HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 7:13 PM
TWAK's Avatar
TWAK TWAK is offline
Resu Deretsiger
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lake County, CA
Posts: 14,832
Here's LA!

source
__________________
nobody cares about your city
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 9:25 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWAK View Post
Here's LA!

source
Man that single road between Hyde Park and LAX , Masterpiece
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 12:16 AM
Chicago3rd Chicago3rd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cranston, Rhode Island
Posts: 8,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Jacksonville. And I’m deadass serious.
The biggest cheat in the USA.
__________________
All the photos "I" post are photos taken by me and can be found on my photo pages @ http://wilbsnodgrassiii.smugmug.com// UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED and CREDITED.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 12:21 AM
Chicago3rd Chicago3rd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cranston, Rhode Island
Posts: 8,695
Lived in San Antonio in the 80's when they claimed to be the 10th largest city in the US. They were 42nd in metro population. My view is MSA and or CSMA is the city. The boundaries are artificial. Populated areas that connect via urban development and or commute is the actual size of the City. Boston is 8.4 million. (not from the Northeast). New York City is 22 million. Just how I view cities.
__________________
All the photos "I" post are photos taken by me and can be found on my photo pages @ http://wilbsnodgrassiii.smugmug.com// UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED and CREDITED.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 4:41 AM
TWAK's Avatar
TWAK TWAK is offline
Resu Deretsiger
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lake County, CA
Posts: 14,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Man that single road between Hyde Park and LAX , Masterpiece
I wonder what year they were able to do it since it's a ridiculous process to annex anything in CA.
Oh and a large city with small population? California City! 3rd largest in the state by area.

source
__________________
nobody cares about your city
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 5:19 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 29,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Man that single road between Hyde Park and LAX , Masterpiece
Chicago has a similar super-skinny land strip within city limits to connect the city to its 13 sq. mile ORD appendage.

The city limits of Chicago include a 185' wide strip of land that runs for about .75 miles along foster avenue between River Rd. And Mannheim Rd. to physically link the city to its main airport.

There are no residential structures within that narrow little strip, though there are a handful of commercial properties that have a "Chicago, IL" address.
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 6:53 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Chicago has a similar super-skinny land strip within city limits to connect the city to its 13 sq. mile ORD appendage.

The city limits of Chicago include a 185' wide strip of land that runs for about .75 miles along foster avenue between River Rd. And Mannheim Rd. to physically link the city to its main airport.

There are no residential structures within that narrow little strip, though there are a handful of commercial properties that have a "Chicago, IL" address.
This is what causes that oddity of a sliver of Chicago falling within DuPage County, I believe.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 8:28 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,584
I present to you all

Buckeye AZ, Home to 74,000 people and a hole lot of empty desert.

10 years ago it had 45,000 people.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2022, 5:50 PM
mr1138 mr1138 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago3rd View Post
Lived in San Antonio in the 80's when they claimed to be the 10th largest city in the US. They were 42nd in metro population. My view is MSA and or CSMA is the city. The boundaries are artificial. Populated areas that connect via urban development and or commute is the actual size of the City. Boston is 8.4 million. (not from the Northeast). New York City is 22 million. Just how I view cities.
I completely agree. I know these are crude tools, and some people prefer to think about contiguous urban area, as opposed to MSA or CSMA which include small towns and rural residential outside the cities, but it's the best tool that we have since government subdivisions, like counties or townships, vary so widely from state to state.

I find it extremely grating when mainstream news reporters say things like "Houston is the fourth largest city in America," or "NYC has 8 million citizens," when this absolutely WARPS the reality of the situation (NYC is 22 million, as you say, and Houston metro would land it 9th on the CSA list - not 4th).

If we were to only use city-proper population, it would make San Francisco appear to be barely larger than Denver (in reality, it is more like the size of Boston). And would make Phoenix appear to be almost twice the size of Seattle, when the reality is it is actually smaller.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2022, 5:55 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is offline
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I present to you all

Buckeye AZ, Home to 74,000 people and a hole lot of empty desert.

10 years ago it had 45,000 people.

Did someone from Ohio name that town?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2022, 10:07 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
E pluribus unum
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 31,254
Not me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 3:47 AM
Comrade's Avatar
Comrade Comrade is offline
They all float down here
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hair City, Utah
Posts: 9,447
Salt Lake City actually has a sizable amount of land area but a good chunk of it is basically either mountain or unhabitable:



There's always been talks about merging the city and the county. I have gone back and forth in supporting/opposing the idea.

But really, one thing that a merger would do was change the political dynamics of the city significantly. Salt Lake City would go from super blue to more purple since the south-county is very conservative (here's a breakdown of the 2020 election between Biden and Trump - Biden won Salt Lake County 53-41):



The more I do think about it, though, the less likely I support a full merger. But I do believe Salt Lake City should merge with Magna, South Salt Lake, Millcreek and part of Holladay.

Here's the current breakdown of communities in Salt Lake County:



What I would do (btw, don't mind my crude map lol):

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 3:38 PM
PhillyRising's Avatar
PhillyRising PhillyRising is offline
America's Hometown
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lionville, PA
Posts: 11,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Yep. A lot of municipalities in Pennsylvania make no sense. A lot of "boroughs" are surrounded by townships which go by the same name as the borough, but are technically separate municipalities with their own governments. It's really silly. I've long thought a lot of these townships should be dissolved into the borough they surround, municipalities merged, etc.

Of course, no standing politician will give up the municipality they govern.
I always thought the counties should assume most of the public services in Pennsylvania. Why have all these police and fire depts? Just make it a county service. It would help distressed towns financially like Norristown, Pottstown, Coatesville and Chester and give more resources to the outlier areas of the suburban counties who currently have small or no services. The war would be over school districts as the areas with better schools won't want to give up their advantages by being merged into a county wide school district. People would rather pay the outrageous school taxes to keep them better than the poorer ones.

Philadelphia is the smallest city landwise of the ten most populated cities in the US. If Philly was as large as Houston or Phoenix by adding in land from Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware and possibly Chester Counties, it would have a much bigger population than both of them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 9:55 PM
Minato Ku's Avatar
Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
Tokyo and Paris fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 4,168
Everyone love to complain about the administratives limits in the USA but France is quite bad about the small size of its city limits and the fact it doesn't reflect the reality of the City.

The urban area of Paris is home to 411 towns.
The metropolitan area is home of 1,794 towns.


Paris limites administratives by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 2:24 AM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
There are basically five setups for core cities in the U.S.

Highly Incorporated States: Nearly every (or in some cases every) bit of land not in a city is incorporated within a town. This makes expansion of cities pretty nearly impossible, as towns will only merge with cities if the population of the town votes in favor, which never happens any longer. This is the primary reason why if you look at a map of any of the New England states, all of the cities (except for Boston and maybe Providence) are about the same size in land area as towns. New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania suffer from this to a lesser extent. The good side of this is you end up with "sensible" boundaries, but it leads to a high level of municipal fragmentation.

Landlocked: This is a common configuration in older (read Rust Belt) areas of the Midwest, where the old survey township system was technically unincorporated, but in practice in the late 19th/early 20th century, more and more surrounding communities independently incorporated until a city was surrounded by "suburban cities" - which could not be merged in without the expressed support of the local population.

Sprawled: In a lot of areas with unincorporated county land, a core city is allowed to annex property as long as the owner okays it, with no local vote allowed. This leads to really weird "patchwork" expansion of cities, which often offer access to municipal services like water to help foster new development. These cities end up with often crazy borders, with lots of tiny enclaves of "non-city" relatively deep inside, and weird tentacles extending far into undeveloped land. This is common in the Sun Belt, but it can also be seen in newer Midwestern cities (Columbus, Kansas City, Madison, etc).

City-County Merger: A growing move in the modern era in the South/West is to consolidate city and county government. This has taken place in Jacksonville, FL, Louisville, KY, Indianapolis, IN, and Nashville, TN among other places. Somewhat confusingly, in these cases there is often one or more independent suburbs which retain self-government within the city-county. These tend to be cities which look big on paper, but don't feel that large, since most of the land area is comprised of former "suburbs."

Independent Cities: This is a special case where cities are not part of any county. This includes NYC (which technically covers five counties), San Francisco, St. Louis, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New Orleans, and Denver. Oh, and every single city in Virginia. This happened by one of two ways - either through an early and complete consolidation between the city and the county (so that the whole city is urbanized) or through a breakoff of the cities from the counties. Unlike the city-counties mentioned above, they don't tend to "feel smaller" than the topline population suggests.
If L.A. did a city/county merger it would have far more people than NYC. In California, SF is the only city/county. It would save on administrative costs, and eliminate small cities that are often corrupt and don't serve their people well. It would streamline transportation and other planning. I favor a consolidation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 4:11 AM
craigs's Avatar
craigs craigs is online now
Birds Aren't Real!
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
If L.A. did a city/county merger it would have far more people than NYC. In California, SF is the only city/county. It would save on administrative costs, and eliminate small cities that are often corrupt and don't serve their people well. It would streamline transportation and other planning. I favor a consolidation.
With over 4,000 square miles and a population greater than that of 40 US states, Los Angeles County is far too expansive and populous to be the "local municipal government" for its 10 million residents. I do not believe citizens would--or could--be served better than they are right now by a single "city" government responsible for so much land and so many people.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:41 AM
LosAngelesSportsFan's Avatar
LosAngelesSportsFan LosAngelesSportsFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs View Post
With over 4,000 square miles and a population greater than that of 40 US states, Los Angeles County is far too expansive and populous to be the "local municipal government" for its 10 million residents. I do not believe citizens would--or could--be served better than they are right now by a single "city" government responsible for so much land and so many people.
Absolutely agreed. Just look at how much better the smaller cities in LA are run and kept up.. Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, Beverly Hills, Culver City, Santa Monica, West Hollywood, Long Beach to name a few
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 10:56 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Inveterate Angeleno
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
I’d be more ambitious: Los Angeles could be the whole LA County south of San Gabriel Mountains.

It’d be awkward not having New York as the US most populated city, but they could turn Nassau and Westchester counties into boroughs to make things even.

And Chicago should merge with Cook County.
LA is Los Angeles County (similar to how Australia defines its cities). 10 million people in an area that's about 35-40% (1,400-1,600 square miles) of the total land area. That comes out to an average density of 6,000-7,000 people per square mile across an area that's 5 times the size of NYC, but still quite dense and compact for U.S. metro area geography standards (do a side-by-side, scaled comparison of LA County vs. Chicagoland — both similar population size). That's why LA feels "endless" and much closer in size to NYC than Chicago, IMO.

NYC also has geographic oddities with Staten Island included in city limits, but Hudson County belonging to NJ.
__________________
“To tell a story is inescapably to take a moral stance.”

— Jerome Bruner
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 11:22 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Inveterate Angeleno
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs View Post
With over 4,000 square miles and a population greater than that of 40 US states, Los Angeles County is far too expansive and populous to be the "local municipal government" for its 10 million residents. I do not believe citizens would--or could--be served better than they are right now by a single "city" government responsible for so much land and so many people.
You could divide LA County into 4 boroughs:

1) Everything south of the 105 would be one borough
2) Everything east of the 710 and north of 60 (SGV) would be one borough
3) SFV plus Burbank, La Canada, and La Crescenta would be one borough
4) Central LA plus Beverly Hills, West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Culver City, Glendale, Inglewood, Huntington Park, South Gate, Downey, Pico Rivera, Montebello, East LA, etc.

That's pretty balanced socioeconomically and population-wise, and also more in alignment with urban-cultural configurations.
__________________
“To tell a story is inescapably to take a moral stance.”

— Jerome Bruner
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 11:29 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Inveterate Angeleno
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Absolutely agreed. Just look at how much better the smaller cities in LA are run and kept up.. Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, Beverly Hills, Culver City, Santa Monica, West Hollywood, Long Beach to name a few
Those places are also wealthier and/or whiter on average.

There are outliers of course, but generally speaking the separate municipalities are more presentable (cleaner, fewer power lines).

The city of LA has no clue about urban design.
__________________
“To tell a story is inescapably to take a moral stance.”

— Jerome Bruner
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:19 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.