CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[Chi-Sky21]

My bet would be near where the heli pad is along the river south of the city. Or maybe the marshaling yard by McCormick.

[k1052]

Yeah, I dunno about this. The noise is going to drive people nuts and the city council is likely to put the kibosh on it.

[nomarandlee]

Sorry if someone already posted.......

Final Environmental Assessment PDF with a plethora of renders and images (most likely rough placeholders, but pretty detailed in description) for the ORD 21 plans.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi...pendix_G_4.pdf

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Sorry if someone already posted.......

Final Environmental Assessment PDF with a plethora of renders and images (most likely rough placeholders, but pretty detailed in description) for the ORD 21 plans.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi...pendix_G_4.pdf

That document seems to confirm that these are the overall shapes to expect for the Global Terminal and Satellites:

[twister244]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Sorry if someone already posted.......

Final Environmental Assessment PDF with a plethora of renders and images (most likely rough placeholders, but pretty detailed in description) for the ORD 21 plans.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi...pendix_G_4.pdf

Very cool find! Thanks for sharing!

No beautiful new renderings of OGT or the new satellites, but it's super cool to see the details of how connections between existing terminals and the new additions will be modified. Happy to see the rotunda is getting a bit of a re-boot. I also totally overlooked the small additions to C and B. Looks like just additional baggage collection (B), and maybe some new seating area in C?

I don't see any evidence of VE of OGT here, but then again, if there is to be any, we will find that out in due time. Hoping they keep to the original design.....

If you want to try to predict what the new satellites may look like, it might be worth looking towards the new KC airport as SOM designed the new terminals there - https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas...terminal-tour/

Also - New hotels at T5 and the multi-modal facilities? That's news to me as well.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by twister244

Very cool find! Thanks for sharing!

No beautiful new renderings of OGT or the new satellites, but it's super cool to see the details of how connections between existing terminals and the new additions will be modified. Happy to see the rotunda is getting a bit of a re-boot. I also totally overlooked the small additions to C and B. Looks like just additional baggage collection (B), and maybe some new seating area in C?

I don't see any evidence of VE of OGT here, but then again, if there is to be any, we will find that out in due time. Hoping they keep to the original design.....

If you want to try to predict what the new satellites may look like, it might be worth looking towards the new KC airport as SOM designed the new terminals there - https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas...terminal-tour/

Also - New hotels at T5 and the multi-modal facilities? That's news to me as well.

I originally looked it up because it occurred me that there is dead space landside at T1 on the northeast side. I was wondering if there was going to be some new utilization of that space and was glad to see there are plans for it. What exactly will be a part of that space still remains to be seen, if landside concessions, check-in kiosk, or customer services will be interesting.

[kbud]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Sorry if someone already posted.......

Final Environmental Assessment PDF with a plethora of renders and images (most likely rough placeholders, but pretty detailed in description) for the ORD 21 plans.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi...pendix_G_4.pdf

Ever since the new T2 was announced it seems like concourse G is shoe-horned in to fit with the T2. About 2/3 of that concourse's west side will not have gates. I also know the rotunda is a symbol of the original O'Hare, but I wonder if it really should stay. It seems like a lot of work to try to keep it when it's small and very dark.

I know on many boards there are discussions on American's long term desire to keep a hub at ORD. When this phase of the new e T2 is complete, American's facilities will be much worse than United's at ORD. T3 will still have the same old and cramped infrastructure that is being cited for the demolition of T2.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by kbud

Ever since the new T2 was announced it seems like concourse G is shoe-horned in to fit with the T2. About 2/3 of that concourse's west side will not have gates. I also know the rotunda is a symbol of the original O'Hare, but I wonder if it really should stay. It seems like a lot of work to try to keep it when it's small and very dark.

I know on many boards there are discussions on American's long term desire to keep a hub at ORD. When this phase of the new e T2 is complete, American's facilities will be much worse than United's at ORD. T3 will still have the same old and cramped infrastructure that is being cited for the demolition of T2.

Won't both AA and UA operate out of the new Global Terminal together?

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

Won't both AA and UA operate out of the new Global Terminal together?

Yes, they are! They will be at new Global terminal. They had go through customs and immigration. No longer going to T5 customs. That’s from the past!

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by twister244

Very cool find! Thanks for sharing!

No beautiful new renderings of OGT or the new satellites, but it's super cool to see the details of how connections between existing terminals and the new additions will be modified. Happy to see the rotunda is getting a bit of a re-boot. I also totally overlooked the small additions to C and B. Looks like just additional baggage collection (B), and maybe some new seating area in C?

I don't see any evidence of VE of OGT here, but then again, if there is to be any, we will find that out in due time. Hoping they keep to the original design.....

If you want to try to predict what the new satellites may look like, it might be worth looking towards the new KC airport as SOM designed the new terminals there - https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas...terminal-tour/

Also - New hotels at T5 and the multi-modal facilities? That's news to me as well.

Yeah it would have been nice to see some updated, full renders, but you can kinda make out some terminal-level elevations of the updated design in some of the slides, so it's..something to tide over until the final design is released

[kbud]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

Won't both AA and UA operate out of the new Global Terminal together?

American and its One World partners will use T2 for int'l arrivals, but the majority of the American domestic departure and arrival flights will operate out of T3. The majority of United's domestic departure and arrival flights will operate out of T1's concourse B, concourse C, and the new satellite #2. United's concourses A and B are much roomier and nicer than T3, and it seems United will be the main tenant for the new satellite #2, which should be nicer than all of the other concourses.

I have not seen any details, but I am guessing American and United's int'l departures will not be limited to just T2.

Unless you are flying int'l on American (which is slowly shrinking), you most likely won't even experience the new T2. American has been slowly downsizing their ops at ORD, especially int'l. Their passengers will experience an inferior "hard" product at ORD once T2 is done giving their passengers another reason to switch to United. As an Executive Platinum flyer for AA for years this is really disappointing.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by kbud

Ever since the new T2 was announced it seems like concourse G is shoe-horned in to fit with the T2. About 2/3 of that concourse's west side will not have gates. I also know the rotunda is a symbol of the original O'Hare, but I wonder if it really should stay. It seems like a lot of work to try to keep it when it's small and very dark.

I know on many boards there are discussions on American's long term desire to keep a hub at ORD. When this phase of the new e T2 is complete, American's facilities will be much worse than United's at ORD. T3 will still have the same old and cramped infrastructure that is being cited for the demolition of T2.

I thought I remember reading in a report a few years ago of plans to expand the footprint of the concourses in Terminal 3 in order to fit in more concessions and passenger waiting space.

There was no mention those plans in this report though. I would agree that the T3 needs a massive overhaul, and even T1 could use some cosmetic upgrades.

[rl12383]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

I thought I remember reading in a report a few years ago of plans to expand the footprint of the concourses in Terminal 3 in order to fit in more concessions and passenger waiting space.

There was no mention those plans in this report though. I would agree that the T3 needs a massive overhaul, and even T1 could use some cosmetic upgrades.

This should answer part of your questions about terminal 3:

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...will-rece.html

There is also the project to add three gates to the L-stinger.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by kbud

Unless you are flying int'l on American (which is slowly shrinking), you most likely won't even experience the new T2. American has been slowly downsizing their ops at ORD, especially int'l. Their passengers will experience an inferior "hard" product at ORD once T2 is done giving their passengers another reason to switch to United. As an Executive Platinum flyer for AA for years this is really disappointing.

I'm not an airline analyst. But AA only has two hubs in the U.S. that aren't on the border or coast, DFW and ORD. United also has Denver and Delta has DET, MSP, ATL and SLC. I don't see how AA could afford logistically to dramatically reduce operations at ORD, though DFW and ORD are the most replicative of any two major mid-continent hubs.

[k1052]

AA's shrinking international capacity is largely due to fleet availability. They retired the A330s and 767s during COVID and the big 787 order is way delayed. They just don't have planes which is management's mistake.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by k1052

AA's shrinking international capacity is largely due to fleet availability. They retired the A330s and 767s during COVID and the big 787 order is way delayed. They just don't have planes which is management's mistake.

Yep - And United (from what it seems like) has been two steps ahead of AA, putting in major orders for widebody planes. And air taxis now too..... lol

I used to view United as a crappy airline somewhere between Frontier and Delta, but they have been making an effort over the recent years to elevate their image. If that means they expand their presence at O'Hare, which helps facilitate more improvements and expansions, I'm for it.

In a perfect world, AA would get their shit together and try to compete with United at O'Hare. I don't want the airport to be dominated by a single airline.

[Kngkyle]

United has damn near 100 more widebody aircraft than American. 220 vs 123. Delta doesn't get much closer at 157 widebodies.

United has the smallest narrowbody fleet though - something they are trying to fix with their orderbook of over 500 737s and A320s.

One thing that is going to be interesting to watch in the coming years is the implementation of the "use it or lose it" policy for gates. I think right now American is underutilizing their gates and if that continues the city will take them back and give them to someone else (assuming someone else wants them). It's unlikely American is going to abandon or scale ORD back much more than it already has - given they're on the hook for big $$$ for the ORD21 plan.

[takascar]

From FAA delay notice e-mail today:

"Due to [ OTHER / COYOTES ON THE FIELD ] there is a Ground Stop in effect for traffic arriving [ Chicago O'Hare International Airport(ORD) ]."

[twister244]

Still no new concessions opened in T5

But.... It's clear they are working on a ton of new stuff. Minus the new addition, there's split off construction along the entire stretch of the original T5. I spotted something that almost looked like an entrance to a new lounge. I was doubtful there were going to be any new lounges in T5 given the new Global Terminal being built, it appears there's too much construction for the handful of concessions that have been announced in here.

Security wasn't as bad either - Didn't seem like it was new, but it did appear to move faster than the previous times i've been in here.

[twister244]

So - Is work on the new satellites officially underway? I landed from Paris yesterday and there was a ton of excavation work occurring near the end of B. Perhaps it's prep work, but my friend who works for United makes it sound like they are working on a new tram system. I take that info with a grain of salt.

Also, there appears to be work on L, where there's a small addition in the rendering posted.