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  #421  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 4:23 PM
BBMW BBMW is offline
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The only proper place for a new bus terminal (note that I left out "Port Authority") is at the Meadowlands. We don't need NJs buses in Manhattan.
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  #422  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2020, 6:27 PM
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Theoretically obvious. Practically a non-starter. Turning a one-seat ride into two (with a rail link that does not currently exist and Penn has no room for) for hundreds of thousands of NJ commuters + long distance passengers would be politically impossible to make palatable. The west side has the room for a new PABT, design will be most important to lessen its impact.
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  #423  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2020, 1:21 PM
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I really hope that the PABT is redeveloped. To the extent that it must remain in Manhattan, I like the idea of putting it below Javits. I also hope that moving it from its current site would enable the city to get rid of that horrible spaghetti network to the south and west of the PABT. That should become a park and the air right should be sold.

https://therealdeal.com/2020/10/12/p...-land-to-sell/
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  #424  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2020, 6:16 PM
jamesinclair jamesinclair is offline
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Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
The only proper place for a new bus terminal (note that I left out "Port Authority") is at the Meadowlands. We don't need NJs buses in Manhattan.
About as brilliant of an idea as knocking down Grand Central because we dont need Connecticut trains in Manhattan.
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  #425  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2020, 2:23 PM
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Love to see something like this built. Very unique looking ground level. The biggest tower looks way over 1000ft, though be nice to get something 1700ft+ here.
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  #426  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2020, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
The only proper place for a new bus terminal (note that I left out "Port Authority") is at the Meadowlands. We don't need NJs buses in Manhattan.
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Originally Posted by jamesinclair View Post
About as brilliant of an idea as knocking down Grand Central because we dont need Connecticut trains in Manhattan.
In all honestly, there will probably be a need for two major bus terminals in the next couple of decades. There is a physical limit on how many cars and busses can enter the Lincoln and Holland tunnel during peak periods and we were very close to that limit pre-COVID-19. At some point, there needs to be additional trans-Hudson rail capacity or NYC will be chocked. Honestly, the Journal Square Transportation Center will probably end up growing and becoming more of a regional hub with direct access to Midtown and the World Trade Center.
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  #427  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 4:48 AM
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This rendering released by the governor doesn't seem to indicate any open space. Sure it's probably not a final design, but it's location is where the open plaza was depicted...















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  #428  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 1:16 PM
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This is going to sound bad, but I wonder if that was a deliberate decision to remove the green areas so low income persons/homeless would not have a place to congregate. A park near a major bus station with plenty of tourists would be an excellent place to panhandle.

I’m sure I’m wrong on this one but the thought crossed my mind.
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  #429  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 4:06 PM
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This is going to sound bad, but I wonder if that was a deliberate decision to remove the green areas so low income persons/homeless would not have a place to congregate. A park near a major bus station with plenty of tourists would be an excellent place to panhandle.

I’m sure I’m wrong on this one but the thought crossed my mind.

I don't think that had anything to do with it. You actually see less of that sort of thing in the parks. But as we know with any new development, if they don't want the homeless there, they won't be there. The best way to deal with the homeless problem is to handle it so people aren't on the street in the first place.



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  #430  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 5:13 PM
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The best way to deal with the homeless problem is to handle it so people aren't on the street in the first place.
I wholeheartedly agree!

So any theories on why the park is gone. Simple maximizing the highest and best use of the land from certain perspectives?
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  #431  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 6:29 PM
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This is good news. Time to get moving, already.

We need a new bus terminal complex, we need the office towers above, we need those horrible ramps removed and redeveloped with new office and residential towers. Push this forward, Cuomo!

Also, some of the interior renderings of the new PABT are pretty epic:

https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-reveals-...ort-authority/
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  #432  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 7:53 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree!

So any theories on why the park is gone. Simple maximizing the highest and best use of the land from certain perspectives?
Well judging from the renders I think simply that the design has pivoted from a subterranean terminal to a new above ground terminal. If that's the case we might not significantly see a reworking of the ramps at the site.
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  #433  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
This is good news. Time to get moving, already.

We need a new bus terminal complex, we need the office towers above, we need those horrible ramps removed and redeveloped with new office and residential towers. Push this forward, Cuomo!

Also, some of the interior renderings of the new PABT are pretty epic:

https://www.6sqft.com/cuomo-reveals-...ort-authority/
Those interior renderings are of Penn Station - new atrium squeezed between MSG and 2 Penn.

I'm not sure the ramps will go away either, the only schemes that got rid of the ramps also moved PABT west of 9th Ave, or moved everything underground. But the new renderings appear to show PABT being rebuilt in place, so my guess is that the ramps just get rebuilt as needed.
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  #434  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 8:58 PM
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Yeah, the interior renderings appear to be the Empire Station complex, not the PABT.

But it isn't the current Penn, it appears to be Penn South. There's nowhere in the current Penn you could build what they're showing, and the current Penn will remain, just enhanced. Even if MSG is removed, you wouldn't have anything like that below ground on those blocks. But the Penn South blocks will be completely leveled and essentially a blank template.

If the PABT ramps have to stay, then they still need to be covered and developed. They're currently a blight and waste of space.
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  #435  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2021, 9:20 PM
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No the Penn South sign is indicating a passage under 31st St to the new platforms. The atrium itself appears to be squeezed between MSG and 2 Penn Plaza where the loading areas are now.
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  #436  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by C. View Post
I wholeheartedly agree!

So any theories on why the park is gone. Simple maximizing the highest and best use of the land from certain perspectives?
Most likely, but it just looks like the footprint of the bus terminal stays the same.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
No the Penn South sign is indicating a passage under 31st St to the new platforms. The atrium itself appears to be squeezed between MSG and 2 Penn Plaza where the loading areas are now.
That atrium is on the south side of 31st Street, where the new Penn Station expansion will be, along with two towers above.



Another look at the bus terminal concept...


https://twitter.com/Coptic_Chad/stat...78664705613825





https://twitter.com/TimeOutNewYork/s...55338880868364

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  #437  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 6:59 PM
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That atrium is on the south side of 31st Street, where the new Penn Station expansion will be, along with two towers above.
This is incorrect. Note the pylons denoting the track locations in the rendering. Remember that the tracks run from east to west.
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  #438  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2021, 8:41 PM
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This is incorrect. Note the pylons denoting the track locations in the rendering. Remember that the tracks run from east to west.
I know the tracks run east west, but that's not something that's necessarily accurate. I posted in the other thread, there is an active driveway that runs beneath the MSG bridge that will remain.










This is the entrance to Penn that is taking shape on the northern (33rd St) side:







For better context, this is the version of the same new train hall as it was proposed by JDS development a few years ago. In it you can clearly see MSG and the Farley Building (Moynihan) which gives the perspective looking west.










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  #439  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2021, 6:04 PM
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https://www.politico.com/states/new-...ucture-1358778

Plans call for new Port Authority bus terminal to be built atop existing structure


By SAMANTHA MALDONADO
01/20/2021


Quote:
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey will build a new bus terminal atop the existing structure in Midtown Manhattan and incorporate on-site bus parking and infrastructure for electric buses, according to a New Jersey lawmaker who has been briefed on the plan.

“They’re not designing a bus terminal to accommodate what we see today, but what we anticipate in the future,” state Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg told POLITICO Wednesday afternoon.
Quote:
The build-in-place approach, one of three main options the bi-state agency had considered in planning to replace the terminal, will allow buses to continue servicing the existing terminal during construction.

An internal document obtained by POLITICO from December 2020 details the process of the construction work and the footprint the project will take. An included preliminary timeline estimates that construction will begin in 2024. A temporary facility will open in 2028, and the permanent facility will open in 2031.

The new terminal will also include off-street parking for buses.

“That helps the people in that geographic area to not have a lot of local buses on the street they don’t need,” Weinberg said, adding that the parking availability would put an end to buses that service New Jersey-to-New York routes driving around empty between trips.
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  #440  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2021, 6:24 PM
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Sounds like they will go with option 3...



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