new and old. But in this case, the new structure is like a dorm or military barracks, i.e., the cheapest, most utilitarian way to house students.

Maybe the best approach is to broadly protect more historical structures/blocks/districts while at the same time giving developers a free hand in places where historical protection is not needed. For example, no demolishing anything in Society Hill but those no-mans-land blocks between Vine and Spring Garden, anything goes.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

It makes the heart hurt to see such indifference to historic context, form, craft, detail, etc.

Maybe I'm just depressed but it really is the kind of thing that has you asking where did mankind go wrong.

Big question, but the short answer is that it has lost a sense of what is true, good, and beautiful (or that such things even objectively exist). A longer answer would probably get contentious, so here endeth the lesson.

[mcgrath618]

Can we even assume an architect designed that structure? It pays no mind to its surroundings or even its own materials. It is four walls and a roof, nothing more.

I highly contest the idea that some how the new build is more functional than the older rowhomes. There’s literally no reality in which I’d prefer a city of the new building than the old.

[Knight Hospitaller]

BTW, to see a reasonable approach to "how it's done" on a budget, I think the Centennial Village project near the Mann (52nd and Parkside) is harmonious and inoffensive. Some (obviously) new (but "sympathetic") construction and empty lot infill, along with OK rehabs.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Can we even assume an architect designed that structure? It pays no mind to its surroundings or even its own materials. It is four walls and a roof, nothing more.

I highly contest the idea that some how the new build is more functional than the older rowhomes. There’s literally no reality in which I’d prefer a city of the new building than the old.

It's truly soul-crushing even to behold. I can't imagine that its supposed "functionality" inside is any more edifying.

[PHLtoNYC]

The Neon Museum of Philadelphia is closing its doors as it searches for new home

https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20221010.html

The Neon Museum of Philadelphia said on Friday that it will close its space at the NextFab Building in December. The location, where the museum, opened in April 2021, was envisioned as a permanent home after decades of searching for somewhere to display its celebrated collection of vintage Philly neon.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

I went to the Neon Museum a few months ago and this doesn't surprise me. The location is not good at all. The actual space they occupied was tiny, and hard to find. The pieces were stacked vertically to make the most use of the space, but it made them hard to see. The biggest issue was that it was far away from any real foot traffic.

It's a good collection so I hope they find a good home. The location and the space itself did them no favors.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

I went to the Neon Museum a few months ago and this doesn't surprise me. The location is not good at all. The actual space they occupied was tiny, and hard to find. The pieces were stacked vertically to make the most use of the space, but it made them hard to see. The biggest issue was that it was far away from any real foot traffic.

It's a good collection so I hope they find a good home. The location and the space itself did them no favors.

If cost allows, this would be cool in Old City area.

[AnEmperorPenguin]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

You're not serious are you?

You just simply don't understand the real issue here! Sure new buildings might be more accessible, be safer, more insulated, etc. etc, but someone might not like how it looks!*

*they do not have to look at it

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

100% The new building has more human function while the old ones have more design function.

Yes the new building is ugly as hell, and a snickers wrapper on the ground has more flavor than that building has.

However that new building functions way better for humans than all the homes on that block.


Physical function > Design Function

You are describing an artless world. Take the function over form premise to the extreme and it leads to a very dismal place. A place that smothers the spirit instead of uplifting it. You can live without love. You can exist without happiness, fulfilment or joy. But would you want to?

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin

You just simply don't understand the real issue here! Sure new buildings might be more accessible, be safer, more insulated, etc. etc, but someone might not like how it looks!*

*they do not have to look at it

The only one of those that bears any weight is accessibility. I highly doubt there's more than just Tyvek wrap insulating that new construction.

As for the second half of your comment, do you take no pride living in Philadelphia? We have some of the richest architectural heritage in the world. Not every project has to be a Hale, but when a structure like this goes up that doesn't even try, it's insulting.

I really hope your next door neighbor builds an eyesore so that you have to look at it all of the time.

[AnEmperorPenguin]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

As for the second half of your comment, do you take no pride living in Philadelphia?

Old buildings have nothing to do with the pride or spirit or whatever of Philadelphia, these same grandiose (and frankly delusional) comments about the doom of modern architecture are always made, in 100 years people will bemoan the lost art of beautiful 5 over 1s or something equally as dumb.

One of the nice things about living in Philadelphia compared to other cities like NYC or Boston is that you can actually get modern housing at a reasonable price, in places where they preserve everything they can that's not the case!


And I already live next to an eyesore, an abandoned gas station thats historically registered or whatever so the land has sat unused for decades, luckily it's being moved somewhere so that something can be built. As far as I know everything with historic value was protected decades ago, trying to expand that just leads to trash like that building sticking around to haunt us for who knows how long

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin

Old buildings have nothing to do with the pride or spirit or whatever of Philadelphia,

I can see there is no sense in engaging you further. Good day!

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by AnEmperorPenguin

Old buildings have nothing to do with the pride or spirit or whatever of Philadelphia, these same grandiose (and frankly delusional) comments about the doom of modern architecture are always made, in 100 years people will bemoan the lost art of beautiful 5 over 1s or something equally as dumb.

One of the nice things about living in Philadelphia compared to other cities like NYC or Boston is that you can actually get modern housing at a reasonable price, in places where they preserve everything they can that's not the case!


And I already live next to an eyesore, an abandoned gas station thats historically registered or whatever so the land has sat unused for decades, luckily it's being moved somewhere so that something can be built. As far as I know everything with historic value was protected decades ago, trying to expand that just leads to trash like that building sticking around to haunt us for who knows how long

Pro tip: The historically designated little Gulf station at 20th and Arch St had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with holding back development of the much larger site it shares. True fact®. In fact at one point many years ago the Historical Commission had okayed its demolition, but the development plans at that time came to naught.

Post and discussion at Philadelphia Industrial & Commercial Heritage: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Phil...3819613573339/