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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2018, 6:44 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Some "Edwardian" housing in Toronto (Palmerston Blvd.)

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.66034...7i13312!8i6656

What would Americans call this?
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2018, 6:49 PM
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design follows function too. light colors in the sw, brick in the snowbelt for inclement weather, block construction in the south for high humidity, wide soffits of nw bungalows for rain. but i get what you are saying OP. design also follows trends.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2018, 7:25 PM
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All Great Lakes cities look similarly "coastal"... simply because they are on a coast. And by physical nature of having that defined linear boundary of the lakshore (and usually relatively flat relief in close proximity to the shore) their urban layouts are generally going to be grid patterned.

I'd say that western Great Lakes cities look alike and eastern Great Lakes cities look alike. With eastern Great Lakes cities looking more northeastern and western Great Lakes cities looking more midwestern... primarily based on differences in regional topography... northeast being hilly and midwest being flat.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 3:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's interesting how to the uninitiated or non-horticultural among us, the presence of sumac trees in he summer can give a pseudo-tropical feel to northern climes where you wouldn't expect it.
I've always liked the look of sumac trees too. Sometimes they're purposely grown as garden plants but you'll also see them scattered around all kinds of places, in the margins of neighborhoods, by roadsides, parking lots, and in parks and forest edges.

Sumac fruit in powdered form as a spice is used in Middle Eastern cuisines -- one of the Mediterranean/southern European species of sumac is used as one of the ingredients in za'atar spice mix. Native peoples in North America also consumed the berries of some edible sumac species -- those of the staghorn sumac found in Ontario and Quebec, and the northeast US can be ground, strained and used to make syrup for a pink lemonade. Though on the other hand, there's also a species of sumac, the poison sumac in North America that's toxic and causes rashes (more so than even poison ivy) found in wet swampy soil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
(They're also gorgeous fire engine red in the autumn.)

The word 'sumac' traces its etymology from Old French sumac (13th century), from Mediaeval Latin sumach, from Arabic summāq (سماق), from Syriac summāq (ܣܡܘܩ)- meaning "red".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumac#Etymology
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:49 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
It's funny because I think the particular street lio45 chose (Grand Avenue through Bunker Hill) with the tall skyscrapers, WDCH, Broad, palm trees, and mountains in the distance is a dead giveaway.
That means I didn't cherry-pick enough then

(I just selected areas that I recalled I found surprisingly similar, and put the street view in them.)

The argument "someone who knows the city by heart will immediately be able to tell this view is City X and not City Y" does not invalidate at all City X looking like City Y.

And also, while I was exploring "the CBD" of LA (finding it surprisingly sterile for a city that size), my main focus wasn't how the mountains in the distance allow to distinguish the Sunbelt-Style Office Towers built form from Houston's... hope that's understandable? I generally find architecture to be more interesting and less interchangeable than distant mountains.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:15 AM
yaletown_fella yaletown_fella is offline
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Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
In terms of built environment, architecture, geography, etc. Every major city on the Great Lakes is built on a grid. All have or had strong cores. They're all fairly flat. Is there any other region with such a defining development pattern?

Great Lakes Cities
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Milwaukee
Toronto
Toronto is less centralized than Chicago. It is the most multi nodular of all the cities.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:31 AM
jd3189 jd3189 is offline
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That is another thing that the Great Lakes Cities (In the American side) have in common. They are extremely centralized at the coast and expand from there.


DSC_1146.jpg by Giles Moger, on Flickr


Cleveland, OH by Anomalous_A, on Flickr


Detroit by Chris Parfeniuk, on Flickr



And yeah, I know most American cities are centralized like this, but this is more apparent here. Only the Northeastern cities are this centralized as a group. Many Sunbelt cities have more than one node and there is considerable distance between them.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:16 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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Tried to find recent satellite imagery of the largest Great Lakes cities. These cities are textbook urban planning and development come to life IMO. Certainly for North America.

Chicago, Illinois
https://i.imgur.com/6nShUod.jpg
https://cbschicago.files.wordpress.c...from-space.jpg

Cleveland, Ohio
http://www.pictureninja.com/pages/un...-cleveland.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nd%2C_Ohio.jpg

Detroit, Michigan
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/cac2aba568...une-ex6rcc.jpg
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...dcfe.image.jpg

Milwaukee, Wisconsin
https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/a1/37/c...6cc5a48bd9.jpg

https://cityprints-wpengine.netdna-s...9/lt_mil_1.jpg

Toronto, Ontario
http://n7.alamy.com/zooms/8c41b685a5...ust-ex6nmx.jpg
https://torontoist.com/wp-content/up...ieldspace5.jpg

Chicago and Milwaukee are brothers.

Chicago River @ Wells St
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8875...7i13312!8i6656
Chicago River @ State St
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8877...7i13312!8i6656

Milwaukee River @ Wells St
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0405...7i13312!8i6656
Milwaukee River @ State St
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0429...7i13312!8i6656

Milwaukee is not as built up as Chicago, but similar foundations.

Last edited by IrishIllini; Jan 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:25 PM
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Toronto and Detroit seem very similar, especially the suburbs. Toronto has that segmented land use peculiarity though (shopping centers mixed in with light industrial buildings).

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#11;42...se;false;false

random suburbs of Detroit and Toronto: separated at birth?

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#13;42...se;false;false
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:36 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
There seem to be a lot of questions about the thread topic. I did not intend for the subject to be interpreted as "in x region, cities a, b, and c all look exactly the same in every way, shape, and form." My point is that there are a lot of shared characteristics between places like the Great Lakes cities. Chicago's geography is flatter than Toronto's, but the two cities have a very similar appearance from above. There are glaring differences at street level, but even then the form is fairly similar. I didn't intend for anyone to hyper focus on one particular, but compare these cities holistically.

LA may feel a bit like Atlanta in the sense that they both lack a central area that businesses and cultural amenities gravitate towards, but the development patterns aren't that similar IMO. LA isn't New York or Chicago, but it is fairly dense for being almost entirely detached SFHs. TBH, parts of LA feel a bit like some fringe neighborhoods and inner ring suburbs of Chicago to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9633...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9527...7i13312!8i6656

Atlanta's grid falls before it even gets started, really. This is Atlanta ~4 miles north of downtown.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7911...7i13312!8i6656

That looks more like Charlotte to me
Yea, I think LA and Chicago have things in common. The street grid is similar, and the Valley to me is a newer version of Chicago's bunaglow belt, with some exceptions. I've spent considerable time in both now.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:59 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Toronto and Detroit seem very similar, especially the suburbs. Toronto has that segmented land use peculiarity though (shopping centers mixed in with light industrial buildings).

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#11;42...se;false;false

random suburbs of Detroit and Toronto: separated at birth?

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#13;42...se;false;false
I can see why you'd say that. Neither Detroit nor Toronto's downtown is on a river. I guess you could argue Detroit's downtown is on the Detroit River, but the river does not run through downtown Detroit. Chicago, Cleveland, and Milwaukee's are. Downtown Cleveland is a bit east of the Cuyahoga, but it's close enough.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
SF's rowhome topography is more similar to the Mid-Atlantic than anything else in the country.

Much of why the Lakes cities look so similar visually is that they were developed in the same way, on similar topography, at the same time. The differences in vernacular are incredibly slight and it takes a trained eye to spot them.

I would also add I don't buy the whole Chicago-is-pancake-flat thing. Multiple terminal moraines (low relief) run through Chicagoland and the whole damn place is where it is because of a gap through the hill between the lake and the headwaters of the Illinois River. In fact, this belt of terminal moraines define the southern edge of the Great Lakes system, hydrologically, which is why the headwaters of the Allegheny (which are the hydrological headwaters of the Mississippi River system, believe it or not) are so close to Lake Erie ... and why the Illinois' headwaters are a stone's throw from Lake Michigan, even though those rivers drain into the Gulf of Mexico, a thousand miles the wrong way away.
the moraines don’t exhibit much relief at all...as a whole chicagoland is extraordinarily notable for its lack of topography compared to almost every other us region. the moraines are only noticeable because the surrounding topography is so incredibly flat. the city itself feels almost as flat as new orleans!

have you been to chicago? its the flattest midwestern region i can think of by quite a large margin. granted i don’t know greater detroit other than quick runs in and out on the expressway or flying.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 11:59 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Bringing this back to the question of Great Lakes cities, it's interesting to some similarities between L.A. and Detroit: both boomed in the early to mid 20th century(Detroit was late for the North, L.A. was early for the Sunbelt)were early examples of auto-dominated, weak-transit cities.

http://www.urbanophile.com/2012/02/2...pete-saunders/

Of course they had very different economies and locations.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
the moraines don’t exhibit much relief at all...as a whole chicagoland is extraordinarily notable for its lack of topography compared to almost every other us region. the moraines are only noticeable because the surrounding topography is so incredibly flat. the city itself feels almost as flat as new orleans!

have you been to chicago? its the flattest midwestern region i can think of by quite a large margin. granted i don’t know greater detroit other than quick runs in and out on the expressway or flying.
The largest moraine complex in the United States is Long Island, Staten Island, and the Outer Lands ...

It's interesting to note that the flattest lands overall in the Midwest are associated with proglacial lakebeds. The bed of Lake Agassiz is probably the largest stretch of near perfectly flat terrain you'll find on the continent, and Chicago proper is actually built in what was once the margin of proglacial Lake Chicago -- a Lake Michigan precursor.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
All Great Lakes cities look similarly "coastal"... simply because they are on a coast. And by physical nature of having that defined linear boundary of the lakshore (and usually relatively flat relief in close proximity to the shore) their urban layouts are generally going to be grid patterned.

I'd say that western Great Lakes cities look alike and eastern Great Lakes cities look alike. With eastern Great Lakes cities looking more northeastern and western Great Lakes cities looking more midwestern... primarily based on differences in regional topography... northeast being hilly and midwest being flat.
I like the look of Duluth. A smaller city but it looks larger probably because it stretches in a linear fashion and because of the rising topography, along with being older for it's size I guess. Is there another Great Lakes city that looks like it with the land rising pretty quickly from the lakefront?
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by toddguy View Post
I like the look of Duluth. A smaller city but it looks larger probably because it stretches in a linear fashion and because of the rising topography, along with being older for it's size I guess. Is there another Great Lakes city that looks like it with the land rising pretty quickly from the lakefront?
No city with as steep a rise from the lakefront as Duluth has that I know of.

Hamilton, ON has the Niagara Escarpment west of the city




Erie, PA rises sharply from the waterfront, but only for a short run, and then in a series of long slopes up to the Allegheny Plateau south of the city



Winter shots with frozen Presque Isle Bay and a snow-capped "peak"



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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 8:38 PM
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Was just in Milwaukee this weekend.

#1 - Best city in the world not named Chicago.

#2 - The same mental map I have in my head when I walk around sober in Chicago still works to guide me through the sloshed, jolly, drunken streets of Milwaukee.

#3 - Went to an outdoor bar. In January.

#4 - After Chicago sprang forth from the ether, the universe got super fucked up, staggered up the coast of Lake Michigan and made another carbon copy.

#5 - Done.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 8:47 PM
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^ milwaukee is a chicago that didn't burn to the ground in the late 19th century and never became the railroad center of the nation.

lovely public lakefronts and super-cool narrow urban rivers that run directly through and bisect (or trisect) their respective downtowns.

they are one of the best big brother/little brother city pairs in the country.


though the urban cheeseheads up the road do enjoy a bit more of a varied topography with their lakefront bluffs/ravines and actual river valleys.



same city, different scales:


source: me & https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-f...-image16529968
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 29, 2018 at 9:22 PM.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 9:22 PM
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^I have never been to "Milli-wa-kay" (Wayne's World reference), but it seems like it has under performed and the potential for that city is huge with a large lake front presence.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 9:51 PM
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^I have never been to "Milli-wa-kay" (Wayne's World reference), but it seems like it has under performed and the potential for that city is huge with a large lake front presence.
that perceived under performance might be related to milwaukee's proximity to the urban juggernaut located just 80 miles south of it.

then again, there are loads of small cities/towns with "large lakefront presences" all freaking over the great lakes region, and the vast majority of them never amounted to anything even 10% as significant as milwaukee, so maybe milwaukee has done just fine for itself?
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