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  #9201  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Of course they weren't "needed": the jurisdictions that didn't go anywhere near as far... ALSO peaked with similar-ish timing.

Omicron's going to rip through the population quickly, curfews or not. May as well not destroy the economy gratuitously, given that it won't change much.
Don’t you know you can’t catch Covid before [9pm]? It’s like a gremlin that comes out at night.

Remember, old people go to bed early and old people dictate policy (because they vote and because we keep fucking electing them). So curfews are good public health theater - only the young and people in hospitality suffer.
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  #9202  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Over 200 million people in the U.S. are fully vaccinated. And probably billions globally. If there was something wrong with the vaccines, we'd almost certainly know it by now.
We know there is plenty wrong with them, which is why boosters are needed every four weeks to maintain immunity and why certain countries have already banned it depending on age groups. Eighteen months is not a long time and yet we already see the highest VAERS reports ever. I have never seen this vaccinate over everything else in my life. If you want it, get it, but we arent honest about it or the effect it has had on a lot of people. To say 200M have taken it and imply nothing has happened is not being honest. This is at least one change I'm seeing from folks around me because more know people who have gotten sicker than they ever have in their life after getting 2+ covid vaxxes.
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  #9203  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 8:17 PM
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We know there is plenty wrong with them, which is why boosters are needed every four weeks to maintain immunity and why certain countries have already banned it depending on age groups. Eighteen months is not a long time and yet we already see the highest VAERS reports ever. I have never seen this vaccinate over everything else in my life. If you want it, get it, but we arent honest about it or the effect it has had on a lot of people. To say 200M have taken it and imply nothing has happened is not being honest. This is at least one change I'm seeing from folks around me because more know people who have gotten sicker than they ever have in their life after getting 2+ covid vaxxes.
Eighteen months is plenty of time. We need boosters because the virus is unstable and mutates. They release a flu vaccine every year and have done so for like a century. This is not new.
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  #9204  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 8:30 PM
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They’ve given you a very effective vaccine and you can wear a mask or not go out if you want. What the fuck do you want, to be told to stay home again? Jesus Christ.
Yes, that’s exactly what these types want. They don’t have realistic views of the world and can’t stand the thought that COVID is endemic, will not be eradicated, and that they were sold lies. So they’d rather lock down again and “get rid” of covid, which any logical person now knows isn’t possible. Not even with vaccination.

At the end of the day, it’s denial of reality. We’re seeing this across many different issues currently in the US. In the future, historians will probably be very intrigued by the mass cognitive dissonance that were seeing currently.
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  #9205  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2022, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
So I guess he has now "tested" covid enough to know whether it is real and safe.

This is what I'll never understand. With something like 200 million Americans having now had at least one shot of vaccine (very rough math--please, no criticism on that), we'd be dropping like flies in a cloud of Black Flag if it was anything like as unsafe as covid. So just looking at the issue in relative terms, remaining unvaccinated makes even less sense than getting in a closed car with someone who is sick while you are yourself unvaccinated.
From what I can tell, he and everyone in his house believed COVID-19 was real. They masked (3-layer surgical masks and not the good N95/KN95?), took advantage of contact-free delivery, and avoided crowds. I'm not sure of the vaccination status of others in his household, but he didn't trust the vaccines. Usually, when someone is sick, the reaction isn't anger, but the reaction to his hospitalization is anger from the family. He is the first person (I know of) in the family to be hospitalized for COVID-19.

From what I've heard, he is on steroids and they are causing him to have blood sugar issues, so they are controlling his insulin levels. He also can't breathe when he has to eat. My family is mostly northerners, from places that have higher vaccination rates (Maternal: Chicagoland & Wisconsin and Paternal: NYC area). The exceptions are a few family members in the Orlando and Tampa metros and of course my parents, my sister, and myself in NC/TN/GA respectively. I'm fully vaccinated and had COVID-19 breakthroughs, which I would describe as three-day allergy attacks that allergy medicine doesn't work on. I did have ear ringing for about a month after the last breakthrough. Both my wife and I are fully vaccinated and boosted. Our son Noah is too young, though.

So many people who are sick often claim it's allergies. You wouldn't believe how many times I hear that. Sometimes they even say the allergy took-away their sense of smell or taste. I don't trust anyone saying their COVID-19 sickness is allergies. I don't know if he was told, by the person asking for a ride, it was allergies or a cold, but that is a common thing I hear around here (metro Atlanta).
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  #9206  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Eighteen months is plenty of time. We need boosters because the virus is unstable and mutates. They release a flu vaccine every year and have done so for like a century. This is not new.
Other than certain health professions, annual flu vaccines are optional. So far, Covid vaccines and now boosters are being required regardless of industry. What's to stop the narrative to mandate endless boosters indefinitely?

At some point, it has to be a personal decision and I think there will be inevitable pushback. We can only portray the unvaccinated as the villains just so long as especially as we are learning the vaccinated are also vectors. I'm triple vaccinated but can still spread it around at work which is why offices are closed for at least six more months.
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  #9207  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 1:35 AM
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We sure could use a lot more effective anti-covid paxlovid pills, N95 masks, and test kits right now! Where are they? We have plenty of vaccine. Too much perhaps. They are throwing some out as they expire. I've had my vaccination, but it would be nice to have an N95 mask when I go out and paxlovid in case I get a breakthrough infection, which are occuring in some vaccinated people.

Last edited by CaliNative; Jan 17, 2022 at 8:24 AM.
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  #9208  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 1:47 AM
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Stop being paranoid. You stand little to no chance of getting sick enough to need to go to hospital if you are vaccinated.
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  #9209  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 1:55 AM
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^ And of course he’s from California

Urban Cali, New York, Chicago, it’s where all the buffoons live.

Everywhere else people have a bit of commons sense and balance. I fucking would love to move out of this place. I was in the Carolinas a few weeks ago and people there are living their lives. You only get one life and too many idiots are still wasting it actually trying to find out how to avoid Covid. Bizarre and sad
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  #9210  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 3:58 PM
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Article from the BBC on a recent Oxfam report. As more data is processed, it's becoming clearer that lockdowns are actually beneficial to the wealthiest - at the expense of most everyone else: (so it should also come as little surprise that the same billionaire-owned media outlets are the ones continuing to push the pro-lockdown narrative)


Quote:
Wealth of world's 10 richest men doubled in pandemic, Oxfam says

The pandemic has made the world's wealthiest far richer but has led to more people living in poverty, according to the charity Oxfam.

Lower incomes for the world's poorest contributed to the death of 21,000 people each day, its report claims.

But the world's 10 richest men have more than doubled their collective fortunes since March 2020, Oxfam said.

...

Danny Sriskandarajah, Oxfam GB's chief executive, said the charity timed the report each year to coincide with Davos to attract the attention of economic, business and political elites.

"This year, what's happening is off the scale," he said. "There's been a new billionaire created almost every day during this pandemic, meanwhile 99% of the world's population are worse off because of lockdowns, lower international trade, less international tourism, and as a result of that, 160 million more people have been pushed into poverty."
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60015294
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  #9211  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 4:40 PM
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I've been saying that for over a year. Its pretty obvious that all the lock down narratives were made only to increase the wealth of billionaires. I think 50 new billionaires were created during the "pandemic".
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  #9212  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Article from the BBC on a recent Oxfam report. As more data is processed, it's becoming clearer that lockdowns are actually beneficial to the wealthiest - at the expense of most everyone else: (so it should also come as little surprise that the same billionaire-owned media outlets are the ones continuing to push the pro-lockdown narrative)




https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60015294
Before clicking on that article, I set for it a very low expectations bar: that it would at least give an explanation why.

It didn’t.

It also made it clear Elon Musk is skewing their data big time by having bet big on one of the best antidotes to global warming (i.e. transportation that doesn’t burn dead dinos) at the right moment. Not really pandemic-related; for pretty much the entire history of humanity, anyone who comes up with a solution to a previously great problem becomes extremely wealthy, it’s normal.

I was hoping the article would venture a plausible general explanation such as:

-Lockdowns force governments to shower citizens and businesses with gazillions of freshly-printed money they didn’t have;

-Which causes crazy inflation;

-Which means the people who already owned assets see those assets gain in value vs nominal currency; they’re now richer;

-Conversely, if you don’t have assets (“were poor”), then the only effect for you is that everything now costs significantly more than before; you’re clearly worse off.

Last edited by lio45; Jan 17, 2022 at 5:16 PM.
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  #9213  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:18 PM
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-Conversely, if you don’t have assets (“were poor”), then the only effect for you is that everything now costs significantly more than before; you’re clearly worse off.
Yeah, I think this is approximately what's happening. And in general if life gets a bit worst the richest are most able to cope on average. A government edict may cause famine or death for a poor day labourer in India ("walk hundreds of km home to your hut and stay there or be punished") but not even be noticeable to a rich person ("you should stay where you are but nobody will check").

I don't believe there is any specific billionaire agenda with lockdowns. I think people just support the policies based on what their motivations and costs are. And some have more influence than others. If you're a rich old Boomer stereotype on a large property the pandemic measures have little practical cost to you. Even the travel restrictions aren't such a big deal now (if you get covid, just wait in your villa for another week before flying back).

Meanwhile for the poor there was often no benefit even to the lockdowns. There was no lockdown of chicken plant workers. They just went to work and got covid. The poor old people are in packed homes or old folks' homes and they got covid too.

One cynical theory I heard was that because well-off people are now testing positive for omicron the shame will drop and "society will decide" to move on.
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  #9214  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Other than certain health professions, annual flu vaccines are optional. So far, Covid vaccines and now boosters are being required regardless of industry. What's to stop the narrative to mandate endless boosters indefinitely?
Does any industry require a booster now? I don't think I've heard that come up anywhere. Anyway that's a different discussion from whether the vaccines are dangerous.
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  #9215  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:29 PM
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Yeah, I think this is approximately what's happening. And in general if life gets a bit worst the richest are most able to cope on average. A government edict may cause famine or death for a poor day labourer in India ("walk hundreds of km home to your hut and stay there or be punished") but not even be noticeable to a rich person ("you should stay where you are but nobody will check").

I don't believe there is any specific billionaire agenda with lockdowns. I think people just support the policies based on what their motivations and costs are. And some have more influence than others. If you're a rich old Boomer stereotype on a large property the pandemic measures have little practical cost to you. Even the travel restrictions aren't such a big deal now (if you get covid, just wait in your villa for another week before flying back).

Meanwhile for the poor there was often no benefit even to the lockdowns. There was no lockdown of chicken plant workers. They just went to work and got covid. The poor old people are in packed homes or old folks' homes and they got covid too.

One cynical theory I heard was that because well-off people are now testing positive for omicron the shame will drop and "society will decide" to move on.
Also, wealth on paper doesn’t mean buying power follows.

If the Canadian government decides to print several new trillion dollars right now and injects that into the economy, a $3 loaf of bread will now be $6, an apt that rented for $800 a month will now rent for $1,600, and my Canadian real estate previously worth $x Canadian dollars will now be worth $2x Canadian dollars, literally overnight.

“I doubled my wealth in Canadian dollars overnight”, sure, but maybe when measured in US dollars or Euros, I’m not any wealthier than before.

Extreme example: imagine that you owned a rental property in Zimbabwe at the start of their infamous runaway inflation. Eventually, your building brings in several trillion quintillion dollars in monthly rent; multiply that by the same standard cap rate as before and you’re now (on paper, in Zimbabwe dollars) 10^23 times richer than before, but in practice, you’re not. You could even be functionally poorer.

Edit: since I have some leverage, that scenario of printing fresh gazillions of dollars would actually make me wealthier (my debt, fixed in Canadian dollars, would magically diminish vs the value of my assets), but for the sake of the example, imagine an unleveraged portfolio.
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  #9216  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:38 PM
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And yes, as both 10023 and someone123 suggested, my Boomer parents literally did not notice the curfew. They weren’t out and about at night even back when that was legal. I’m not exaggerating one bit: if they had been somehow magically shielded from all news, and had been completely unaware of the curfew, they would STILL not have violated it one single time.
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  #9217  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 6:08 PM
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And yes, as both 10023 and someone123 suggested, my Boomer parents literally did not notice the curfew. They weren’t out and about at night even back when that was legal. I’m not exaggerating one bit: if they had been somehow magically shielded from all news, and had been completely unaware of the curfew, they would STILL not have violated it one single time.
My experience is that younger people have also been more afraid of covid and more personally locked down (here in BC we didn't have many draconian restrictions for long, and punishment was minimal, so a lot of it was voluntary). The older people in houses did more traveling and parties and had more risk of getting covid.

I don't know many people who knowingly had covid so far (though a bunch had the sniffles and couldn't get tested, while they are 100% vaccinated, so I bet some probably have unknowingly) but of the ones who did the most common reason why is their parents invited them to some family gathering with Uncle so-and-so who just got back from Cabo etc.

It's the exact opposite of the "virtuous granny sits and home and the wicked teenager secretly parties then brings covid home and kills her" narrative. The grannies I know are fed up and undersocialized and they have about a 10% chance of dying each year so the 0.5% extra from covid when they are triple-vaxxed does not really change anything. Most of the joy they get in life is from visiting relatives so if you take that away there's not much left. Many of them have health orders in place that specify they won't be put into an ICU for weeks on a ventilator too.

I realize people have different experiences and live in different bubbles but overall I have a feeling our approach was not very effective and didn't direct energy to where it produced the most value. Instead we had a lot of lazy fear-driven one-size-fits-all rules and now a bunch of them remain in place due to inertia and risk aversion.
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  #9218  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 6:20 PM
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I also see plenty of young people very worry about Covid and plenty of middle-aged completely ignoring it. In fact Covid and vaccine denialism is the strongest on those groups.

I don't think it's a generational issue at all.
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  #9219  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 6:20 PM
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^ they are more brainwashed by (social) media perhaps, or more inclined to engage in virtue signalling

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My experience is that younger people have also been more afraid of covid and more personally locked down (here in BC we didn't have many draconian restrictions for long, and punishment was minimal, so a lot of it was voluntary). The older people in houses did more traveling and parties and had more risk of getting covid.

I don't know many people who knowingly had covid so far (though a bunch had the sniffles and couldn't get tested, while they are 100% vaccinated, so I bet some probably have unknowingly) but of the ones who did the most common reason why is their parents invited them to some family gathering with Uncle so-and-so who just got back from Cabo etc.

It's the exact opposite of the "virtuous granny sits and home and the wicked teenager secretly parties then brings covid home and kills her" narrative. The grannies I know are fed up and undersocialized and they have about a 10% chance of dying each year so the 0.5% extra from covid when they are triple-vaxxed does not really change anything. Most of the joy they get in life is from visiting relatives so if you take that away there's not much left. Many of them have health orders in place that specify they won't be put into an ICU for weeks on a ventilator too.

I realize people have different experiences and live in different bubbles but overall I have a feeling our approach was not very effective and didn't direct energy to where it produced the most value. Instead we had a lot of lazy fear-driven one-size-fits-all rules and now a bunch of them remain in place due to inertia and risk aversion.
That was the case over here as well. Not because younger people were more afraid of Covid*, but because they live in small city apartments and not big suburban/country houses. Most young people don’t have friends over often anyway, because their apartment isn’t that good for entertaining, and instead meet friends at restaurants or bars (which were closed). And the police would turn up if you tried to have friends over in the city, whereas at a suburban house at the end of a driveway they would never know.

Nonetheless, almost everyone I know or interact with has had Covid.

*of course “essential workers” also tend to be young, and had to worry about losing income if they got Covid and couldn’t work, but it certainly wasn’t because they gave a shit about the virus
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  #9220  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 6:41 PM
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We have a mask mandate too which requires that we put on our masks to go check the mail or go to the garbage room or to the car. Generally with 0 other people around. Outdoor masking is probably 50/50. The other day I was outside for a jog and a woman who was maybe 8 feet away from me walked into a bush and faced away as I went by (there used to be a guy who would warily eye people on a giant wooded path about ~50 feet away and hold a cloth mask up to his face as others walked by but I haven't seen him lately; RIP mask guy, you should have held up a stack of 10 N95s). I have older relatives living in houses and for them there are no masks required to do a lot of their day to day stuff. It is much less annoying to visit them than to be home.

My friends are still having covid "scares" at work (they had to work in person through the pandemic including when vaccinated, so did my partner.. actually they were lower down the vaccination list than older work from home/retired people). I try to explain to them that there is a 99.999999...9% chance of people coming into their busy public workplace with omicron but I'm not sure they really understand the implications.

The covid fatality rate in my province last week was 0.7 per million per day and cases already peaked here (omicron was here in early December for sure and probably November). The week before was 0.3 per million per day.
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