NEW YORK | Redevelopment of the High Line

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by photolitherland

The Highline is seriously amazing, every city should use it as a model to make use of their old rail lines and such that are no longer in use. Its seriously one of the most exciting urban projects going on in the the US right now.

It may be a great project, but it is a tiny strip of land. In the grand scheme of things, it is mickey mouse for the pedestrian in NYC. The highline would be nothing compared to what NY could accomplish if there was real political will for making the city a fantastic experience for the pedestrian.

I.e, NY could close long sections of avenues to cars, creating massive pedestrian blvds. that would make the HL look like kids stuff. Elevated highways could be turned into new highlines. Etc, Etc. Nearly every major city in China and Europe have some kind of pedestrian shopping street. Isn't it time the US saw the light?

[amor de cosmos]

more pics
http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog...7/high-line-2/
http://www.archdaily.com/141990/141990/

too bad cycling isn't allowed (or it isn't wide enough?), that probably could have cut down cyclists' commute time by skipping over the traffic down below

interviews with the architect
http://inhabitat.com/interview-archi...-of-high-line/

• Video Link

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by aquablue

It may be a great project, but it is a tiny strip of land. In the grand scheme of things, it is mickey mouse for the pedestrian in NYC. The highline would be nothing compared to what NY could accomplish if there was real political will for making the city a fantastic experience for the pedestrian.

I.e, NY could close long sections of avenues to cars, creating massive pedestrian blvds. that would make the HL look like kids stuff. Elevated highways could be turned into new highlines. Etc, Etc. Nearly every major city in China and Europe have some kind of pedestrian shopping street. Isn't it time the US saw the light?

nice rant we all would like more and likeitrightnow, but even so your wish is already well underway. many streets have been calmed with bike and pedestrian areas added. look at times square today for example. it's not the classic-era nyc anymore as far as cars ruling the city. more of that to come and at a relentless pace too, at least as long as janette sadik-khan hangs around.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by amor de cosmos

more pics
http://www.architizer.com/en_us/blog...7/high-line-2/

too bad cycling isn't allowed (or it isn't wide enough?), that probably could have cut down cyclists' commute time by skipping over the traffic down below

interviews with the architect
http://inhabitat.com/interview-archi...-of-high-line/

• Video Link

yes it's too narrow so no bikes allowed (and it would be no strollers either if i was king).

no need tfor bikers to worry about traffic tho as there are new dedicated bike lanes just below and on either side of the highline -- along ninth avenue and the (also new) hudson river park.

[Troubadour]

Originally Posted by aquablue

but multiple tiers will never happen in NYC.

You know what else will never happen in NYC? Closing Times Square to cars. Nope, never happen. Totally impossible. God Hath Spoken.

Originally Posted by aquablue

Actually, you are just dreaming if you think they will build the high line throughout manhattan.

Oh, I'm dreaming! What a horrible thing to do! Let's all just have lobotomies and sell pork-belly commodities, because obviously we have no say in shaping the future. You might as well say "No soup for you!"

Originally Posted by aquablue

This isn't architecture studio class.

Yeah, it's a city that turned an elevated railway into a park - a move received with nearly universal acclaim and adulation, for many reasons including the fact that it provides public space with a higher-up view of the city: The exact concept I'm saying should and will be explored further. But as we all know, cities never, ever build on success - especially not New York City, which always bails on ideas immediately after they prove valuable and popular. Which is why it only has one skyscraper, and has never once extended its original subway system. Right? Because obviously building subways is a lot easier than building a platform with some grass and trees on it, right?

Originally Posted by aquablue

The only chance you have is if they turned the elevated freeways into a new highline (unlikely).

Or...and I know this is an obscenely radical idea, but bear with me...the people and businesses that like the High Line park could ask the relevant authorities to extend it, and the authorities could do so. Shocking idea, I know.

Originally Posted by aquablue

Try somewhere else for your audacious dreams.

You mean, somewhere like a city that just turned a stretch of elevated railway into a public park?

Originally Posted by aquablue

I.e, some new city somwhere where such things could be possible, not in NYC which is under strict control of NIMBIES.

Right - build an elevated park in a city that doesn't have anything worth seeing yet, isn't cramped enough that people would appreciate it, isn't paved enough that the extra greenery is necessary, and would be equally without traffic or purpose, but avoid all cities where the opposite is true because that might be hard. Brilliant.

Originally Posted by aquablue

No one would tolerate multiple tiers blocking light and more overhead structures ruining the street level experience on NY's narrow canyons.

So let me see if I have this right: In your mind, New Yorkers are A-OK with living in a city full of skyscrapers, in urban canyons where access to sunlight is already somewhat restricted - in fact, many like that environment - but would get up in arms in outrage if someone proposed skinny little ribbons of greenery winding among those skyscrapers, allowing high pedestrian vantage points, fresh air, and better sunlight than would be available at street level anyway...all because, as also happens when you plant trees, less of the sunlight would reach the ground? This is your reasoning?

[mrnyc]

just in time for the first day of summer, the highline at 30th st is in full swing, stop by and check it out after your highline stroll -- we did after work yesterday -- it was great!

the lot=beer garden+music+food trucks+aol’s silly/trippy rainbow city
http://www.thehighline.org/the-lot

[tommaso]

There is no other way to look at the High Line but to say: this is a magical development!...a true benefit to the citizens of New York and a refreshing breath of fresh air for all those who make it there!

[NYC2ATX]

Originally Posted by aquablue

You can dream all you like, but multiple tiers will never happen in NYC. Actually, you are just dreaming if you think they will build the high line throughout manhattan. This isn't architecture studio class. The only chance you have is if they turned the elevated freeways into a new highline (unlikely).

Try somewhere else for your audacious dreams. I.e, some new city somwhere where such things could be possible, not in NYC which is under strict control of NIMBIES. No one would tolerate multiple tiers blocking light and more overhead structures ruining the street level experience on NY's narrow canyons. This is not something that will spread around, get it? This isn't Couruscant or Blade Runner here. This is NYC which is hardly the most progressive city when it comes to innovative urban design and is very reticent to change the classic look of the city (that is, a city of traffic). Wake me up when NY has it's equivalent of Nanjing Road or a European equivalent. If it can't even accomplish that, pedestrian bridges and vertical level platforms are just sci-fi fantasy.

You're a pretty miserable person, aren't you? You seem to be hoping for a certain type of result that may or may not happen come the future, but you fail to notice all the changes that HAVE been made here in NYC in the past few years. New bike lanes, pedestrian plazas in place of underused streets, closing Broadway through two major crossroads of Manhattan (it may have been mentioned but if you live in New York, you understand the gravity of such a move). Consider Hudson River Park or Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Come to think of it, I wonder if you're from New York, or have even ever been here? If you're from another part of the US, chances are you don't have NEARLY as much positive and progressive development going on where you are. You call us a city of cars, but everyone knows that New York is one of the cities LEAST reliant on private, fuel-powered vehicles in the nation, if not the world.

You compare us to China and Europe, but China and Europe have their own urban problems, and culturally, they are vastly different than the United States. I wouldn't ever want New York to look like Shanghai, because it should look like nothing other than New York. We can borrow urban design ideas and adapt them to our cityscape, but there's no need to throw our heritage and history out the window, considering it isn't just about traffic. Did you forget about the immigrant melting pot? the dynamic architecture? the contributions and influence on art/deisgn, fashion, finance and education? the iconic image depicted in history and entertainment alike?

Perhaps you should be a little less negative and speak with less disdain. ...and visit the High Line in person before you form an opinion of it and of New York.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000

Didn't know where else to put this, but demolition has officially begun for the new Whitney Museum at the south end of the High Line. Unfortunately I didnt get a photo, but it's certainly something to keep an eye on.

aah but fortunately i did get shots!





^ strange to see that gone, but the above site for the new whitney museum is now cleared and ready. not sure if actual construction has started yet, i'll check when i get a chance.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by StatenIslander237

You're a pretty miserable person, aren't you? You seem to be hoping for a certain type of result that may or may not happen come the future, but you fail to notice all the changes that HAVE been made here in NYC in the past few years. New bike lanes, pedestrian plazas in place of underused streets, closing Broadway through two major crossroads of Manhattan (it may have been mentioned but if you live in New York, you understand the gravity of such a move). Consider Hudson River Park or Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Come to think of it, I wonder if you're from New York, or have even ever been here? If you're from another part of the US, chances are you don't have NEARLY as much positive and progressive development going on where you are. You call us a city of cars, but everyone knows that New York is one of the cities LEAST reliant on private, fuel-powered vehicles in the nation, if not the world.

You compare us to China and Europe, but China and Europe have their own urban problems, and culturally, they are vastly different than the United States. I wouldn't ever want New York to look like Shanghai, because it should look like nothing other than New York. We can borrow urban design ideas and adapt them to our cityscape, but there's no need to throw our heritage and history out the window, considering it isn't just about traffic. Did you forget about the immigrant melting pot? the dynamic architecture? the contributions and influence on art/deisgn, fashion, finance and education? the iconic image depicted in history and entertainment alike?

Perhaps you should be a little less negative and speak with less disdain. ...and visit the High Line in person before you form an opinion of it and of New York.

I'm sorry my rude fellow but I'm a very happy person indeed. Looks like you're the one with the issues.

It is quite apparent that NYC is very behind the rest of the world when it comes to creating and implementing innovative urban design compared to its peer cities. I don't compare the rest of the USA with NYC, it is another league. The rest of the USA doesn't know the meaning of innovation at all.

The high line is nice, but it is only the tip of the iceberg. I'm not too impressed with the rest of those developments you list. An improvement but nothing out of the ordinary. The fact that in a city this size that there isn't one decent street or shopping area given to people and free from cars is a telling sign. The whole city is just a grid of traffic and people scream and yell like no tomorrow if any planner has a progressive idea to create pleasant pedestrian streets or malls free from cars. Not one street out of thousands of potential areas? Come on, man. Wake up. It is a city of cars, and you know it.

I don't care if NYers deny it. Pedestrian areas are more pleasant to shop in and be entertained. I've been all over the world and It is quite easy to see.

Seoul - pedestrian areas in main shopping/nightlife areas.
London - narrow streets, pedestrian lanes and plazas free from cars.
Paris - various pedestrian streets.
Tokyo - lanes, and street closures on weekends.
Rome, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich = large pedestrian centers
Dublin - main shopping streets pedestrianized
Shanghai - main shopping areas pedestrianized and riverfront highway buried to create
promenade free from heavy traffic.
HK - street closures for heavy retail areas.
Buenos Aires - pedestrian shopping street.

NYC - basically no real pedestrian areas as of now.

Shanghai has all its awful problems, but it had the sense to bury its riverfront highway and pedestrianize its much of its main shopping blvd.

Also, the idea of creating multiple levels of high-line is ludicrous and I have no idea who could possibly think that such a thing could ever happen in manhattan. People don't want towering structures over their already light restricted canyons.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by Troubadour

You know what else will never happen in NYC? Closing Times Square to cars. Nope, never happen. Totally impossible. God Hath Spoken.



Oh, I'm dreaming! What a horrible thing to do! Let's all just have lobotomies and sell pork-belly commodities, because obviously we have no say in shaping the future. You might as well say "No soup for you!"



Yeah, it's a city that turned an elevated railway into a park - a move received with nearly universal acclaim and adulation, for many reasons including the fact that it provides public space with a higher-up view of the city: The exact concept I'm saying should and will be explored further. But as we all know, cities never, ever build on success - especially not New York City, which always bails on ideas immediately after they prove valuable and popular. Which is why it only has one skyscraper, and has never once extended its original subway system. Right? Because obviously building subways is a lot easier than building a platform with some grass and trees on it, right?



Or...and I know this is an obscenely radical idea, but bear with me...the people and businesses that like the High Line park could ask the relevant authorities to extend it, and the authorities could do so. Shocking idea, I know.



You mean, somewhere like a city that just turned a stretch of elevated railway into a public park?



Right - build an elevated park in a city that doesn't have anything worth seeing yet, isn't cramped enough that people would appreciate it, isn't paved enough that the extra greenery is necessary, and would be equally without traffic or purpose, but avoid all cities where the opposite is true because that might be hard. Brilliant.



So let me see if I have this right: In your mind, New Yorkers are A-OK with living in a city full of skyscrapers, in urban canyons where access to sunlight is already somewhat restricted - in fact, many like that environment - but would get up in arms in outrage if someone proposed skinny little ribbons of greenery winding among those skyscrapers, allowing high pedestrian vantage points, fresh air, and better sunlight than would be available at street level anyway...all because, as also happens when you plant trees, less of the sunlight would reach the ground? This is your reasoning?

No need to be so sarcastic. Everyone has an opinion.

First of all, they didn't close TS to cars, that is fallacy. There are cars right beside all the plazas. It is not a closure to traffic but more like a reduction that doesn't go far enough IMO. It is hardly Shanghai's Nanjing Road. A good idea, but don't pretend the place isn't still a congested nightmare.


You know there is no way in hell NYC nimbies would allow overhanging structures throughout the city. Just last week their were people bursting out crying and shaking with anger over plans to close a stretch of street to cars on the UES. Nimbies got Tour Verre cut down for these very reasons. Don't pretend that Nimbies don't hold immense power. I highly doubt your ideas, although interesting, would every be implemented throughout the city. I can only see this happening through blighted or industrial areas. There is basically no room for such things on the narrow congested streets of NYC and people would cry bloody muder that such structures would represent eye-sores and destroy the street-scape, block light, etc.. Remember, many people in NYC don't like the towering canyons, they would probably prefer if NY looked like Paris. They may just live in NYC because of their job or their desire to be into the center of everything. They don't necessarily all like the urban structure of the city and many are willing to prevent a worsening of the things they already detest such as what your idea entails. Otherwise, why would you see such a vehement opposition to towers like Verre? People care about these things and rich people have influence in Manhattan.

You're idea would most likley be too difficult to implement in busy areas like midtown or downtown NYC. It may also reduce pedestrian life on the street and retail sales may go down if you allow people to use these new vertical park lanes to walk around the city. I'm sure there would be much opposition from business owners. People on these parks may have more light/air, but that is to the detriment of people below. That is the problem. No matter how narrow, it is still not going to happen. As I sad before, turning elevated highways into another highline might work. An even better idea however is to create pedestrian shopping aras out of places with narrow streets like Soho or Villages. However, the residents just won't have it and that to me shows lack of civic vision from all parties involved. I want to see more innovative urban design for NYC, to see it become a more pleasant city to walk around. I see no reason why a dense walking city like Manhattan needs to be so congested with cars. Where's the innovation?

Manhattan's vertical space is spoken for by private development. No private property owner would be willing to go to the expense to retrofit its vertical floors or sacrifice views for the construction of multiple levels of walkway outside its windows.

[mrnyc]

aqua i'm not really sure what your beef is here. sounds something like wanting nyc to resemble a not yet existent futureworld asian city or something. frankly, you seem to have traveled some lately and are cherry-picking combined multiple cities into some kind of perfect city dream of your own. nothing wrong with that, we all do it, but it seems to have skewed your reality of what is really available and happening in nyc.

first of all, yes there are elevated and underground walkways across nyc. the overhead ones just fell out of fashion and the underground passages became dangerous and were closed. not a nimby issue at all, they could revive someday.

next, nyc has made incredible strides removing car traffic and adding bike lanes & ped plazas. broadway and times square alone took out massive amounts of car traffic. certainly improves your times sq, madison sq, union sq, etc. experience, including shopping. appears thats not good enough for you, but it is fact. hang on for more to come.

speaking of, another beef of yours seems to be shopping experience. by the variety and the way people vote with their wallets i would say nyc shopping areas are doing quite well just as they are -- and no wonder the city is home to a big chunk of the fashion industry. the experiences are as pleasant/unpleasant as anywhere. are you trying to say, for example, that omote sando is better because it has an unusually wide (for tokyo) sidewalk or harajuku is better because traffic closes off? not sure. that aside, there are indeed quiet shopping streets with no or little traffic. fulton mall in brklyn is a prime example and an old one at that. orchard st predates the modern retail of most of your listed cities. any side-street below 14th st is narrow and london-like, bleeker, village, ev, meatpacking, nolita, les, bpc, etc., etc. even the ritzy boutique shopping up along madison has very little traffic vs hectic 5th avenue and it is very pleasant...if you can afford it.

as to pedestrian only streets, surprisingly there are many. fulton & orchard as mentioned. street fairs are daily this time of year. traffic is closed in central park. weekend flea markets, do they count? london-esque stone st downtown has no cars and is newish & very popular. bpc also has almost no cars. not to mention the real gap in your nyc understanding -- randalls, governors and roosevelt islands. thats right nyc has entire islands that are ped only, and one of them is among the densest of neighborhoods in america.

i could go on, but the point is nyc is an even bigger place than most people think and in fact it has examples of almost evrything under the sun. perhaps just not weighted to your liking at the moment, or built to your vision, but the tourists sure seem to like it and the census shows an increase in residents.

now that i went off track too i think we should get back on topic -- which is redevelopment of the highline!!!

[rapid_business]

.... so.... can we get back to talking about High Line development now and stop the pissing contest?

[yankeesfan1000]

Originally Posted by onishenko

.... so.... can we get back to talking about High Line development now and stop the pissing contest?

This thread got pretty derailed. Anyways, the new Whitney already had it's groundbreaking ceremony and while mrnyc's pics do help give people not familiar with the area a sort of setting, those are pretty old photos and that building that is pictured is entirely gone, and I'd have to think the Whitney is now under construction. Here's a little video about it for those that are interested. http://whitney.org/About/NewBuilding/Video

Back to the High Line, here are some photos of the final third section of the high line where construction obviously has yet to begin.

Photo credit to michelle young at untapped new york.

To put this image in context, the first stage of the Hudson Yards will essentially be right in front of that ugly little brown/black building off to the left a bit. Then the rest of the Hudson Yards will be built directly over the rail yards which you can see on the left. Then Manhattan West will be built about 2 blocks directly in front of where you're looking, basically on the other side of the same ugly little brown/black building. Then 15 Penn will go basically four blocks from where the photo is taken.


















What the main part, or western portion, of the Hudson Yards will be built over.


11th Avenue which splits the Hudson Yards into Eastern and Western portions, and the Javits center undergoing a facelift. Also, you can see just off to the right of 11th Ave you can see a crane that's working on the 7 line extension, and if I'm not mistaken that's where the Girasole will go after construction there is finished. Going to be a lot of activity here.














Good shot to give a scale of the size of the Hudson Yards lot.


Hope that helps.

[Obey]

Originally Posted by aquablue

It may be a great project, but it is a tiny strip of land. In the grand scheme of things, it is mickey mouse for the pedestrian in NYC. The highline would be nothing compared to what NY could accomplish if there was real political will for making the city a fantastic experience for the pedestrian.

I.e, NY could close long sections of avenues to cars, creating massive pedestrian blvds. that would make the HL look like kids stuff. Elevated highways could be turned into new highlines. Etc, Etc. Nearly every major city in China and Europe have some kind of pedestrian shopping street. Isn't it time the US saw the light?

...

Who are you?

[BStyles]

Originally Posted by aquablue

It may be a great project, but it is a tiny strip of land. In the grand scheme of things, it is mickey mouse for the pedestrian in NYC. The highline would be nothing compared to what NY could accomplish if there was real political will for making the city a fantastic experience for the pedestrian.

I.e, NY could close long sections of avenues to cars, creating massive pedestrian blvds. that would make the HL look like kids stuff. Elevated highways could be turned into new highlines. Etc, Etc. Nearly every major city in China and Europe have some kind of pedestrian shopping street. Isn't it time the US saw the light?

Yeah, that's funny, and ironic. The only light we'd be seeing is through the smog clouds from all the congestion we'd get if we did this.

As the country's most heavily populated city, almost ranking with Los Angeles in congestion woes(not to beat L.A. down or anything, but keep in mind that there's a smog cloud looming over L.A. on any given day), you really want to turn one way streets and avenues into pedestrian malls? Do you even realize what that will do to the Manhattan street grid? Not to mention the stress it will cause on the only transit system in the world that runs 24/7.

Broadway got away with it, but come on. It's Broadway. That's as much pedestrian space as you're gonna get. Other than that, take a subway train if you want to see more pedestrian space.

Anyway, commenting on the picture above,the High Line looks amazing from the last segment. I could almost see some trains running on those rails.

[Obey]

In NYC, A Grand Opening for High Line Phase II
http://archrecord.construction.com/n...-High-Line.asp
June 7, 2011
By Asad Syrkett
Architectural Record

The highly anticipated second section of the High Line, designed by James Corner Field Operations with Diller Scofidio + Renfro, opened today for a press preview and ceremonial ribbon cutting. In attendance were New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, members of New York City Council, the co-founders of Friends of the High Line, and supporters and benefactors, including Diane von Furstenburg and Barry Diller. The second phase, which stretches from 22nd Street to 30th Street, opens to the public on Wednesday...

http://archrecord.construction.com/n...-High-Line.asp
Photo © Iwan Baan


Photo © Asad Syrkett

[Troubadour]

Originally Posted by Obey

This seems like a strange design for a water fountain, with no bowl or drain. Wouldn't it just splash all over the place?

[JSsocal]

^^^That notch in the upper right is the drain, it goes down the side of the fountain to a drain on the ground.

[Troubadour]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

^^^That notch in the upper right is the drain, it goes down the side of the fountain to a drain on the ground.

Ahh, the photo is from an odd perspective that hides the slope of the surface. It looks flat.