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  #201  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 12:32 AM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
There's no one alive that has been enslaved in the US nor has there been in 150 or so years. How much longer are we truly going to milk this? Another 150 years? The US is a much more diverse society now than it was in the 60's when it was mainly a black-white dichotomy. There are many visible minorities that should be considered. I'm sure my Mexican American stepfather benefited from some sort of affirmative action program when he went off to college.
There are plenty of people alive today that were on the receiving end of legal racial discrimination.
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  #202  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
You just need to look at how enrollment at the top public universities in California changed after affirmative action was banned. Places like Caltech and Berkeley are now roughly 40% Asian, while the Ivies are 20%-25%.
For the record, the California Institute of Technology is private.
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  #203  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:05 AM
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The Ivies have a much higher share of legacies, athletes and non-Americans than the elite publics. So even if the schools all had a common language for academic achievement, the Ivies would probably lean less Asian American.

For example, 18% of Princeton undergrads are recruited athletes. At the University of Michigan, it's less than 3%.

Columbia undergrad is 28% Asian American, but it's also 15% International, and the majority of International students are from Asia, so it's really probably approaching 40%. That's very Asian, unless you're comparing to the UC system.

There's this stereotype that the Ivies have Asian quotas, akin to the (very real) Jewish quotas in the early 20th century. It appears to be nonsense. Despite the large share of white legacies and athletes, the schools are very diverse, and whites are no longer the majority.
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  #204  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
This was a very high consideration topic for us to leave the City - Where would our kids go to High School? I suppose you could roll the dice and hope they test into one of the magnets, but race is also a consideration, and my kids are white. I could shell out $60K per year and send them to Parker or Latin. What I wasn't going to do is send them to the local CPS HS, which is Lakeview HS, which is complete shit, and has basically no sports programming whatsoever. I had to deal with that bull shit as a kid, and went to High School in Rye, NY while growing up in Manhattan.

Say what you want about the suburbs, and wealthy suburbs, but at least the public schools are generally great where virtually all of the parents give a shit about their child's education and success.
Well my wife and I figure that if our daughter (who is currently only 4 months old...so this is quite premature) can't get into one of the magnets, then she probably doesn't need to go to a really good school (on the other hand, it's quite likely she's going to be pretty smart). Due to my job at UChicago, she could go to the UC Lab school for something like 6% of our AGI as long as I'm at UChicago, but the class size is so damn small there and it's most kids of other UChicago people and it would be nice for her to have friends whose parents aren't academics (she's going to have enough of those anyway...). My wife dreamed of going to IMSA when she was a kid (unfortunately she lived in Wisconsin, so couldn't...). Maybe we'll send our daughter there (if she wants to...), though that's only 10-12th grade and it's out in the middle of nowhere.
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  #205  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:20 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Correction, 20% of Columbia undergrads are International, and the only top 10 nations not in Asia are UK, Canada and Brazil (and UK and esp. Canada would likely have a good share of students of Asian descent).

And CA is easily the #2 undergrad state, not far behind NY, which would obviously suggest a large potential Asian population. The top three states, NY, CA and NJ, all have large Asian high school populations.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The Ivies have a much higher share of legacies, athletes and non-Americans than the elite publics. So even if the schools all had a common language for academic achievement, the Ivies would probably lean less Asian American.

For example, 18% of Princeton undergrads are recruited athletes. At the University of Michigan, it's less than 3%.

Columbia undergrad is 28% Asian American, but it's also 15% International, and the majority of International students are from Asia, so it's really probably approaching 40%.

There's this stereotype that the Ivies have Asian quotas, akin to the (very real) Jewish quotas in the early 20th century. It appears to be nonsense.
Are the majority of international undergradute students at Columbia Asian? That will be true at a place like Illinois, and also for graduate programs, but at Stanford (which has some of the best name recognition in East Asia...), I don't think the majority of the undergrad international population was Asian (My anectodal observation was that Europeans + Middle East international students were more common, though there were of course a fair number of Chinese, Korean, Indian and Singaporean students---oddly not that many Japanese...) This is partially because at least when I was there, there was no financial aid for international students.

Looking at top 10 nations is misleading, since there are a few large countries in Asia that will account for nearly all the Asian population, but the top 10 nations may not include the majority of international students.

(I agree with your general point though....)
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  #207  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Are the majority of international undergradute students at Columbia Asian? That will be true at a place like Illinois, and also for graduate programs, but at Stanford (which has some of the best name recognition in East Asia...), I don't think the majority of the undergrad international population was Asian (My anectodal observation was that Europeans + Middle East international students were more common, though there were of course a fair number of Chinese, Korean, Indian and Singaporean students---oddly not that many Japanese...) This is partially because at least when I was there, there was no financial aid for international students.

Looking at top 10 nations is misleading, since there are a few large countries in Asia that will account for nearly all the Asian population, but the top 10 nations may not include the majority of international students.
I could probably find counts somewhere. I'm pretty sure, at Columbia at least, students from Asia comprise a large share of the international student body. I'd be pretty surprised if it weren't a solid majority.

Yeah, international students don't generally get any aid, which is why schools like them. But there are obviously lots of affluent households in Asia, so I'm not sure why that would be a barrier relative to Europe or Latin America.

Without looking it up, I assume Stanford's demographics are closer to the Ivies than to the elite publics. Probably also a large share of legacies and recruited athletes.
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  #208  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I could probably find counts somewhere. I'm pretty sure, at Columbia at least, students from Asia comprise a large share of the international student body. I'd be pretty surprised if it weren't a solid majority.

Yeah, international students don't generally get any aid, which is why schools like them. But there are obviously lots of affluent households in Asia, so I'm not sure why that would be a barrier relative to Europe or Latin America.
Many European international students actually had full scholarships from their home countries, somehow (this seemed especially true for Scandinavians).
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  #209  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 4:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I could probably find counts somewhere. I'm pretty sure, at Columbia at least, students from Asia comprise a large share of the international student body. I'd be pretty surprised if it weren't a solid majority.

Yeah, international students don't generally get any aid, which is why schools like them. But there are obviously lots of affluent households in Asia, so I'm not sure why that would be a barrier relative to Europe or Latin America.

Without looking it up, I assume Stanford's demographics are closer to the Ivies than to the elite publics. Probably also a large share of legacies and recruited athletes.

Well, it's possible Columbia internationals skew more Asian than Stanford, but that would be a bit surprising to me.

Here are the top 10 countries for Stanford international undergrads in 2020, but keep in mind that only about half of the international students are accounted for in this pie (the total was 673, apparently; this is an idiotic graphic that shows percentages of the students originating from the top ten percent, but it's dumb. Really only 90/673=13% of undergrad internationals are from China, a number that passes the smell test based on my experience). I suspect outside the top ten skews more European/Middle Eastern than Asian.



And yes, there are a lot of recruited athletes and legacies (actually the two are often the same... I mean, who plays squash or lacrosse outside of prep school kids?). But Stanford fields an FBS football team, so the demographics of Stanford athletes probably differ from Ivy League just because of that.
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  #210  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 5:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Without looking it up, I assume Stanford's demographics are closer to the Ivies than to the elite publics. Probably also a large share of legacies and recruited athletes.
From wikipedia, as of May 2, 2022:

Stanford:
White - 29%
Asian - 25%
Hispanic -17%
Foreign national - 11%
Other (multiracial and decline to state) - 10%
Black - 7%
Native American - 1%

UCLA:
Asian - 29%
White - 26%
Hispanic - 22%
Foreign national - 10%
Other (multiracial and decline to state) - 9%
Black - 3%
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  #211  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 6:26 PM
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I'm surprised their international percentages are so low. The University of Washington Seattle was more than 17% in 2019. Very Chinese dominated. Here's the latest breakout. https://tableau.washington.edu/views...showVizHome=no
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  #212  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 8:01 PM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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Here's UT Austin. Asian enrollment is very high, especially compared to ethnic makeup of the state. Asian population in the state is around 5%.

Ethnicity/Race

American Indian or Alaskan Native: 0.1%
Asian: 20.6%
Black: 5.2%
Hispanic: 24.2%
International: 9.1%
Multiracial (excl. Black or Hispanic): 2.7%
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander: 0.1%
Unknown or Blank: 1.3%
White: 36.7%
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  #213  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
I'm surprised their international percentages are so low. The University of Washington Seattle was more than 17% in 2019. Very Chinese dominated.
Regarding the University of California's student body in 2022 specifically, pandemic restrictions significantly reduced the number of foreign students, especially from China, and more significantly, UC admissions policy has changed.

Because non-residents pay full tuition and bring in more revenue, UC admitted lots of them (pre-pandemic). However, that led to a public backlash by state taxpayers when admissions rates fell to the point that a lot of qualified residents don't make the cut. That led to a deal: in exchange for lowering the proportion of non-resident admits, the Newsom administration would significantly boost state funding for the University of California.
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  #214  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
There's no one alive that has been enslaved in the US nor has there been in 150 or so years. How much longer are we truly going to milk this? Another 150 years? The US is a much more diverse society now than it was in the 60's when it was mainly a black-white dichotomy. There are many visible minorities that should be considered. I'm sure my Mexican American stepfather benefited from some sort of affirmative action program when he went off to college.
You’re a mod here? Wow.
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  #215  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2022, 5:51 PM
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I guess it fits here. Bloomberg:

Home Sellers Are Slashing Prices in Pandemic Boomtowns

After two years and half, I still love to see things going back to normal. No "new normal".
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  #216  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2022, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
I guess it fits here. Bloomberg:

Home Sellers Are Slashing Prices in Pandemic Boomtowns

After two years and half, I still love to see things going back to normal. No "new normal".
I am not able to read this at the moment but I am going to say that this is still a new normal because a reduction in astronomically high home prices but are still much higher than they should be is not a true return to normal.
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  #217  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2022, 5:32 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
I guess it fits here. Bloomberg:

Home Sellers Are Slashing Prices in Pandemic Boomtowns

After two years and half, I still love to see things going back to normal. No "new normal".
These markets were booming before covid, highest mortgage rates in 20 years it was intended and expected to reduce home prices and sales.

This has nothing to do with covid and everything to do with federal policy and low interest economic environment for decades.
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  #218  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2022, 6:38 PM
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There's no single factor. Covid is without question part of it.
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