HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #8321  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2021, 9:43 PM
TWAK's Avatar
TWAK TWAK is online now
The Supreme Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lake County, CA
Posts: 11,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
COVID isn't deadlier than AIDS. I think you mean HIV, though. But COVID probably isn't deadlier than HIV, either. HIV without medication is almost 100% fatal. AIDS is pretty much 100% fatal.
Yes, AIDS is more like Long-COVID. I accept, but now I have two different things to compare. You might have made it worse for the thread since I'm going to incorporate this information.
Quote:
However, COVID is an airborne, easily transmissible virus, and HIV is not. It's a nonsensical comparison.
The underlined part shows that COVID can impact more people, and thus, could be worse.
It's a great comparison since people would be scared if they thought they were the same, or if COVID was "deadlier". Plus, I warned y'all, so it's not my fault if people don't like the comparison. The best thing to do is refute me with some sources, or apologize to California.
__________________
nobody cares about your city
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8322  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 5:05 AM
pico44's Avatar
pico44 pico44 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Sorry, these comments are dumb. Whether or not remote learning is "trash" has nothing to do with anything.

The facts are that A. Schools weren't closed; and B. There was no alternative to remote learning, at the beginning. They were never going to keep in-school learning while the teachers were dropping dead right and left, which is what was happening in March-April 2020.

NYC public schools alone lost like 70 employees to Covid in the first few weeks. You cannot keep in-person learning going when you're losing a few employees per day.

Damn, lighten up Francis. A couple things: one, our school district shut down completely for somewhere between two and four weeks starting in February of ‘20. I forget exactly because I was working full time as a front-line physician at the time and I can’t remember. And I refuse to ask my wife because she will ask why-Im-asking, and then I’ll have to tell her I’m having an argument on the internet which will piss her off and make me embarrassed. But, to be absolutely clear and to win this idiotic discussion, our schools were completely and totally closed so you are 100% wrong. I never said it was the wrong decision to close the schools (I actually pushed for it because I was starting to see people crashing from the disease), or that the teachers didn’t need protection; I just said they were closed and this was terrible for children, which makes me objectively correct and you objectively incorrect.

Of course, hahaha, this wasn’t what I meant when I said schools were closed—I meant the year and a half of remote/hybrid learning, which most normal humans would be able to decipher without holding the conversation hostage for a day. In our district, hybrid/remote was a joke for many reasons, and went on for far too long; but I know better than to get tangled up in one of your semantic tentacles.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8323  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 1:25 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 20,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think of our local school as a place that will help educate my children AND as a place for them to go to for 7 hours every weekday.

as TWAK said earlier, public schools serve BOTH roles for our society. it's not just only one or the other; there's no need for myopia like that.

and anyone who's ever been a single parent, or part of a 2 working parent household, FULLY understands this dual-role nature of public schools.

if that's sad, then our entire society is sad.
Couldn’t agree more. School serves the role of caring for children AND educating them. Most educators have understood this from the beginning, with only a few snowflakes finding the idea that it is their job to do BOTH offensive.

It has been that way from the beginning. The only way we ever had two working parents was with the idea that kids would be in school all day. Get over it, that’s just the deal that society made with schools eons ago.
__________________
The only thing better than a V10 is a V12
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8324  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 1:27 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 20,779
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
COVID isn't deadlier than AIDS. I think you mean HIV, though. But COVID probably isn't deadlier than HIV, either. HIV without medication is almost 100% fatal. AIDS is pretty much 100% fatal.

However, COVID is an airborne, easily transmissible virus, and HIV is not. It's a nonsensical comparison.
Yup
__________________
The only thing better than a V10 is a V12
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8325  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 1:51 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 59,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by pico44 View Post
Damn, lighten up Francis. A couple things: one, our school district shut down completely for somewhere between two and four weeks starting in February of ‘20. I forget exactly because I was working full time as a front-line physician at the time and I can’t remember. And I refuse to ask my wife because she will ask why-Im-asking, and then I’ll have to tell her I’m having an argument on the internet which will piss her off and make me embarrassed. But, to be absolutely clear and to win this idiotic discussion, our schools were completely and totally closed so you are 100% wrong. I never said it was the wrong decision to close the schools (I actually pushed for it because I was starting to see people crashing from the disease), or that the teachers didn’t need protection; I just said they were closed and this was terrible for children, which makes me objectively correct and you objectively incorrect.

Of course, hahaha, this wasn’t what I meant when I said schools were closed—I meant the year and a half of remote/hybrid learning, which most normal humans would be able to decipher without holding the conversation hostage for a day. In our district, hybrid/remote was a joke for many reasons, and went on for far too long; but I know better than to get tangled up in one of your semantic tentacles.
As I mentioned earlier, you're quite right to point out that most schools were closed outright for a while during the early stages of the pandemic - no in class learning and no online learning.

And as you correctly point out again, even when online learning was set up, for a fairly long time it was a bit of a joke for many students.

It's completely false to say that kids barely missed a beat due to all of this. Most kids' learning progress was compromised to at least some degree.

Many kids will be able to make up for lost time (and often have already I guess) but many others will not.
__________________
Désolé de vous déranger.
(Sorry for making you deranged.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8326  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:23 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think of our local school as a place that will help educate my children AND as a place for them to go to for 7 hours every weekday.

as TWAK said earlier, public schools serve BOTH roles for our society. it's not just only one or the other; there's no need for myopia like that.

and anyone who's ever been a single parent, or part of a 2 working parent household, FULLY understands this dual-role nature of public schools.

if that's sad, then our entire society is sad.

umm, no. that's not their job. and let's not rewrite pandemic history. i guess you forgot about the part that while you were initially home safe on remote off your work site that front line staff like teachers were getting sick and were instantly dropping dead left and right.

so there was no bringing people together in enclosed school rooms during the pandemic until there was a better understanding and vaccines were available.

it was obviously the right thing to do.

now is now though. and as the kids are now able to get vaccines as of recently soon we will even be done with the masks. i dk, but i would guess by next school year at the very latest.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8327  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:26 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
umm, no. that's not their job. and let's not rewrite pandemic history. i guess you forgot about the part that while you were initially home safe on remote off your work site that front line staff like teachers were getting sick and were instantly dropping dead left and right.

so there was no bringing people together in enclosed school rooms during the pandemic until there was a better understanding and vaccines were available.

it was obviously the right thing to do.

now is now though. and as the kids are now able to get vaccines as of recently soon we will even be done with the masks. i dk, but i would guess by next school year at the very latest.
Private schools Including inexpensive Catholic schools opened much more quickly to in class teaching than our ridiculous union controlled public schools. And there were no big issues. If it were up to our teachers union, kids here would still be remote "learning".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8328  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:30 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Private schools Including inexpensive Catholic schools opened much more quickly to in class teaching than our ridiculous union controlled public schools. And there were no big issues. If it were up to our teachers union, kids here would still be remote "learning".
actually no, or maybe that depends?

all i know is nyc schools reopened for in person learning in the spring one month after vaccines became available.

that seems as sensible as possible.

also, you have to wonder about the data reporting for private and parochial.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8329  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:32 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 27,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's completely false to say that kids barely missed a beat due to all of this. Most kids' learning progress was compromised to at least some degree.
This is a strawman, as no one made such a claim.

It's also irrelevant to the reasoning behind switching to remote learning, which was to lower mass deaths.

If, in some bizarre alternate scenario, in-school learning was never paused, teachers would be dead, sick or refuse to work anyways, which would have obviously compromised kids' learning progress too.

And schools had plummeting attendance pre-pause. Parents overwhelmingly wanted remote schools, for a time. Death is a much greater worry than potentially compromised learning.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8330  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:34 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 26,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
it was obviously the right thing to do.
please go back and re-read the last several pages of this thread. i never made any judgement about whether or not closing school BUILDINGS* was the right thing to do or not.

i was just pushing back against crawford's utterly absurd semantics non-sense about how schools "never closed".

when normal people talk about "schools being closed during covid", they're so fucking obviously talking about how the school BUILDINGS* themselves were closed, leaving millions of working parents, who 100% rely on school BUILDINGS* being open, without a place for their children to go and be looked after during the workday.

When some big city teachers unions (chicago) started playing fucking politics with the school BUILDING* closures, even after teachers and staff all had the opportunity to get vaxxed, many parents like me started getting rightfully irritated.


(*) extra emphasis added for those afflicted with VSIS
__________________
"every time a strip mall dies, an angel gets its wings"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8331  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:36 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 27,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Private schools Including inexpensive Catholic schools opened much more quickly to in class teaching than our ridiculous union controlled public schools. And there were no big issues. If it were up to our teachers union, kids here would still be remote "learning".
Catholic schools had plummeting enrollment during the pandemic, and much worse than public schools. So parents generally didn't share your perspective.

My sister has all her kids in a Catholic elementary, and there were most certainly "big issues" with remote learning. It was a mess.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8332  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:39 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 20,779
This whole page is full of strawman arguments

Nobody is arguing that the initial shift to remote learning was a bad idea. What’s wrong with some of you folks?
__________________
The only thing better than a V10 is a V12
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8333  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:44 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 26,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
What’s wrong with some of you folks?
some are just arguing in bad faith because they get off on it.

the other one seems to lack basic reading comprehension skills.
__________________
"every time a strip mall dies, an angel gets its wings"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8334  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:45 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
please go back and reread that last several pages of this thread. i never made any judgement about whether or not closing school BUILDINGS was the right thing to do or not.

i was just pushing back against crawford's utterly absurd semantics non-sense about how schools "never closed".

when normal people talk about "the schools being closed during covid", they're so fucking obviously talking about how the school BUILDINGS themselves were closed closed, leaving millions parents of working parents who rely on school BUILDINGS being open without a place for their children to go and be looked after during the workday.

When some big city teachers unions (chicago) started playing fucking politics with the school BUILDING closures, even after teachers and staff all had the opportunity to get vaxxed, many parents like me started getting rightfully irritated.
yes i did and now you see the difference between the fact that instruction, which is the educators job, was not interrupted at all, or hardly at all. sorry about your kid sitting needs, but that isnt in their job description. and do you also really need reminded it wasn't just schools, that lots of buildings and businesses were closed, including day care naturally? why should front line lives have been needlessly jeopardized? safety should and did come first. one would think you would be glad your kids had their teachers to come back to.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8335  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:45 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 59,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This is a strawman, as no one made such a claim.

It's also irrelevant to the reasoning behind switching to remote learning, which was to lower mass deaths.

If, in some bizarre alternate scenario, in-school learning was never paused, teachers would be dead, sick or refuse to work anyways, which would have obviously compromised kids' learning progress too.

And schools had plummeting attendance pre-pause. Parents overwhelmingly wanted remote schools, for a time. Death is a much greater worry than potentially compromised learning.
People have made the claim that learning was never fully stopped in this very thread!

I am on the same page as TUP: in the early days of the pandemic it was the right decision to make and no one was prepared for this so there was an impact on learning.

The problem is that some people are saying it was no big deal for kids.
__________________
Désolé de vous déranger.
(Sorry for making you deranged.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8336  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:49 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 26,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
sorry about your kid sitting needs, but that isnt in their job description.
yes it is.

to pretend that our society hasn't made that trade-off with our public education system is light years beyond willful ignorance.

so now it's lack of reading comprehension AND arguing in bad faith. awesome!
__________________
"every time a strip mall dies, an angel gets its wings"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8337  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:51 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
People have made the claim that learning was never fully stopped in this very thread!

I am on the same page as TUP: in the early days of the pandemic it was the right decision to make and no one was prepared for this so there was an impact on learning.

The problem is that some people are saying it was no big deal for kids.
no one is saying covid affects on society were no big deal. and afaik learning was never stopped. sure there were struggles with remote learning, but those were overcome. there were struggles with businesses adapting as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8338  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:54 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
yes it is.

to pretend that our society hasn't made that trade-off with our public education system is light years beyond willful ignorance.

so now it's lack of reading comprehension AND arguing in bad faith. awesome!

o rilly? so how did those daycare alternatives work out during the pandemic when your kids were on remote learning?

i thought so.

so maybe slow your ad hominem roll too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8339  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:56 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 27,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
People have made the claim that learning was never fully stopped in this very thread!
In NYC, in 2020, the last day of in-school learning was Wednesday, March 15, and the first day of remote learning was Monday, March 20. So there were two days missed, which weren't lost as they added two days at end of year. I bet this is pretty typical, as there's no need to lose days, when you can add them at end of year or remove vacation days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am on the same page as TUP: in the early days of the pandemic it was the right decision to make and no one was prepared for this so there was an impact on learning.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The problem is that some people are saying it was no big deal for kids.
I don't think anyone would make such a claim.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8340  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:56 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 26,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
so how did those daycare alternatives work out during the pandemic when your kids were on remote learning?
just fine. my younger son attended his day care every weekday without issue for 5 months while my kindergarten daughter stared into a laptop screen all day long.
__________________
"every time a strip mall dies, an angel gets its wings"
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:23 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.