Downtown grocery store

[haljackey]

London needs a grocery store downtown.

Where could one be located?

[K85]

off of Fullarton I'd say

[jammer139]

Number of issues with a full scale grocery store in downtown:


Not enough population density to support it. Although if the residential tower building boom continues and we can add 5000+ residents that will help alot.


We already have the Covent Market and Shoppers although not a full grocery.


Where you see full grocery stores they like having parking. Real challenge downtown. You find full grocery stores in Toronto downtown at subway stations and they often do not have parking. But they have massively higher density of people. London does not have that downtown.


Having said that a full grocery might work years from now as part of a large residential project located in the podium base and include parking as part of it. Will need to see many more high rise towers to increase residential densities before hand.



Ayerswood towers at Clarence and King, Wellington at York surface parking lots. East of convention centre parking lot.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by jammer139

Wellington at York surface parking lots.

Maybe we can get a Dominion store there lol

[ssiguy]

A downtown grocery store is needed and will eventually get built as the number of people living downtown continues to soar. Also these downtown dwellers are far more likely to be car-less so going to the burbs is often not optional.

It certainly doesn't need a big one but more the size of a small/medium sized Metro. Of course the pushback will not be from the City or downtowners but rather from the merchants in Covent Garden Market who will think this will eat into their shopping base. I personally don't think that is an issue as the Market is more of a destination than a grocery store. No one goes to the Market to save money on their groceries but rather due to the shopping and entertainment niche it fills.

[tyeman200]

Why not put it at the corner of Dundas/Richmond where the old Rexall was? Or would be nice if one of the private building developers had one in their plans with a highrise, as I see this lots in the GTA area. Grocery store at the bottom and a 30 story highrise or so up top.

[Djeffery]

I'm sure it's just a matter of the store companies trying to figure out if they can make money with those smaller stores. Toronto is one thing when you have a wack of people living within a couple blocks, and it's also not very quick and easy to zip out to a full size store. I stayed in a building near Rogers Centre for a few days a couple years ago that had a small grocery store on the street level, and also a larger format Shoppers across the road with a larger grocery section than what we see here. I noticed it was rather expensive to shop there for the few things I picked up for the stay. As it happened, someone else from the building had a couple bags with them from the store as we shared an elevator ride. Surprisingly (as I assumed most people down there keep to themselves), they asked if I was new to the building. I just said I was doing the Airbnb thing for a few days. I commented on the store and that it must be expensive to do groceries that way. He said he usually hit that place a couple times a week, and then every so often, Uber out to a Costco or a larger grocery store. Definitely a lifestyle change from what I'm used to.

Here, I don't know what the number of people who don't drive is in downtown London that would spend a little more to shop at a downtown smaller format grocery store is, but I imagine that we are a bit away from the required number. Many people downtown still have cars, and also there are a few grocery stores that aren't that difficult to get to from downtown (a couple Valumarts, even the No Frills at Baseline and Wharncliffe, a friend downtown used to go to Metro at Cherryhill).

[bolognium]

I've been living downtown for almost a decade now. While I would love a full-size grocery store down here, I definitely get by without one.

Shoppers is expensive if you just go in randomly and buy what you need, when you need it. However, they have very good prices when things go on sale. I tend to buy things only when they're on sale, and stock up for a week or two at a time. Like if toilet paper is on sale, even if I don't need any at the moment I'll buy some. If bacon or yogurt or soap or cat food is on sale, same deal. Plus with a PC credit card, and taking advantage of online Optimum points promotions, it's actually really affordable if you're smart.

I also make a weekly trip to the Bulk Barrel in the Galleria, and multiple small trips to the Market for produce, meat, bread etc. Like what Dj said, it's just a bit of a lifestyle change to what people are accustomed to, but totally manageable.

I also probably eat-out a bit more often than the average person Cousin Vinny's walk-in specials, Subway, shawarma, Chinese and Thai food. Lots of pretty affordable take-out options within a block of me in every direction.

Like I said, a full-size grocery store to round out my options would be lovely, but I've made do for years without thinking too much about it.

[ssiguy]

When a grocery decides it makes financial sense to open a store they will do it before someone else does. These grocery stores are extremely expensive to built and operate and so companies want to make sure the business case is sound.

Curious...………..is there any space left in the Galleria for a small/mid-size grocery store?

[DWBrown]

A full grocery store could be built on Adelaide Street on the same side as the Impact Church. There is a vacant lot there that could be totally developed for a full sized grocery store to be built on that land. It would be a real good location as it is just right there off the downtown core limits and it would serve the entire downtown core and Soho and Old East London regions.

[GreatTallNorth2]

There is a good size grocery store at Oxford and Richmond, pretty much downtown IMHO.

[DWBrown]

That's the No Frills grocery store. It is good for that area itself, but building another where I mentioned would be a real good area with the growing interest in development coming plus the access is in a good area for traffic to flow without the lights like at Richmond and Oxford Streets.

[Djeffery]

It's Valu Mart, not No Frills. And I think that location on Adelaide is a terrible location for a grocery store, never mind as one marketed at downtown residents. A grocery store at Adelaide and Hamilton isn't going to attract downtown shoppers any more than that Valu Mart, or the Wortley Valu Mart. The idea of a downtown grocery store is it actually be downtown, where residents can walk to. If they have to drive to Adelaide, they might as well drive to any of the other half dozen grocery stores in the same radius away.

[ssiguy]

I think the best place for a grocery store is the huge lot on York between Wellington and Waterloo that is currently up for sale.

It is big enough to have a good size store and some ground level parking as well the large docking areas that such stores require. It is a perfect central location for the downtown's swelling population, SOHO, and Old East.

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

There is a good size grocery store at Oxford and Richmond, pretty much downtown IMHO.

I live downtown but I don't even consider going to Richmond & Oxford because it's too far to walk. I guess that intersection is technically downtown but it could also be considered Old North and it probably serves students more than it does downtown residents.

[GreatTallNorth2]

When I lived in the UK, there were several options for grocery shopping in the city centre of the city of 80,000 where I lived. Not big grocery stores, but smaller format stores owned by the same brand that had larger centres. Tesco & Sainsbury have superstores for the suburbs and mini stores that have all the staples & more in the smaller format stores. In fact the mini stores were all over town making it convenient to walk to one when you don't need to do a big "shop". Think of them as our variety stores, but offering much more and not gauging on the pricing. No reason Loblaws could not do some smaller format stores like this too. In fact, to me it looks like Shoppers is kind of doing this now.

[haljackey]

Some Shoppers Drug Marts are now selling fresh produce and limited meat and bakery offerings.

It's too bad the downtown store doesn't have this; these are usually just in the larger stores that also have an electronics section. Knowing the crime downtown, it's understandable why the downtown store doesn't sell electronics.

If a new, huge development takes place at Queens & Talbot, maybe a small urban Sobey's can be built on the ground level. The Market will hate that however.

[jammer139]

An interesting site for a future grocery store could be SE corner of Wellington and South St. Could be part of the SOHO redevelopment and bring new life to the south end of downtown with major high rise developments. Future growth of London's downtown core should happen south of the CN tracks towards the river. Lot's of opportunities there for projects.

[GreatTallNorth2]

I just got off the phone with a real estate salesperson who was asking if I would be interested in opening a cafe at CitiPlaza (I currently own a cafe in London). He said that they are looking for a cafe and that potentially both Metro and LCBO are looking at opening in CitiPlaza. So for what that's worth, that is pretty big news for downtown if that happens.

[jammer139]

That would be a big story if it happens. Would imagine it would be the south side were the restaurant just closed and the ground floor of the old Eatons if it's currently vacant.

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I just got off the phone with a real estate salesperson who was asking if I would be interested in opening a cafe at CitiPlaza (I currently own a cafe in London). He said that they are looking for a cafe and that potentially both Metro and LCBO are looking at opening in CitiPlaza. So for what that's worth, that is pretty big news for downtown if that happens.