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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2021, 7:56 PM
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The first US News ranking was based on a survey of university and college presidents. Here was the result of the first:

US News and World Report, 1983 Best Colleges Ranking
1 Stanford
2 Harvard
3 Yale
4 Princeton
5 UC Berkeley
6 U of Chicago
7 Michigan, Ann Arbor
8-tied Cornell
8-tied Illinois
10-tied Dartmouth
10-tied MIT
12 Cal Tech
13-tied Carnegie-Mellon
13-tied Wisconsin, Madison
15-tied Brown
15-tied Columbia
15-tied Indiana U.
15-tied-North Carolina, Chapel Hill
15-tied Rice

In 1988, US News published a top-25 list for the first time. It was again based simply on a survey of 1329 college presidents who chose the ten best colleges in their same Carnegie classification. There was a 60% response rate in 1988. In 1983 the response rate was 50%.

US News and World Report, Top 25 Universities, 1988
1 Stanford
2 Harvard
3 Yale
4 Princeton
5 UC Berkeley
6 Dartmouth
7 Duke
8 U of Chicago
9 Michigan, Ann Arbor
10 Brown
11 Cornell
12 MIT
13 North Carolina, Chapel Hill
14 Rice
15 Virginia
16 Johns Hopkins
17 Northwestern
18 Columbia
19 Pennsylvania
20 Illinois
21 Cal Tech
22 William and Mary
23-tied Wisconsin
23-tied Washington U St Louis
25-tied Emory
25-tied Texas

What happened?

In the beginning, US News' ranking was determined by a survey sent out to university presidents and they ranked the schools and then US News simply combined all those surveys and came up with the result.

Its amazing to see how highly thought of the elite public schools in the US are by college presidents.

Well, at the behest of Ivy League officials put out of sorts over the fact that so many public schools ranked so highly, US News changed the criteria and gave more weight to alumni giving rates, faculty-per-student ratio and per pupil spending and other things that would heavily sway the findings in favor of private schools.

That effectively and henceforth has shut out all public schools from the top 20.

Otherwise, Berkeley would still be 5th or so. And its easy to see how wrong the Undergrad ranking is just by looking at the Grad School rankings, where publics do STELLAR.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by craigs View Post
Rice is there, it's #128.

Here's USNWR's rubric:

RANKING INDICATOR - WEIGHT
Global research reputation - 12.5%
Regional research reputation - 12.5%
Publications - 10%
Books - 2.5%
Conferences - 2.5%
Normalized citation impact - 10%
Total citations - 7.5%
Number of publications that are among the 10% most cited - 12.5%
Percentage of total publications that are among the 10% most cited - 10%
International collaboration – relative to country - 5%
International collaboration - 5%
Number of highly cited papers that are among the top 1% most cited in their respective field - 5%
Percentage of total publications that are among the top 1% most highly cited papers - 5%
What, football team rank isn't condidered?
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 1:29 PM
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As an Academic at a Research-intensive university, I participate in numerous such rankings every year. While the criteria are usually valid, the ratings necessarily rely on subjective recall (you simply cannot rate/rank thousands of universities worldwide: nobody would have the time and it would not produce a more 'objective' ranking). It is basically a brand recall exercise. Yes, we as academics do "know" where the best research is coming from (I am an Editor for a Journal, so I see this information, whereas blind reviewers do not), but while you are more apt to notice up-and-coming schools, the ones at the top are kept in place by inertia, as well as by the fact that they will undoubtedly churn out a high volume of high quality research. In other words, there is a certain 'stickiness' when you are near the top, due to brand recognition.

And as others have mentioned, less weight is given to teaching excellence, which, at the Undergraduate level, will be better typically at liberal arts colleges (graduate level degree programs usually but not always being better at the research-intensive universities).
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 6:36 PM
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Amazing that of the ivies, Brown didnt make the top 100 and Dartmouth didnt make the top 200

As for my school, University of the Pacific, it didnt make the list
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jbermingham123 View Post
Amazing that of the ivies, Brown didnt make the top 100 and Dartmouth didnt make the top 200
Again, global USNWR list has zero significance in U.S. The global list, at least for American schools, is nonsense.

Dartmouth is ranked #13, Brown is ranked #14. Both sound about right, IMO.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 6:58 PM
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Again, global USNWR list has zero significance in U.S. The global list, at least for American schools, is nonsense.

Dartmouth is ranked #13, Brown is ranked #14. Both sound about right, IMO.
ahh yep i just found the national list

my school is 136th... 38th not counting ties
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You guys are laughing now but Jacksonville will soon assume its rightful place as the largest and most important city on Earth.

I heard the UN is moving its HQ there. The eiffel tower is moving there soon as well. Elon Musk even decided he didnt want to go to mars anymore after visiting.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 9:28 PM
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Again, global USNWR list has zero significance in U.S. The global list, at least for American schools, is nonsense.
Nope, these 2 rankings are just based on different sets of criteria, and the findings reflect that.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 9:47 PM
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As someone who went to two big ten schools on this list, and grad school at a top-tier public university (Michigan), I can say that I don't think any of my employers ever gave a flying dog shit about from what university I got my degree. It may help some people get in the door in other industries, but in planning so long as you can actually check the box that says "graduate degree in planning" it was otherwise 100% about what I knew from on-the-job training and experience, and was able to prove it, along with established relationships through internships. I have never ONCE been asked for a transcript, even though I have offered to provide it.

To top it off, by far the best education I have ever received was from the community college I attended when I was trying to decide in what field I would ultimately study.

If I wasn't on track to have my six figures in student loans forgiven in about 6 months, I might actually be mad about it.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
As someone who went to two big ten schools on this list, and grad school at a top-tier public university (Michigan), I can say that I don't think any of my employers ever gave a flying dog shit about from what university I got my degree. It may help some people get in the door in other industries, but in planning so long as you can actually check the box that says "graduate degree in planning" it was otherwise 100% about what I knew from on-the-job training and experience, and was able to prove it, along with established relationships through internships. I have never ONCE been asked for a transcript, even though I have offered to provide it.
That usually comes in the background check. I know for a fact that my employers have verified my educational details, even though I've never provided a transcript either.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 10:12 PM
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That usually comes in the background check. I know for a fact that my employers have verified my educational details, even though I've never provided a transcript either.
Our company verifies and double verifies every inch of a resume.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 10:18 PM
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Our company verifies and double verifies every inch of a resume.
Literally how? I have been hired to multiple positions with not a one of my references checked. I know because I've asked them.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 10:38 PM
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Especially in a labor shortage, I might add.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 10:46 PM
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I had to chuckle when I saw Princeton and Yale put in the NYC column, I can't think of anyone who would consider those two to be "New York" institutions. Princeton is a small college town on the periphery of the metro area, and Yale is in New Haven, which is nearly as far from NYC as Philadelphia (yes, I know it's in the csa).

So as flattering as it may be and despite all the junior investment bankers they feed into the city, those two should be under their own municipalities imho.
This.

Princeton and Yale are not New York Universities.

New York actually punches far below it's weight when it comes to higher education...I'm not even sure what Columbia is known for, other than being an Ivy. Is it particularly strong in any discipline? If it weren't in NYC it's MBA program would be garbage on its own merits.

And Mt Sinai and Rockefeller? Lol. I had to google it. Rockefeller has 250 students. Get out of here with that BS.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 11:15 PM
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Especially in a labor shortage, I might add.
There will never be a shortage of people asking for capital to finance their new company.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 12:22 AM
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This.

Princeton and Yale are not New York Universities.
Princeton is absolutely a New York area school.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 12:34 AM
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Nope, these 2 rankings are just based on different sets of criteria, and the findings reflect that.
Right, but only one set of criteria matters. Colleges, parents, students, care about one list.

And if you wish to rank U.S. universities, you'd use the U.S. ranking, not the non-U.S. ranking.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
This.
New York actually punches far below it's weight when it comes to higher education...I'm not even sure what Columbia is known for, other than being an Ivy. Is it particularly strong in any discipline? If it weren't in NYC it's MBA program would be garbage on its own merits.
This is dumb.

Columbia is ranked #2 in the U.S. It also has the second lowest acceptance rate in the U.S. Columbia is highly ranked in practically every discipline.

Three of the top five universities in the U.S. are in the NY metro, BTW.

And what does "it would be garbage if it weren't located in NYC" mean? That's kinda the point. Harvard would be garbage if it were in Botswana. Why do you think Oxbridge were the most prestigious global universities until the 1930's? Gee, I wonder what changed, and why all the U.S. universities took over.
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And Mt Sinai and Rockefeller? Lol. I had to google it. Rockefeller has 250 students. Get out of here with that BS.
These aren't on the list. They're graduate schools only, so have no relevance to the USNWR list, which only considers undergraduate programs.

Also, ignorance of a university has nothing to do whether a university is good, obviously. University of Chicago isn't less prestigious than University of Alabama just bc the latter is better known among the general public.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 1:59 AM
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Los Angeles

California Institute of Technology (#7)
University of California, Irvine (#78)
University of California, Los Angeles (#13)
University of Southern California (#70)
Any list that has that football school AKA the University of Spoiled Children ahead of any UC campus has to be bogus.
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 2:02 AM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
As someone who went to two big ten schools on this list, and grad school at a top-tier public university (Michigan), I can say that I don't think any of my employers ever gave a flying dog shit about from what university I got my degree. It may help some people get in the door in other industries, but in planning so long as you can actually check the box that says "graduate degree in planning" it was otherwise 100% about what I knew from on-the-job training and experience, and was able to prove it, along with established relationships through internships. I have never ONCE been asked for a transcript, even though I have offered to provide it.

To top it off, by far the best education I have ever received was from the community college I attended when I was trying to decide in what field I would ultimately study.

If I wasn't on track to have my six figures in student loans forgiven in about 6 months, I might actually be mad about it.
Degree specifics matter a lot more in certain fields / industries. And while you may have never been directly asked to provide details, I'm willing to bet those details were checked without your knowledge. Especially for roles above a certain level. Director-level and up hires at companies I work for have rigorous background checks done by a third party who specialize in doing just that. This includes degree details verification.

More broadly speaking, don't discount the alumni network effect, which is real at all position levels, not just entry roles / getting a foot in the door. I've made hiring choices based on schools, both for entry positions and for account directors. In my case, I used schools as a tie-breaker for otherwise more or less identical candidates.

And I definitely gave preference to the school I graduated from in these cases.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 2:58 AM
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Right, but only one set of criteria matters. Colleges, parents, students, care about one list.

And if you wish to rank U.S. universities, you'd use the U.S. ranking, not the non-U.S. ranking.
Well, that also depends on what level of education a person is at. The global ranking emphasizes research, citations, peer review, reputation etc. A person graduating from high school most likely isnt focused on that, but a grad student definitely would be interested in more than class ratios and the like.
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