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  #41  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2022, 6:10 PM
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Homelessness is intractable. Its something to manage like a chronic disease, not solve. Some ppl will always fall thru the cracks. The crux is the managers. Liberal policy makers fundamentally think ppl are good, and the systems are corrupt, and therefore must change. Conservatives believe the opposite, that people are inherently flawed, but accept the flaws and realize for every improvement made, it still comes with a price, and we must accept a trade off. Americans in general have this insane reaction to the homeless tho. People in small towns think its a result of big city failures and people in the big city feel sorry for hobos and sometimes don't know how to be the tough parent.
Impossible to be definitely solved, and incredibly hard to be managed.

For instance, Downtown São Paulo is plagued by theft of cables as junks/criminals trade the copper for drugs. Traffic lights/street lighting repairs happen at real time in the region.

Another major problem now is the theft of cell phones, again drug traffic related. They pass pretending to be bikers on the local bike lanes and take it away from unsuspected victims. Last year, 156,000 cell phones (!!!) were stolen in the city of São Paulo alone.
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  #42  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2022, 10:54 PM
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Chapecó - a 220,000 inh. city in Brazil - adopts involuntarian hospitalization for drug addicted homeless

Apparently, there are provisions on legislation to allow it. As it's a rather wealthy and right wing southern Brazilian city, homeless population is very small to begin with.

According to the article, the mayor has been very vocal about it, and even posting social workers action in his social media accounts.
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  #43  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 12:24 AM
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The past three weeks have been busy concerned São Paulo homelessness/drug addiction problem. Even BBC took a notice:

Dying of cold on the streets of São Paulo

Brazilian autumn arrived and the biggest cold wave of the year reached São Paulo and one homeless man died, probably due exposure.

What was the major news though it was an operation involving 600 agents that would end the 3 decade old Cracolândia. Well, it simply moved away but to a populated residential street nearby. Pure chaos: dwellers trapped in their apartments and the street completely taken by 500-1,000 addicts and drug dealers, in a real zombie apocalypse scene.


Folha de São Paulo

Police was only observed, made a smaller operation, but they're just moving from one street to another, making population of the whole area uneasy and it might even threat the ressurgence of the whole Downtown area.

Sadly, it seems there's no way out of it.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 3:11 AM
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^ color me ignorant, but I had no idea that the temps in Sao Paulo ever got cold enough to literally kill people.

Being from Chicago, that is a sad reality here, but I always assumed that Sao Paulo enjoyed a warm sub-tropical climate.
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  #45  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 3:52 AM
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^ color me ignorant, but I had no idea that the temps in Sao Paulo ever got cold enough to literally kill people.

Being from Chicago, that is a sad reality here, but I always assumed that Sao Paulo enjoyed a warm sub-tropical climate.
Wikipedia is a good source for climate data. It isn't what I would call tropical year round there, but on average not very cold. However, cold waves (relatively speaking) do hit there, and record lows have been in the 30s. Hypothermia can kill a person at temperatures warmer than the 30s, depending on exposure and clothing.

One thing about climate data is that averages can be so misleading, since averages are composed of both colder and warmer than average temperatures. In a way, I wish climate data always included not only averages, but standard deviations so as to give an idea of variation from averages. Then again, most people don't understand what a standard deviation is. Oh well...
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  #46  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 4:29 AM
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A temporary solution to homelessness is for the government to provide land for urban campgrounds The campgrounds would have small individual lots where the homeless could set up tents, or tents could be provided, or they could park their vehicles. Pets would be allowed. A facility where food is served could be provided. Showers and bathroons. There would be security. There would be social workers to help the people find assistance.. In cities with cold winters, tiny housing units with heat. Sort of like the good campground in the film "Grapes of Wrath" where the Joads stayed, with a kind campground supervisor. The homeless would be required to spend time on cleanup detail to keep the camp clean. A small amount of cash would be paid to them.
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  #47  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 4:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
The past three weeks have been busy concerned São Paulo homelessness/drug addiction problem. Even BBC took a notice:

Dying of cold on the streets of São Paulo

Brazilian autumn arrived and the biggest cold wave of the year reached São Paulo and one homeless man died, probably due exposure.

What was the major news though it was an operation involving 600 agents that would end the 3 decade old Cracolândia. Well, it simply moved away but to a populated residential street nearby. Pure chaos: dwellers trapped in their apartments and the street completely taken by 500-1,000 addicts and drug dealers, in a real zombie apocalypse scene.


Folha de São Paulo

Police was only observed, made a smaller operation, but they're just moving from one street to another, making population of the whole area uneasy and it might even threat the ressurgence of the whole Downtown area.

Sadly, it seems there's no way out of it.
I went backpacking in SP back in 2013. BTW ... AMAZING city but I did walk through Cracolandia and it was eye opening. Not scary just eye opening. Like being at a drug addict zoo.

The only time I felt intimidated in SP, however, was on a Sunday morning stroll kind of between Consolacao and Bela Vista. I walked down the middle of the street for a while because the addicts were honestly a little too intimidating.

Made it to Republica and had some pizza in a luncheonette. Life was ok again.

Still. Love SP.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ color me ignorant, but I had no idea that the temps in Sao Paulo ever got cold enough to literally kill people.

Being from Chicago, that is a sad reality here, but I always assumed that Sao Paulo enjoyed a warm sub-tropical climate.
The coldest day of this cold wave got a min of 5C and a max of 12C (41F / 53F).

I really don't know whether that's cold enough to kill a person, but many living on streets might have other health conditions. São Paulo has a very comprehensive network of shelters, but every year some people die of exposure as many prefer to remain on streets. Blanket and clothes donations are also very common in all cities in Central-South Brazil when the Winter comes.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
A temporary solution to homelessness is for the government to provide land for urban campgrounds The campgrounds would have small individual lots where the homeless could set up tents, or tents could be provided, or they could park their vehicles. Pets would be allowed. A facility where food is served could be provided. Showers and bathroons. There would be security. There would be social workers to help the people find assistance.. In cities with cold winters, tiny housing units with heat. Sort of like the good campground in the film "Grapes of Wrath" where the Joads stayed, with a kind campground supervisor. The homeless would be required to spend time on cleanup detail to keep the camp clean. A small amount of cash would be paid to them.
That's an interesting approach. It might work. Despite density, there are plenty of parking lots in Downtown São Paulo plus some former industrial sites. Maybe smaller camps scattered all over the region could help.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 12:46 PM
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I went backpacking in SP back in 2013. BTW ... AMAZING city but I did walk through Cracolandia and it was eye opening. Not scary just eye opening. Like being at a drug addict zoo.

The only time I felt intimidated in SP, however, was on a Sunday morning stroll kind of between Consolacao and Bela Vista. I walked down the middle of the street for a while because the addicts were honestly a little too intimidating.

Made it to Republica and had some pizza in a luncheonette. Life was ok again.

Still. Love SP.
That's brave. Only people from Catholic Church charities (the Father mentioned on BBC) and some NGOs got there.

São Paulo Downtown area improved a lot since 2013. Bela Vista and Consolação were already under transformation back then but since 2018 or so it reached República as well, that became the coolest place to be. Full of creative nightclubs, bars, restaurants, art galleries.

However, on the past 6 months or so, I wave of cell phone robbery is making people very unsettling. Pedestrian traffic at night decreased a bit. It's a real shame. Police is acting, let's see if that will work.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 1:53 PM
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Wikipedia is a good source for climate data. It isn't what I would call tropical year round there, but on average not very cold. However, cold waves (relatively speaking) do hit there, and record lows have been in the 30s. Hypothermia can kill a person at temperatures warmer than the 30s, depending on exposure and clothing.

One thing about climate data is that averages can be so misleading, since averages are composed of both colder and warmer than average temperatures. In a way, I wish climate data always included not only averages, but standard deviations so as to give an idea of variation from averages. Then again, most people don't understand what a standard deviation is. Oh well...
"Average high" and "average low" for a given day kinda serve that purpose acceptably well, when combined with the record high and record low.
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  #52  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
Homelessness is intractable. Its something to manage like a chronic disease, not solve. Some ppl will always fall thru the cracks. The crux is the managers. Liberal policy makers fundamentally think ppl are good, and the systems are corrupt, and therefore must change. Conservatives believe the opposite, that people are inherently flawed, but accept the flaws and realize for every improvement made, it still comes with a price, and we must accept a trade off. Americans in general have this insane reaction to the homeless tho. People in small towns think its a result of big city failures and people in the big city feel sorry for hobos and sometimes don't know how to be the tough parent.
The problem is that well-off people in the U.S. are increasingly judging one-another based on how they speak of the homeless and other social and cultural problems.

Everyone has a nice apartment or house. Everyone has heat and air conditioning. Everyone has a car or several of them. Everyone can afford to take several expensive trips per year. Everyone has new clothes. People's jobs are pretty easy - you pretty much just sit in meetings and type a few emails or create a report or two.

So if everyone has everything that money can buy, and it all comes without having to do any hard and dangerous physical work, how do we rank each other?

That's right - put on an elaborate performance where we use all of the right language and post the right signage or flag in our yard. Even if that new language and those signs don't accomplish a damn thing toward their stated end - and they don't - we get to stand a head above our peers, since we care more and we're going to tell and show you that we care more.
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  #53  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 6:15 PM
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Is there a big difference between cities in regarding homelessness? Apart from the obvious weather-reasons?

Is there a place where drug-addiction among homeless is lower than expected?

I read that a huge majority of the NYC homeless pop lives in shelters. "Only" around 1000 or so live on the streets in tents, parks etc.

Is it different in LA or San Fran? Im intrested in knowing the segmentation in other cities and countries as well.

And if there are different ways of counting homeless?

I know in my city they count people living temporarily on sofas etc as homeless. Only 10% or so of the homeless population sleep outside or in shelters.
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  #54  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ilcapo View Post
Is there a big difference between cities in regarding homelessness? Apart from the obvious weather-reasons?

Is there a place where drug-addiction among homeless is lower than expected?

I read that a huge majority of the NYC homeless pop lives in shelters. "Only" around 1000 or so live on the streets in tents, parks etc.

Is it different in LA or San Fran? Im intrested in knowing the segmentation in other cities and countries as well.

And if there are different ways of counting homeless?

I know in my city they count people living temporarily on sofas etc as homeless. Only 10% or so of the homeless population sleep outside or in shelters.
Regarding São Paulo, the municipality carries a homeless census every year and numbers skyrocketed from 11,000 in 2012 to 35,000 in 2021.

Down here, half of them live Downtown and usually go to shelters only when it's cold. The last census showed a noticeable increase on people that are living on streets due economic factors whereas till the recent past was mostly drug/alcohol abuse and/or mental disorders.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 7:16 PM
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The coldest day of this cold wave got a min of 5C and a max of 12C (41F / 53F).

I really don't know whether that's cold enough to kill a person, but many living on streets might have other health conditions. São Paulo has a very comprehensive network of shelters, but every year some people die of exposure as many prefer to remain on streets. Blanket and clothes donations are also very common in all cities in Central-South Brazil when the Winter comes.
yeah, it sounds like the cold by itself didn't kill anyone.

the cold that kills homeless people in chicago every winter is the truly cold dead of winter stuff, when temps can dip down below 0 F (-18 C) on the coldest nights.

40 degrees isn't likely to kill anyone unless they're passed out naked on a cold concrete sidewalk or something like that. lord knows i've camped out plenty of times in temps far colder than that with just a sleeping bag to keep me alive.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 23, 2022 at 7:53 PM.
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  #56  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 7:48 PM
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yeah, it sounds like the cold by itself didn't kill anyone.

the cold that kills homeless people in chicago every winter is the truly cold dead of winter stuff, when temps can dip down below 0 F (-18 C) on the coldest nights.

40 degrees isn't likely to kill anyone unless they're passed out naked on a cold concrete sidewalk or something liek that. lord know i've camped out plenty of times in temps far colder than that with just a sleeping bag to keep me alive.
Winter in southern parts of Brazil can be very uncomfortable as there are no central heating and houses are not insulated.

One day before the cold wave arrived, I closed every window and kept them that way. First day, 6C/42F outside and 20C/68F inside. Four days later, 10C/50F outside, 13C/55F inside. It's very annoying, specially as you are not moving inside whereas outside at least you are walking, getting some sun when it's not cloudy.
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  #57  
Old Posted May 29, 2022, 6:07 AM
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A phenomenon that has been going on as of late. The "working homeless"

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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2022, 6:35 PM
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How COVID Has Changed Homelessness in Texas

Pandemic relief funds have provided a “once-in-a-generation opportunity” for homeless support programs. But when the money dries up, can the progress hold?

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-po...-covid-relief/

For a long time, Evelyn Reinholt shared a home with her boyfriend in the Hill Country town of Comfort, 45 miles northwest of San Antonio. She worked at a drug treatment center in the town. But the job required her to be on her feet, and last year she developed a physical disability—she still doesn’t know quite what it is—that causes her to fall down if she stands or walks for more than a few seconds. She was stuck at home, living with a man who she says was struggling with opioid addiction, and she began to feel unsafe. “We were good for about ten years,” she says, but by late last year, “I had to get away.”

Reinholt called her sister in San Antonio, who took her in. Then, after a few months, she says, her sister asked her to move out and took her to the city’s Haven for Hope shelter. “I was mad at my sister at first for dropping me off there,” says Reinholt, who is 55. But looking back, she says, it’s “the best thing she could’ve done for me.” Early in the pandemic, to help avoid a COVID outbreak, the 1,700-person-capacity shelter expanded to add a converted hotel nearby. Reinholt got her own room there, where she stayed a few months before she was connected with a case manager from the interfaith group SAMMinistries. The case manager found her an apartment in a big complex on the city’s North Side and helped her secure an emergency housing voucher to cover her rent.

The hotel room where she spent three months, the emergency housing voucher that covers her rent, and her “rapid re-housing” case management from SAMMinistries all have something in common: they were paid for by programs supported by federal COVID relief. In the massive pandemic relief bills passed in March of 2020 and 2021, Congress allocated billions for rental assistance and new housing. Texas received hundreds of millions, which local governments have used to pay for rental vouchers, construction, and renovation of homes for those who’ve been living on the streets, along with staff to support residents with counseling and treatment they need. The outlook for housing advocates was bleaker just a couple of years ago, when national trends showed homelessness on the rise and no major funding increases in sight.

The pandemic has provided a moment of growth for housing nonprofits. Mutual aid and grassroots groups have activated to help unhoused Texans, particularly undocumented folks who can’t access government relief. Meanwhile, for the large nonprofits working in this space, the last two years have created an opening to do things they never thought possible.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 4:27 AM
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How Houston Moved 25,000 People From the Streets Into Homes of Their Own

The nation’s fourth-largest city hasn’t solved homelessness, but its remarkable progress can suggest a way forward.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/h...e=articleShare

One steamy morning last July, Ana Rausch commandeered a shady corner of a parking lot on the northwest side of Houston. Downing a jumbo iced coffee, she issued brisk orders to a dozen outreach workers toting iPads. Her attention was fixed on a highway underpass nearby, where a handful of people were living in tents and cardboard lean-tos. As a vice president of Houston’s Coalition for the Homeless, Ms. Rausch was there to move them out.

I had come to watch the process and, more broadly, to see Houston’s approach to homelessness, which has won a lot of praise. At first, I couldn’t figure out why this particular underpass had been colonized. The sound of trucks revving their engines ricocheted against the concrete walls like rifle shots; and most of Houston’s homeless services were miles away. But then Ms. Rausch’s team, and a few camp residents, pointed out the nearby fast food outlets, the Shell station with a convenience store, and the Planet Fitness, where a $10 monthly membership meant access to showers and outlets for charging phones.
It also wasn’t initially visible what distinguished this encampment clearance from the ones in cities like Los Angeles and Austin, where the number of homeless people has been skyrocketing along with frustrations. The difference couldn’t be seen because it had already happened. For more than a month, Ms. Rausch and her colleagues had been coordinating with Harris County officials, as well as with the mayor’s office and local landlords. They had visited the encampment and talked to people living there, so that now, as tents were being dismantled, the occupants could move directly into one-bedroom apartments, some for a year, others for longer. In other words, the people living in the encampment would not be consigned to homeless shelters, cited for trespassing or scattered to the winds, but, rather, given a home.

During the last decade, Houston, the nation’s fourth most populous city, has moved more than 25,000 homeless people directly into apartments and houses. The overwhelming majority of them have remained housed after two years. The number of people deemed homeless in the Houston region has been cut by 63 percent since 2011, according to the latest numbers from local officials. Even judging by the more modest metrics registered in a 2020 federal report, Houston did more than twice as well as the rest of the country at reducing homelessness over the previous decade. Ten years ago, homeless veterans, one of the categories that the federal government tracks, waited 720 days and had to navigate 76 bureaucratic steps to get from the street into permanent housing with support from social service counselors. Today, a streamlined process means the wait for housing is 32 days.

Houston has gotten this far by teaming with county agencies and persuading scores of local service providers, corporations and charitable nonprofits — organizations that often bicker and compete with one another — to row in unison. Together, they’ve gone all in on “housing first,” a practice, supported by decades of research, that moves the most vulnerable people straight from the streets into apartments, not into shelters, and without first requiring them to wean themselves off drugs or complete a 12-step program or find God or a job.

There are addiction recovery and religious conversion programs that succeed in getting people off the street. But housing first involves a different logic: When you’re drowning, it doesn’t help if your rescuer insists you learn to swim before returning you to shore. You can address your issues once you’re on land. Or not. Either way, you join the wider population of people battling demons behind closed doors.
“Before I leave office, I want Houston to be the first big city to end chronic homelessness,” Sylvester Turner told me. In late January, Mr. Turner, who is serving his final term as mayor, joined Harris County leaders in unveiling a $100 million plan that would use a mix of federal, state, county and city funds to cut the local homeless count in half again by 2025.
Mr. Turner chose his words with care, and it’s important to parse his phrasing. “Chronic homelessness” is a term of art. It refers to those people, like many in the Houston encampment, who have been living on the streets for more than a year or who have been homeless repeatedly, and who have a mental or physical disability. Nationwide, most of those who experience homelessness do not fall into that narrow category. They are homeless for six weeks or fewer; 40 percent have a job. For them, homelessness is an agonizing but temporary condition that they manage to resolve, maybe by doubling up with relatives or friends.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:47 AM
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London kind of 'solved' its homeless problem -in the 80's it was catastrophic with tent cities at Waterloo, no go zones in Kings X, and 1/8 of the city derelict, thanks to no-holds Thatcherism that devastated the working classes.

However after decades of Labour, and a left wing Ken Livingstone it largely disappeared in the noughties - although the homeless population was still in the tens of throusands, they were housed in temporary accommodation - public houses, hostels, hotels (no longer dorms), drug centres opened up (both dealing the drugs safely as well as running clinics and detox/ withdrawal centres) and there was a zero tolerance for street begging or sleeping.

This policy was considered 'the hand up, not the handout'.

However, after the financial crisis of 08 and Boris Johnson's tenure as Conservative mayor homelessness returned -nowhere near 1980s levels but a few examples noticeable again. Following the pandemic years, beggars are increasing also. Today the population is about 700 in terms of rough sleepers - double what it was in 2010, but one third 1980s levels.

I think all-in-all the situation is not as dire as there is more of a social safety net in Europe - joblessness benefit (with terms), child benefit, mental health infrastructure etc that ensures people don't stay like that for long, and don't fall so much into the path of drinking to keep warm and weather the life > drugs > addiction. No one shits on the street, shoots up in public, is missing meds or lasts long in a life of petty crime before ending up in the clanger (and enforced withdrawal).
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