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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 1:21 PM
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Here in North Carolina, the two largest cities are opposite. I could try to search for income or property value maps but I just drew them out with the affluent areas shaded:

Charlotte:



Raleigh:

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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ue
Denver's would most likely hug the Front Ranges, but they don't. Instead, the favoured quarters abutt prairie. Why is this?
It's still geography, ultimately. Denver was originally settled on the east bank of the South Platte River. As a result of being on the east bank, most of Denver's early development was also along the east side, since one would've had to cross the river to go west. Thus Denver's core city neighborhoods flow directly east and south of downtown along Colfax and Broadway.

Once that pattern was established, it built upon itself over the decades. After World War 2, Cherry Creek emerged as Denver's most important commercial uptown, strengthening the southeast's hold further. Then in the 1980s the Denver Tech Center became Denver's most important suburban edge city, pushing southeast even more. But if you go back to the beginning, it was the river.

Boulder's favored quarter OTOH faces south simply because that's the direction of Denver, and Denver exerts a strong pull.
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 2:05 PM
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I never thought of this, but you're right. It's definitely true in Paris, Berlin, Hamburg, Cologne, Munich, Budapest.

Frankfurt and Rome are north, though. I think Madrid too. There are probably some other exceptions.
Frankfurt and Rome aren't really big industrial cities, so perhaps that rule doesn't apply. Although north is also upriver in Rome, so perhaps that meant cleaner water at one point (Paris and Berlin are opposite, though).

Madrid is a bit strange. Yes, you have the wealthier residential areas to the north (beginning with Salamanca). But the palace is west, and then Casa de Campo beyond that prevented urban development from going that way. If you say that the center is Retiro park, rather than Plaza Mayor (there's so much sprawl to the east that Centro is not the geographic center), then it's more north-northwest that's the favored quarter.

I'm curious about Denver and Boulder. Does the prevailing wind come up from the south due to the Front Range? I'd expect the west sides to be favored because of the mountain views.

edit: just saw Cirrus' reply. That all makes sense (especially with respect to Boulder).
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 2:22 PM
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heres a more refined version of the st. louis favored quarter. ovals are boom areas for new construction class A office/lab construction. i show the directions of expansion of the central corridor/favored quarter. on the west end are horse farms and very hilly/forested terrain, so there is a bit of a bookend.

i left out st. charles county to the northwest, along the I-70 corridor. that area has been fueled much more by north city/north county capital/white flight for 50 years and doesn't represent real, sustainable growth and "natural" suburbanization. I-70 is a capital flight corridor, and real estate values are showing that suburb-to-suburb, now, as the suburbs are cannibalising each other for 40 miles west up that way. that entire quarter functions entirely differently, now, and has sort of half way "broken loose" from the central corridor. the exception may be those st. charles suburbs in the far NW corner of that image, closest to west st. louis county.
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Last edited by Centropolis; Aug 22, 2016 at 3:07 PM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 3:53 PM
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For Los Angeles it would be everything North of the 10 and West of downtown.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ChargerCarl View Post
For Los Angeles it would be everything North of the 10 and West of downtown.
A very simplified version of SD would follow this as well.

DT north (Mission Hills, Hillcrest, North Park) and west of the 5 along the coast.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 5:11 PM
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For South Florida it's mostly along the east side/near the water with a few sprinklings of the western suburbs.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 8:36 PM
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Philadelphia really doesn't have one.

Center City and adjacent neighborhoods form a core of wealth surrounded on all sides in any direction by less well off areas (chunks of North, South and West Philadelphia, river wards) or the Delaware River to areas in New Jersey that are stable working class at best but not well-off until further inland. These areas sit between Center City's affluence and the kind found in inner ring suburbs to the city's north/northwestern side and the better off city neighborhoods in the Northeast and Northwest.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
For South Florida it's mostly along the east side/near the water with a few sprinklings of the western suburbs.
In the Miami area (the bottom of this map), its basically right at the coast and then the SW side.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/busi...e78499407.html
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
Philadelphia really doesn't have one.

Center City and adjacent neighborhoods form a core of wealth surrounded on all sides in any direction by less well off areas (chunks of North, South and West Philadelphia, river wards) or the Delaware River to areas in New Jersey that are stable working class at best but not well-off until further inland. These areas sit between Center City's affluence and the kind found in inner ring suburbs to the city's north/northwestern side and the better off city neighborhoods in the Northeast and Northwest.
I'm not a Philly native so let me know if I'm completely off base here, but from the casual eye, I'd say that you could very roughly define a favoured quarter for the area. If you were to radiate out from Center City, an area encompassing the Main Line with just south of Route 30 as the southern border and a northern border vaguely defined by Ridge Ave, Lincoln Ave. and Germantown Ave at Chestnut Hill would encompass the obviously affluent parts of the metro.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy View Post
I'm not a Philly native so let me know if I'm completely off base here, but from the casual eye, I'd say that you could very roughly define a favoured quarter for the area. I
Yeah, Philly may not have a strict "favored quarter" from Center City to the suburbs (clearly there's a gap), but the Main Line is pretty obviously the wealth/economic center of the suburban parts of the region.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 9:15 PM
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Cincinnati would be the eastside (anywhere east of I-71).

Columbus would be the northside (starting with German Village at the southern tip).

Dayton would be the southside (starting at downtown at the northern tip).
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 10:04 PM
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Partially due to geography, Tampa's prestigious neighborhoods do not form a single corridor, but are instead concentrated in two regions.

Within the city limits/pre-1970s neighborhoods, the wealth is concentrated in a region called "South Tampa", which is generally west and south of downtown. The reason for this preference is distance from the port and industry which was/is located east and northeast from downtown (including Ybor City and its former cigar factories staffed by immigrants). Additionally, this region is located on a peninsula so there is plentiful waterfront property and easy access to the bay. Interestingly though, once you get too far south the neighborhoods get less desirable, if not downright sketchy (the cutoff being Gandy Blvd). This part of town borders an air force base and Tampa's smaller, secondary port district (Port Tampa--formerly an independent municipality).

The most desirable newer suburbs (post 1970s or so) are located to the north and northwest of the city, leaving a large donut of less popular or declining 1920s-1980s neighborhoods.


Last edited by Agent Orange; Aug 22, 2016 at 10:14 PM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ColDayMan View Post
Cincinnati would be the eastside (anywhere east of I-71).

Columbus would be the northside (starting with German Village at the southern tip).

Dayton would be the southside (starting at downtown at the northern tip).
weird that none of those follow the eastside/westside pattern of ancient industrial cities. got the river in cincy, obvi, that influences that. (you would think that it would be westside in cincy)
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2016, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
It's still geography, ultimately. Denver was originally settled on the east bank of the South Platte River. As a result of being on the east bank, most of Denver's early development was also along the east side, since one would've had to cross the river to go west. Thus Denver's core city neighborhoods flow directly east and south of downtown along Colfax and Broadway.

Once that pattern was established, it built upon itself over the decades. After World War 2, Cherry Creek emerged as Denver's most important commercial uptown, strengthening the southeast's hold further. Then in the 1980s the Denver Tech Center became Denver's most important suburban edge city, pushing southeast even more. But if you go back to the beginning, it was the river.

Boulder's favored quarter OTOH faces south simply because that's the direction of Denver, and Denver exerts a strong pull.
That sequence of events makes sense, though simply being the initial side of the river, or general direction of early urban development, doesn't inherently make that direction or side favourable in every case.

In Edmonton, the city was initially settled on the north banks of the North Saskatchewan River, and the general direction of development was northeasterly, yet the most favoured quarter is the exact opposite, southwest. Northeast Edmonton is the least favoured. More broadly, south is most favoured, followed by west; north is least favoured (Edmonton's east side is more nebulous and can be construed as part of south or north sides).

But the history of events is also different here. Heavy industrial development mostly occurred in the east or north, with more light industrial only in the south and west ends. The University of Alberta was built on the south side of the river, in the then City of Strathcona. Edmonton's first wealthy neighbourhood, Glenora, was built due west of the central core, across a ravine, atop the river valley. The favoured suburban shopping malls were built in the south (Southgate) and west (WEM).

Geographically, southwest had access to the untamed river valley and its associated geography, as well as various creeks and ravines. There is a bit of this also along the river in the NE, but it faces refineries and other heavy industry on the other side of the river, so, less desirable. In a fairly flat prairie city like Edmonton, the river valley is the most geographically interesting part of the city, and the non-industrialized parts are where home values and growth are highest.

Because of that thinking, I'd still expect places like Golden or Valley Barrington to have some favourability in terms of wealth, development, and general interest in Denver, though initial development, reinforced by postwar employment and shopping hubs, makes sense.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 12:57 AM
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This map pretty much shows within Pittsburgh there is no favored quarter.

Within the city, the favored quarter is clearly the East End. The East End has been the playground for the city's wealthy since around 1900 when Allegheny City (now the City's north side) was largely abandoned in favor of the East End's streetcar suburbia. City neighborhoods like Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, and Point Breeze never went into any decline to speak of, mostly maintained a "good feeder zone," and continue to house some of the wealthiest residents in the metropolitan area. Many other areas of the East End went through some period of decline, but are either gentrified or are gentrifying now, including (in rough order of gentrification) Friendship, Highland Park, Lawrenceville, and East Liberty. Honestly the overall wealth concentration in the East End is probably somewhat underrepresented in Census statistics because it also happens to be the main student area of the city, dropping household incomes considerably.

The wealth of the East End almost entirely stops at city limits these days however. The postwar suburb of Penn Hills and the formerly upper-middle class streetcar suburb of Wilkinsburg have both been heavily affected by white flight - a process which continues to this day in Penn Hills as gentrification pushes lower-income black city residents further into the suburbs. To the south, there were a number of streetcar suburban and actually suburban boroughs which were wealthy and desirable decades ago, but a court-ordered school district merger pushed these municipalities into the same school district as poor, majority-black mill towns, which in turn triggered flight from the school district and declining property values. The neighborhood of Regent Square (which is split between Pittsburgh and three suburban municipalities) remains desirable, as do some neighborhoods with grand old homes in portions of Wilkinsburg and Edgewood. But everywhere else is in decline, although there is residual wealth in the Forest Hills/Churchill area.

The income doughnut is very different in the other quadrants of the metro. Both basically have a small area closer to the core which is either wealthy or gentrifying, a wide swathe of poor or lower-middle class, then wealth picking up again in second-ring suburbs, fanning out to the exurbs across the county line. The concentration of wealth is much greater in the North Hills, where it fanned out from two historic old money suburbs (Fox Chapel and Sewickley) versus in the South, where it only fanned out from one (Mount Lebanon). The North Hills have also benefited because good highway access was built relatively recently (within the last 20-30 years) which resulted in much better driving commutes into Downtown than the South Hills has, and a resulting suburban building boom.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 5:27 AM
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Toronto (north), Chicago (north), St. Louis (west) and Washington DC (west/northwest) are good examples of cities with an affluent corridor running straight of the core and into the suburbs.

NYC is the best example of the concentric ring pattern.

Philadelphia also seems to have a concentric ring pattern, though also a more pronounced wealth direction than NYC (the Main Line in the western suburbs). You have the city's poorest areas, West and North Philly, wedged in between a very strong downtown and the wealthy Main Line.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 5:43 AM
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Seattle would be anywhere near water, and/or on a hill overlooking water. That's in all directions on both sides of the city limits.

The eastern suburbs are generally the favored third otherwise.
Isn't there a sort of affluent corridor running east from central Seattle, taking in Capitol Hill, Madison Park, Mercer Island, Medina etc.?

There's also a north/south split within the city and metro - with the southern city and southern suburbs being more industrial and working class.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 11:49 AM
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Toronto (north), Chicago (north), St. Louis (west) and Washington DC (west/northwest) are good examples of cities with an affluent corridor running straight of the core and into the suburbs.
Though I would say that St. Louis and Chicago are a bit different from Toronto and DC.

Toronto and DC are a solid, unbroken, corridor of regionally dominant wealth.

Chicago has a sizable gap, as the far North Side (Rogers Park and Uptown) certainly aren't wealthy or desirable. I would say that the most "prime" parts of Chicago's Northside end around Belmont Ave., and the less prime, but still desirable parts end around Irving Park Rd. North of there, to the city line, is kind of scattershot nice/not nice.

Also, South Evanston isn't really that desirable. Parts are semi-rough. It's more a Loop-to-Lakeview wealth corridor, then a pretty big gap, then North Evanston north to Lake Forest. In Toronto, there's no section along Yonge considered rough or even less-than-prime.

Also, in Chicago, there's a second, lesser wealth-corridor to the west, around Hinsdale-Western Springs, out to maybe Naperville. Places like Hinsdale are almost as expensive/desirable as North Shore suburbs. Toronto doesn't really have a worthy competitor to the Yonge corridor (I know there are some other pockets of regional wealth but nothing comparable).

And St. Louis, too, has a pretty big gap. I don't think the neighborhoods between Downtown and Central West End are all that wealthy/desirable. In that respect, St. Louis might be closer to a Detroit-style regional wealth arrangement, except the nice parts start within city limits.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2016, 1:28 PM
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Though I would say that St. Louis and Chicago are a bit different from Toronto and DC.

Toronto and DC are a solid, unbroken, corridor of regionally dominant wealth.

Chicago has a sizable gap, as the far North Side (Rogers Park and Uptown) certainly aren't wealthy or desirable. I would say that the most "prime" parts of Chicago's Northside end around Belmont Ave., and the less prime, but still desirable parts end around Irving Park Rd. North of there, to the city line, is kind of scattershot nice/not nice.

Also, South Evanston isn't really that desirable. Parts are semi-rough. It's more a Loop-to-Lakeview wealth corridor, then a pretty big gap, then North Evanston north to Lake Forest. In Toronto, there's no section along Yonge considered rough or even less-than-prime.

Also, in Chicago, there's a second, lesser wealth-corridor to the west, around Hinsdale-Western Springs, out to maybe Naperville. Places like Hinsdale are almost as expensive/desirable as North Shore suburbs. Toronto doesn't really have a worthy competitor to the Yonge corridor (I know there are some other pockets of regional wealth but nothing comparable).

And St. Louis, too, has a pretty big gap. I don't think the neighborhoods between Downtown and Central West End are all that wealthy/desirable. In that respect, St. Louis might be closer to a Detroit-style regional wealth arrangement, except the nice parts start within city limits.
Pittsburgh's wealth has historically started at a gap from Downtown. The wealthy portions of the East End are basically west of Oakland, which is the main university neighborhood. Although the northern portion of Oakland has a small historic district which is quite wealthy (Schenley Farms) the majority of Oakland is comprised of housing for undergrads and graduate students, and thus quite low income. On the other side of Oakland between it and Downtown there is the neighborhood of Uptown. Uptown is dominated in terms of population by institutional uses - dorms for a Catholic university and the county jail - historically having only a few hundred residents in the scattered blocks of rowhouses remaining. Further north there is the Hill District, which remains a black, mostly lower-income neighborhood, and above that the Strip District, which was historically an almost depopulated warehouse district.

Things are changing rapidly however. The Strip District, which as recently as 2000 had only around 200 residents, is having a construction boom between conversion of some older warehouse buildings and infill new construction. By 2020 it will probably have somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 people. it's also quickly become one of the wealthier neighborhoods in the city, as the rents in the new units aren't cheap. At the same time gentrification in other nearby areas like Lawrenceville and East Liberty are starting to bridge the gap between formerly lower-income areas in Pittsburgh. Once Bloomfield - a neighborhood which has always been popular among students and 20somethings - gentrifies a bit more, there will be a continual band of higher-income areas running from the CBD all the way out to the city line.
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