CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[eleven=11]

what does the rental car building look like
and does it connect to the ATS.

the new one in miami is perfect.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by k1052

Maybe once the ATS extension is done Metra can buy a few DMUs and do an express service out of Union operating every 15 minutes or so. Seems a little more cost effective than CTA spending hundreds of millions to do it.

Yes, they will have extension from economy parking lots or entire terminal 1 but, I am not quite sure. I guess they will have extended to RCC from T1.

[Kngkyle]

Nothing big, but United has announced a new seasonal European destination from ORD: Shannon, Ireland.

Will be 5x weekly on a 757.

Kind of interesting because United doesn't serve Dublin from Chicago, but American and Aer Lingus have up to 3x daily next summer. I wouldn't be surprised to see UA start ORD-DUB in the nearfuture and AA subsequently discontinuing it.

Hopefully UA will add more TATL 757 service to cities like Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham.

[denizen467]

^ That's very peculiar about Shannon before Dublin. Is it a landing-slot allocation thing?
Also, why do you predict UA in, and AA out, of the DUB route? Because of AA's current problems?
Finally, is "TATL" common jargon for transatlantic?

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by denizen467

^ That's very peculiar about Shannon before Dublin. Is it a landing-slot allocation thing?
Also, why do you predict UA in, and AA out, of the DUB route? Because of AA's current problems?
Finally, is "TATL" common jargon for transatlantic?

Shannon comes before Dublin likely because there is currently no service on the route. Aer Lingus stopped their ORD-SNN service in 2009 I believe. Aer Lingus didn't have the right size equipment for the route. The A330 was simply too large. United's 757s are perfect. ORD-DUB on the other hand, has up to 3x daily flights during peak season. So UA would have a lot more competition and something would have to give, because 4x daily is simply too much.

AA has been cutting nearly all their TATL routes in favor of routing everyone through LHR with their partner British Airways. Hell, AA recently cut their flights from Chicago and Dallas to Frankfurt, which is easily one of the top air destinations in Europe. Outside of London, the AA TATL network is tiny compared to United and Delta and only getting smaller. Delta has 29 European destinations, United 27, American 11. Hopefully going through bankrupcy will allow them to restore some of their former glory.

And yes tatl = transatlantic, tcon = transcontinental, tpac = transpacific. Common avgeek lingo.

[Kngkyle]

In other news, Qatar Airways will be starting service from Doha in April. They hinted that it was coming and I think it was mentioned here before, but now it's official.

Daily 777-300ER.


Now Emirates is the only of the 3 big Middle Eastern airlines (Emirates, Qatar Airways, Etihad) not serving Chicago, and that will probably change soon enough.

http://www.qatarairways.com/english_...lease_20120814

[F1 Tommy]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

In other news, Qatar Airways will be starting service from Doha in April. They hinted that it was coming and I think it was mentioned here before, but now it's official.

Daily 777-300ER.


Now Emirates is the only of the 3 big Middle Eastern airlines (Emirates, Qatar Airways, Etihad) not serving Chicago, and that will probably change soon enough.

http://www.qatarairways.com/english_...lease_20120814

That is good news. We knew it was coming but this is official.

I really hope AA gets back on it's game or UA will own ORD in a few years. That would make fares go up wich is not good other than for United. AA still
have almost the same flights, but most are not mainline anymore. They are way to focused on DFW as usual.

[DCCliff]

Originally Posted by eleven=11

what does the rental car building look like
and does it connect to the ATS.

the new one in miami is perfect.

I know I should be glad this is happening; but I'm skeptical. Unlike the good new Miami system, the ATS at O'Hare is not especially user-friendly. And the physical config is such that an arrival at he United terminal has a LOOONG way to go with many stops in order to reach the Lot F site of the new rental center. This would work a lot better if the ATS could somehow be upgraded.

I do agree with the idea of a DMU to the O'Hare station. But it should definitely be first tested for use (with existing equipment) since the station is poorly placed. Neither travellers or employees (yes, it should somehow accommodate employees at a different fare level) may find the inconvenient location very useful. A not-too-expensive (but highly unlikely) alternative would be a north-central track spur from near the Rosemont station into the airport with a new station near the present ATS service loop(allowing for a transfer from/to the ATS); then the track could run north and rejoin the main line near the present O'Hare station. Pipe dream, I know.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by DCCliff

...the physical config is such that an arrival at he United terminal has a LOOONG way to go with many stops in order to reach the Lot F site of the new rental center. This would work a lot better if the ATS could somehow be upgraded.

I wonder if closing the loop from T1 back towards T5 would be possible (assuming ridership justified it). Though maybe a bigger problem is the worse-than-a-joke escalators and elevators between the stations and the concourses.

Originally Posted by DCCliff

A not-too-expensive (but highly unlikely) alternative would be a north-central track spur from near the Rosemont station into the airport with a new station near the present ATS service loop(allowing for a transfer from/to the ATS); then the track could run north and rejoin the main line near the present O'Hare station. Pipe dream, I know.

Cool idea, but maybe a pipe dream; upgrading the ATS might be money better spent. Though your idea made me think about an ATS spur right into the Rosemont convention complex, which is now booming with new entertainment, office, and related facilities. However, I figure the City of Chicago would never embark on an ATS project that would help a rival (quasi-rival) to McCormick Place (as well as all the other meeting facilities downtown).

[ardecila]

Better (and cheaper) to just redesign the interchange at River Road to create a strong pedestrian connection into Rosemont from the Blue Line. You could open up quite a bit of land by eliminating the cloverleafs, which could be sold to defray the cost.

[spyguy]

New consolidated rental car facility + ATS station

[Rail Claimore]

^No Metra station connection? I'm disappointed... even if it's through a parking garage, they have a golden opportunity for one.

[ardecila]

Seems like it could easily be retrofitted for a very gracious Metra connection. They have those wide-open courtyards forming a ready-made path to the Metra station.

It looks like the "ground" of the courtyards is at the 3rd floor, so passengers at a future Metra platform could go up to that level on an escalator and walk through the courtyard and rental-car facility to the ATS platform through a wide, generous space. Not as nice as a quick cross-platform transfer but pretty nice compared to the Midway transfer.

I'm guessing the hangup is an interagency one. Metra probably doesn't want to overload its NCS trains with O'Hare-bound passengers when the Blue Line aready exists. Hopefully we can come back at a future date with signal and siding upgrades that allow for a frequent O'Hare Express service, at which point we could get a nice station.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Seems like it could easily be retrofitted for a very gracious Metra connection. They have those wide-open courtyards forming a ready-made path to the Metra station.

It looks like the "ground" of the courtyards is at the 3rd floor, so passengers at a future Metra platform could go up to that level on an escalator and walk through the courtyard and rental-car facility to the ATS platform through a wide, generous space. Not as nice as a quick cross-platform transfer but pretty nice compared to the Midway transfer.

I'm guessing the hangup is an interagency one. Metra probably doesn't want to overload its NCS trains with O'Hare-bound passengers when the Blue Line aready exists. Hopefully we can come back at a future date with signal and siding upgrades that allow for a frequent O'Hare Express service, at which point we could get a nice station.

Metra would need to build a more substantial station and platform(s) to accommodate express service, it would have been nice if that could have been timed to happen with this project along with ordering DMU rolling stock since we're already spending the money to extend the ATS. I mean this project has been on the board for years at this point and is still going to take several to finish. The Blue line is also often crowded and nearly impossible at rush if you have luggage.

It seems like Metra is totally incapable of cooperating with anyone outside the agency and simply resists all changes out of habit. The CTA seems downright progressive in comparison.

[the urban politician]

Call this a dumb question, but how is it that the ATS can be extended so easily, yet to extend a CTA rail line requires years of exhaustive studies and meetings only to maybe get the funding, all at the cost of billions of dollars?

[k1052]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Call this a dumb question, but how is it that the ATS can be extended so easily, yet to extend a CTA rail line requires years of exhaustive studies and meetings only to maybe get the funding, all at the cost of billions of dollars?

The ATS doesn't need federal new starts money to get extended only 1000ish feet. A 5+ mile heavy rail extension does.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Call this a dumb question, but how is it that the ATS can be extended so easily, yet to extend a CTA rail line requires years of exhaustive studies and meetings only to maybe get the funding, all at the cost of billions of dollars?

The studies are a requirement for getting money from FTA. The ATS extension is paid for with airport money (not sure if it's FAA grants or ticket revenues). Different pots of money, different requirements.

Plus, the ATS extension is entirely on City-owned land, so the City can do what it wants on its own property so long as it has the money.

Originally Posted by k1052

It seems like Metra is totally incapable of cooperating with anyone outside the agency and simply resists all changes out of habit. The CTA seems downright progressive in comparison.

Right, so you plan your CONRAC so it can easily be converted into a decent intermodal center if/when Metra stops being stupid - which is exactly what they did. They even kept the space next to the tracks clear, except for an access road that can easily be shifted westward later.

[Rizzo]

For some reason I recall this being alot closer to the RPZ and they would have possibly had to stair-step the garage. Sinking the whole thing partially underground works too.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Seems like it could easily be retrofitted for a very gracious Metra connection. They have those wide-open courtyards forming a ready-made path to the Metra station.

It looks like the "ground" of the courtyards is at the 3rd floor, so passengers at a future Metra platform could go up to that level on an escalator and walk through the courtyard and rental-car facility to the ATS platform through a wide, generous space. Not as nice as a quick cross-platform transfer but pretty nice compared to the Midway transfer.

Sounds like a very strong possibility, lets only hope that the arrangement of the parking garage ramps dont prohibit a smooth, single plane, transfer. It would be a total PITA to continuously have to move way up, then down, then down some more. Car free and single level please.

[Kippis]

Small, but important update as it directly affects the construction of the southernmost runway planned -- the old Irving Park Rd. alignment between York Rd. and Mannheim has finally been fully rerouted as of this morning.