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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:30 PM
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Big boxes ruined lower Manhattan...are pencil towers ruining Midtown's skyline?

In my view, the lower Manhattan skyline of the late 1920s-early 1950s was the most attractive skyline in the history of skylines. Many have lamented how the skyline of elegant thin towers (featuring setbacks) of Lower Manhattan was overwhelmed (and for me, ruined) by the boring/ugly big boxy skyscrapers of the 1960s and 1970s.



Today there is another proliferation that is dramatically altering the skyline: this time, Midtown Manhattan, with many bemoaning how the pencil towers have ruined the aesthetics of that skyline. Individually, these pencil towers are quite interesting, but I have not decided whether they are augmenting or detracting from the Midtown skyline.

what do you guys think?


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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:34 PM
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Onwards and upwards is what I think!
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:35 PM
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Lower Manhattan was extended outward after the first skyscrapers were built, meaning the new boxes came to hide the older towers.

Yes, the pencil-thin residential towers are ugly.

After the World Trade Center towers were destroyed, for about ten years Manhattan returned to a balanced logic with the Empire State Building as a central point where the eye and mind could orient themselves. Now the overall skyline looks like a cluttered junk shop.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:37 PM
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I'm not really a fan of those skinny towers, but since they are building so many they are starting to look less out of place.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:52 PM
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Modern skyscrapers are built to maximize the zoning requirements while being profitable.

Imagine what it would cost to build the Woolworth Building nowadays. Let's say you owned a plot of land on 57th street in Manhattan, wouldn't you build to the maximum of what you can make profitable?

It's becoming evident now that new office buildings will have a lot more outdoor space and that should make for some more interesting office building designs.

As far as the pencil towers, it's more of the space available in a desirable location issue. I find them nicer when they at least taper to the top.

Woolworth Building by Dan Gaken, on Flickr
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:54 PM
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I don't understand how both opinions can be simultaneously true.

If fat towers ruined Lower Manhattan's skinny profile, fine. If skinny towers ruined Midtown Manhattan's fat profile, fine. But how could both statements be true?
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:56 PM
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The skinny towers are mostly just bad architecture and totally out of sync with the vibe of the skyline. I guess if more of them are built, it will look less haphazard and more like Coruscant.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 4:57 PM
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I think that the skyline has never been ruined, and it would be very, very, very hard to do so. The super skinny supertalls are just another compliment to it.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 5:07 PM
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Yes! As most have said they are mostly shitty and banal architecturally.

They're like a giant middle finger from the very rich to everyone else.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 5:08 PM
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Also, 432 Park looks like it's aging badly to me. Does it look that way to anyone else? It's only a decade old but it's starting to look a little dingy from the outside.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 5:31 PM
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I don't generally care for the tall skinnies or the fat boxes, but "ruin" is an awfully strong word.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 5:50 PM
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I dont like the skinny towers either. I wouldnt say it ruins the skyline but it does detract from it
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 5:53 PM
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quite the opposite. The pencil towers are creating much more visual interest in a skyline which previously was relatively table-top and uninteresting beyond it's sheer scale.

People who dislike them dislike them for "change" reasons alone. NYC Is a city that has always evolved and changed, and the ~1980-2010 period was the anomaly in the city with it's relatively slow pace of growth and change. These new towers are new, but they are not bad, and they cannot ruin a skyline which has always been in itself a living thing which changes and evolves, sometimes dramatically.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't understand how both opinions can be simultaneously true.

If fat towers ruined Lower Manhattan's skinny profile, fine. If skinny towers ruined Midtown Manhattan's fat profile, fine. But how could both statements be true?
Could be true if one's proclivity was for overall skyline cohesive and consistency rather than for any particular building style or form factor. In that case, a skyline in which there was some established aesthetic agreement between the buildings giving the skyline a particular essence would be ruined by anything that upended that and created disharmony.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
quite the opposite. The pencil towers are creating much more visual interest in a skyline which previously was relatively table-top and uninteresting beyond it's sheer scale.

People who dislike them dislike them for "change" reasons alone.
A lot of people disliked them because they looked very out of place. It didn't have anything to do with "change" for many people.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
quite the opposite. The pencil towers are creating much more visual interest in a skyline which previously was relatively table-top and uninteresting beyond it's sheer scale.

People who dislike them dislike them for "change" reasons alone. NYC Is a city that has always evolved and changed, and the ~1980-2010 period was the anomaly in the city with it's relatively slow pace of growth and change. These new towers are new, but they are not bad, and they cannot ruin a skyline which has always been in itself a living thing which changes and evolves, sometimes dramatically.
I think you're making an unwarranted assumptions by saying the only possible reason people could dislike one particular change is a dislike of change itself. Like, what if some of them would love the addition of a few huge Willis tower scale office complexes? That would certainly be a form of change wouldn't it?
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  #17  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 6:55 PM
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Yeah those towers are awful. Do they all have to be so boring architecturally? I guess you can't do much with the limited space.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badrunner View Post
Yeah those towers are awful. Do they all have to be so boring architecturally? I guess you can't do much with the limited space.
Blasphemy, 111 57th and 53W53 are beauties!
2021 Pencil Tower 111 West 57th St - Steinway Tower 0351 by Brecht Bug, on Flickr

Crystalline Financial by Jeffrey Johnson, on Flickr
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 7:40 PM
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I'm fine with them, yes architecturally some has a lot to be desired, but I am patient, they are still evolving. Engineering-wise I think they are marvels of building constructions, so, from that standpoint I accept them. Just like electric cars, they ain't going away, lol.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 7:53 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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The Skyscraper Museum has an interesting (albeit brief) exhibit and explanation of how supertall and super slim 111 W. 57th was engineered.

The design isn't my cup of tea (I prefer early to mid-20th century buildings) but its hard not to appreciate what goes into the design and construction.
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