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View Poll Results: Is SEPTA doing a great job in regards to bus, subway, and commuter rail overall??????
YES 56 48.70%
NO 59 51.30%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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  #221  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 3:16 PM
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Article from Plan Philly:

Quote:
Helping SEPTA get around better

Aug. 18

By Anthony Campisi
For PlanPhilly

SEPTA bus riders may be seeing faster rides along city routes over the next year.

The Nutter administration plans to convene a Transit First panel that will tackle slow bus travel times and aim at reducing congestion along commercial corridors, according to Andrew Stober, director of strategic initiatives in the mayor's Office of Transportation and Utilities.

Stober said that the administration is in talks with SEPTA and city and state agencies like the Streets Department, Parking Authority and Pennsylvania Department of Transportation to convene the committee in October.

The goal of the panel will be to “identify where the opportunities exist to improve travel times,” Stober said, adding that “the city is going to be working with SEPTA in the next year to closely look at new routes.”

The Transit First panel will select routes and commercial corridors throughout the city where changes such as consolidating bus stops and introducing limited-stop bus service would cut down passenger travel times.

Philadelphia’s current bus and trolley network leans more toward providing riders with the convenience of frequent stops over providing reliable and fast service, Stober said, adding that the Transit First panel will try to better balance those competing interests.

Any successful effort at increasing bus and trolley travel time could yield big dividends for both SEPTA and riders. The faster buses and trolleys travel along their routes, the fewer vehicles SEPTA will need running at any one time in order to provide the same level of service.

A report released last year by the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission calculated that it cost SEPTA $142,900 to operate a peak-hour bus and $279,200 to operate a peak-hour trolley.

The effect of even small increases in vehicle speed would be significant. The same report, titled Speeding Up SEPTA, calculated that an increase of only 1 mph in City Transit Division bus service “would yield roughly $13 million in annual savings” for the agency.

And clocking in at a little above 10 mph, SEPTA buses are the third-slowest on average among major transit agencies surveyed by the DVRPC. (The New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority came in last at an average below 8 mph, in part because of the dense urban areas it serves.)

One way of speeding up service that the Transit First panel will be considering is bus stop consolidation. National guidelines call for bus stops to be placed about a quarter-mile apart in urban areas to minimize travel time while still retaining accessible service.

In many Philadelphia neighborhoods, including Center City and surrounding areas, buses stop at every corner along their routes.

Though this effectively provides door-to-door service for many Philadelphians, it also has the effect of lengthening travel time. A stop consolidation project in Los Angeles cited by the DVRPC found that a 71.4-percent reduction in bus stops along a bus route led to a 9.25-percent reduction in running time.

The Center City District, in a report released last year entitled Managing Success in Center City (http://www.centercityphila.org/docs/...congestion.pdf) called on SEPTA to study placing bus stops on every other corner in Center City as a way of speeding up bus service to provide travelers “a significantly faster cross-town alternative” to other means of transportation.

Ahmed El-Geneidy, a professor at the McGill School of Urban Planning who studies bus stop spacing, explained that every bus stop placed along a route increases total travel time by about 5 to 10 seconds — even when no passengers are present. Bus drivers who have to prepare to pick up passengers at a stop are kept from accelerating as much as they could.

“Stopping at every single block is wrong,” he said.

However, to get the most out of stop consolidation, SEPTA will have to remove stops that riders use. The goal of stop removal, El-Geneidy said, is to consolidate riders who are spread out along bus and trolley routes and concentrate them at fewer stops with higher use.

Though it may be difficult to convince riders to give up the convenience of stops on every block, agencies that have succeeded in consolidation have reported high levels of customer satisfaction.

In fact, customers report greater travel-time savings than consolidation actually provides. In a paper currently under peer review, El-Geneidy found that riders in Montreal “felt savings up to 10 minutes for trips even though their savings were a minute and a half.”

At the same time, transit agencies have to be flexible in their consolidation efforts, El-Geneidy said. Elderly and disabled ridership patterns have to be taken into account so that stops and areas frequented by people who have trouble walking long distances won’t be affected.

The most difficult problem to solve when it comes to measures like stop consolidation, he said, is political. Riders and businesses frequently protest the perceived inconvenience of having fewer stops.

David Hull, a service planning supervisor at the King County Metro in Seattle, agrees. His agency has undertaken bus consolidation along several routes and has had to face down community opposition.

“A lot of people take removing stops as a take-away,” he said.

Though stop consolidation, when done right, doesn’t need to affect many riders, it’s often difficult for transit agencies to convey this fact, Hull said. Those who feel slighted by the proposed changes are usually more effective at mobilizing than transit riders who will see their travel time go down.

As a way of dealing with public concerns in a single stroke, the King County Metro is considering a system-wide stop consolidation process to replace the more scattered efforts that have taken place in recent years. As part of that, Hull said the agency is considering instituting a formal appeals process to allow riders who disagree with any changes a space to air their grievances.

The Transit First committee won’t be the first such effort to improve service by the city and SEPTA.

The city’s first Transit First project was completed in 2006 along the Route 52 bus. It discontinued two stops and moved 27 others to the far sides of their intersections.

Moving bus stops to the other side of intersections, while not “a silver bullet” for decreasing trip time, according to Stober, allows buses to accelerate and decelerate more efficiently. The DVRPC said that moving the 27 stops resulted in total time savings of more than 5 minutes.
Also included is a recent DVPRC report: septaspeed.pdf
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  #222  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2009, 4:42 PM
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I have a question about the river light rail, is there any particular reason that it can't use the dead space under 95? Then it would provide both access to the water front as well as Queen village and Pennsport. It would also help eliminate the feeling of a no-mans land by bring people to the area under 95 making more comfortable to walk from the neighborhoods to the waterfront.
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  #223  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2009, 10:48 PM
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I'm not sure who owns the land under 95, exactly, so I don't know if it can be considered an option. There are several parking lots, a skating rink and such under the highway in South Philly which on paper is no reason not to build the line there. Of course, moving the route even a block further away from the waterfront itself may not symbolically be the best thing to do.

Muji, thanks for posting that. The high frequency of stops on the bus system is a common complaint and it's funny that the Route 52 was specifically mentioned in the article because I was going to mention how a major intersecting route, the 21, also could stand to lose a few stops - particularly eastbound. Some routes have ridiculous sections - the 48 stops twice on the same side of the same block just east of the Art Museum. That isn't necessary. I do feel that a lot of the stops exist because of community requests.
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  #224  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2009, 11:05 PM
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I don't think there's really anything wrong w/ the SEPTA buses stopping at every block, especially since the majority of the buses are feeder buses (G, 79, 29 in South Philly) which serve the BSL. The real problem are the direction of routes, which is related to our subway system, since we have only two subway routes.

I feel this is the reason why some of the bus routes (the 89 for Margaret-Orthodox to York-Dauphin and the 26 from Gtown to Frankford) take so freaking long to get to their destinations. When the 26 gets to the NE, it has to take Tabor Av, and then turns left to Levick St, where it empties out, then it picks up a new set of passengers along Harbison Ave to Bridge-Pratt.

I feel that our bus system should be similar to NYC, Chicago, and Toronto, with feeder bus routes either going N to S, E to W, dedicated to each street, but you have to change the subway system. I always felt that taking the NW rail lines (R6, R7, and R8 to Chestnut Hill and Norristown) and the Airport Line should be converted to the subway system as well as subway coverage for the NE, and even another subway line for South Philly via Passyunk ave to SW Philly and Darby wouldn't hurt.
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  #225  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2009, 1:05 AM
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There are essentially two types of bus routes SEPTA runs - circulators and feeders and most routes arguably play both roles at some point between destinations.

SEPTA's bus system isn't too dissimilar from any other city as far as layout. I'd argue that express options would be a sensisble addtion since, as you so so frequently point out, the subway system isn't as extensive as it should be. There are redundant routes (the 21 for The El, the 2 for the BSS, for instance) that shadow current rail that can serve as express options in addition to creating routes along high density corridors that connect directly and almost exclusively to transit nodes and major intersections throughout the city (i.e. - a super express from say Broad & Olney to Franklin Mills or along City Avenue to Delaware Avenue, just as examples).

miketoronto in 3....2....1....
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  #226  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2009, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
There are essentially two types of bus routes SEPTA runs - circulators and feeders and most routes arguably play both roles at some point between destinations.

SEPTA's bus system isn't too dissimilar from any other city as far as layout. I'd argue that express options would be a sensisble addtion since, as you so so frequently point out, the subway system isn't as extensive as it should be. There are redundant routes (the 21 for The El, the 2 for the BSS, for instance) that shadow current rail that can serve as express options in addition to creating routes along high density corridors that connect directly and almost exclusively to transit nodes and major intersections throughout the city (i.e. - a super express from say Broad & Olney to Franklin Mills or along City Avenue to Delaware Avenue, just as examples).

miketoronto in 3....2....1....
The 2, I can agree with, since it's about 2-3 blocks away from the BSL and should be on the chopping bock, but the only reason why I don't feel that the 21 should go away is because it's a good supplement for the MFL, and also because Walnut and Chestnut St are major arteries in Phila, unlike 16th in North Central Philly although 17th St, which used to be a small business district in Tioga-Nicetown, is a good arterial street for bus service.
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  #227  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 7:59 PM
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Our system is actually pretty good

In the past many of us, myself included have made comments on how to improve our transportation system, but after visiting Minneapolis last week, I must say that our transportation system actually works very well when compared to some other cities. Yes, Minneapolis is a smaller city, but considering they have as many fortune 500 companies (15) as Philadelphia, I thought it was a somewhat reasonable comparison. They have 1 light rail train which connects to the airport. Other than that there are buses. but because of the extremely crowded highways, buses are permitted to ride on the shoulder. As you get on the highway, signs warn you that buses are riding on the shoulder. Traffic is an absolute nightmare. A regional rail system similar to ours would do wonders out there. Overall our system of commuter lines, subway/el trains, trolleys and buses is actually pretty effective. Though it could use improvement from the standpoint of the average Philadelphian, I didn't fully appreciate how good it was until I stopped using it for a week.
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  #228  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 2:39 AM
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The system is comprehensive, true, particularly in comparison to many other major US cities. It's a lack of vision and competent management (and a feckless union) that keeps it mired in the depths.

I read an article in the NYT yesterday about Phoenix's new light rail line and how it is essesntially a party train - most people who ride it take it into downtown to party and hang out. Comparatively few use it for commuting. That can't be said here.

There's a tier system if one wants to compare transit systems across the country and despite its problems SEPTA would be on the first tier.
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  #229  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 9:46 AM
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WOW, VZ! Tell us more.

Meanwhile, along the Delaware....


from here: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local...rail_plan.html

Sep. 22, 2009

Public hearings set on waterfront rail plan
By Paul Nussbaum
Inquirer Staff Writer

As transit planners contemplate a rail line along the Delaware riverfront, they're overlooking the best way to connect it to Center City, says a local architect who has long argued for better riverfront access.

Alan Charles Johnson's solution: Extend SEPTA's Market Street subway 400 feet east from the Second Street station to join a proposed rail line on Columbus Boulevard.

Johnson's unsolicited advice comes on the eve of the first of two public meetings about proposals for a trolley line along the waterfront and into Center City.

For years, the Delaware River Port Authority, which operates the PATCO High-Speed Line between South Jersey and Center City, has talked about extending rail service along Columbus Boulevard.

In January 2008, the DRPA chose three alternatives to examine. The agency has said it will announce its route selection within 60 days.

The meetings today and next week will be the last opportunities for public input before that route decision is announced.

Two of the proposed plans would connect waterfront rail service to existing PATCO trains at the soon-to-reopen Franklin Square subway station at Seventh and Race Streets. A third - and more likely - scenario is a PATCO link at Eighth and Market Streets to a new Market Street trolley line from the waterfront.

As currently envisioned, that trolley line would run along the surface of Market Street from the waterfront to City Hall, where it would connect with SEPTA's subway-surface trolley line.

The new service, which would require federal financial help, is probably at least $1 billion and eight to 10 years away, DRPA officials have said.

But Johnson estimated an extension of the Market Street subway could be built to the waterfront for about $200 million.

"The station at Second Street is already there, and it's at the same level as the waterfront," Johnson said.

He said a new trolley line along Market Street would get bogged down in street traffic, while the subway would avoid that.

John Matheussen, DRPA chief executive officer, said DRPA planners had "very preliminarily" considered a Market Street subway link to the waterfront and dismissed it as too expensive and inefficient.

The heavy-rail subway trains would not be compatible with light-rail trolleys, Matheussen said, and the two separate lines would require a passenger transfer station with elevators to link the two.

"We decided that from a standpoint of efficiency, access, and cost, it was not a good alternative," Matheussen said.

The public sessions on the waterfront-transit proposals will be held from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. today at the Friends Meeting House, Fourth and Arch Streets, and at the same times on Sept. 30 at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania, 1300 Locust St.

The proposals are available on the DRPA Web site at www.patcopaexpansion.com.
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  #230  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 12:42 PM
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Market Trolley = Redundant and Wasteful

I'm ecstatic for a waterfront light rail line but linking this route to a new trolley line over Market seems wasteful and redundant. When this proposal surfaced, it didn't make sense (then either) why we should build a new line which virtually parallels an existing one, the el, only to have it link up with the SSL. The only advantage I see for this plan is that riders traveling east-to-west on the new Market trolley line will be able to stop at stations between City Hall and the Schykill, unlike the current configuration which requires one to transfer from the el to SSL. Not only is it redundant but it's wasteful too. $1 billion to replicate what we already have for marginal gains? I'd rather they save $800 million by extending the el to the waterfront then sink that money into planning a Roosevelt Blvd line. In addition to burning paper money, the plan would also create more congestion along Market not only during the construction phase - up to 5yrs? - but also permanently once it's active and consuming at least 2 of the existing lanes of traffic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks native View Post
WOW, VZ! Tell us more.

Meanwhile, along the Delaware....


from here: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local...rail_plan.html

Sep. 22, 2009

Public hearings set on waterfront rail plan
By Paul Nussbaum
Inquirer Staff Writer

As transit planners contemplate a rail line along the Delaware riverfront, they're overlooking the best way to connect it to Center City, says a local architect who has long argued for better riverfront access.

Alan Charles Johnson's solution: Extend SEPTA's Market Street subway 400 feet east from the Second Street station to join a proposed rail line on Columbus Boulevard.

Johnson's unsolicited advice comes on the eve of the first of two public meetings about proposals for a trolley line along the waterfront and into Center City.

For years, the Delaware River Port Authority, which operates the PATCO High-Speed Line between South Jersey and Center City, has talked about extending rail service along Columbus Boulevard.

In January 2008, the DRPA chose three alternatives to examine. The agency has said it will announce its route selection within 60 days.

The meetings today and next week will be the last opportunities for public input before that route decision is announced.

Two of the proposed plans would connect waterfront rail service to existing PATCO trains at the soon-to-reopen Franklin Square subway station at Seventh and Race Streets. A third - and more likely - scenario is a PATCO link at Eighth and Market Streets to a new Market Street trolley line from the waterfront.

As currently envisioned, that trolley line would run along the surface of Market Street from the waterfront to City Hall, where it would connect with SEPTA's subway-surface trolley line.

The new service, which would require federal financial help, is probably at least $1 billion and eight to 10 years away, DRPA officials have said.

But Johnson estimated an extension of the Market Street subway could be built to the waterfront for about $200 million.

"The station at Second Street is already there, and it's at the same level as the waterfront," Johnson said.

He said a new trolley line along Market Street would get bogged down in street traffic, while the subway would avoid that.

John Matheussen, DRPA chief executive officer, said DRPA planners had "very preliminarily" considered a Market Street subway link to the waterfront and dismissed it as too expensive and inefficient.

The heavy-rail subway trains would not be compatible with light-rail trolleys, Matheussen said, and the two separate lines would require a passenger transfer station with elevators to link the two.

"We decided that from a standpoint of efficiency, access, and cost, it was not a good alternative," Matheussen said.

The public sessions on the waterfront-transit proposals will be held from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. today at the Friends Meeting House, Fourth and Arch Streets, and at the same times on Sept. 30 at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania, 1300 Locust St.

The proposals are available on the DRPA Web site at www.patcopaexpansion.com.
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  #231  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 2:24 PM
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Why is PATCO proposing a waterfront trolley? Because right now the waterfront is glam. But at the same time there's literally nothing there and it's doubtful it would spur development. A much better option, though, would be to build a light rail line down Washington Avenue and up 40th, from Powelton Village to the waterfront via Grays Ferry...it would pass through underserved districts and Washington is so wide it wouldn't be hard to put a line along it.
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  #232  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 2:25 PM
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I completely agree, if they want to make the subway surface line actually work, they would take it off market and run it along spruce or locust or something, then people would actually use it. I always felt the best way to run that line is to do just that and then have it turn north around 12th or 11th and then go west along arch or race or in that train tunnel that runs up Pennsylvania avenue and have it go up the parkway and cross the river to the zoo and ultimately terminating at 52nd street or some other place in west fairmount park. But that is more of a pipe dream of mine. Running this line is completely inane I understand a trolley down Delaware ave to an extent, but in the end its an auto centric part of the city and living in queen village/bella vista I know I'd rarely use it, I'd sadly drive to the target or what have you down there if I really need to get down there. and as you said pwp, It'd much rather sink the money into a different line that would actually get used, like maybe the one I proposed, the boulevard subway, or a finally realize the ridge avenue-8th street subway (runs from manayunk down ridge through to center city or whatever) I feel like any of those three lines would be used so much more than a trolley next to the river.
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  #233  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 4:32 PM
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I Think removing stops on the bus system is a needed feature, since many of them simply go far too slow. A crosstown route in North or South Philly for example should only be stopping at the numbered avenues rather than at every little cross street.


I still don't really agree that Philly should be exploring subway expanison at this time. Maybe the Boulevard line, but aside from that, SEPTA should try to pick the low-hanging fruit first before diving into these grandouse schemes. Simple things such as saftey/cleanlyness, bringing half hourly midday/weekend RR service to some of the more heavily used lines, restoring trolley service on the major avenue routes like the 60, 23, 25, etc. Most of the areas within the subway zone are still trying to make some progress if not stop continuing decline. Fishtown, South Philly and Inner West Philly are leading that charge, and it's the little changes that riders will apprecate most....
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  #234  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 4:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Why is PATCO proposing a waterfront trolley? Because right now the waterfront is glam. But at the same time there's literally nothing there and it's doubtful it would spur development. A much better option, though, would be to build a light rail line down Washington Avenue and up 40th, from Powelton Village to the waterfront via Grays Ferry...it would pass through underserved districts and Washington is so wide it wouldn't be hard to put a line along it.
Covering 95 should be the city's first priority. It's a massive asthetic and psychological barrier not to mention a property tax drain on the city.
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  #235  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 5:23 PM
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Looking north for city biking inspiration

Quote:
Looking north for city biking inspiration
By Roman Deininger

Inquirer Staff Writer

Visitors to Montreal will notice them right away: paved bike-only lanes that move riders unhampered through the canyons of downtown as well as the cobblestone squares of the old city.
Add to that a successful European-style bike-sharing program unveiled this spring, with 3,000 Bixi bikes available at 300 stations across the city.

"You can't go a block without seeing a cyclist here," said Dan Rona-Hartzog, 31, a Montreal student who rides his bike to campus every day. "Biking became very much a part of our culture."

It's a bicycle-lover's dream city, and one that other cities, including Philadelphia, are looking to for inspiration.

"Montreal is definitely a city to look at as a model," Philadelphia's Alex Doty said as he used his cell phone to show off photos from a visit to Montreal in June. "I was really impressed."

Doty, executive director of the Bicycle Coalition of Greater Philadelphia, dreams of turning Philadelphia into a "world-class city for cyclists," a place so well-equipped for pedaling "that people from all walks of life don't have to think twice to take the bike instead of the car or the bus."

Philadelphia will take a huge step forward today when Mayor Nutter officially opens two cross-town bike lanes on Spruce and Pine Streets in Center City, a pilot project that supporters hope will become permanent.

Doty said Montreal's path to being a bicycle-friendly city can help because it is in many ways comparable to Philadelphia: "It's our size, it has a similar traffic volume, and the winters are even more difficult than ours."

How did Montreal manage the transformation over the last two decades to pedal town? "Certainly not overnight," says Andre Lavallee, vice chairman of Montreal's executive committee, who is responsible for urban planning and public transportation.

"In the beginning, the mid-'80s, there was a lot of doubt and heavy resistance," Lavallee recalled.

"Drivers feared that giving up space for riders would slow down traffic, cause congestion, and cost parking spots."

Now, drivers and riders have adapted to each other, and complaints are minimal, Lavallee said.

Activist groups played a vital role in educating road users. "You have to give people time to change their mentality in favor of bicycling," said Lavallee. Today, he said, many locals take pride in biking "as a symbol for the green city we hope to create."

In Philadelphia, cycling doubled from 2005 to 2008, according to surveys by the Bicycle Coalition. The end of Kelly Drive, for example, has 30,000 cyclists a week. More than 3,000 riders turned out for a recent Bike Philly event in Center City.

There's also a growing awareness that bicycling helps the environment and saves money otherwise spent on gasoline, said Doty. "And biking is often more reliable than taking the car or the bus," he added. "Plus, you get some exercise."

Philadelphia, he said, "has tremendous potential for biking - the way William Penn laid it out, very flat and very clear." The Schuylkill River Trail and other recreational paths are as attractive as any in the country. But Doty acknowledged, "There was neglect in the past, and that's why we still have a very long way to go."

Philadelphia has 215 miles of bike lanes (and an additional 32 miles of multiuse trails without cars), but only four miles are in Center City. And this is only one of the gaping holes of the network.

But the city is making progress.

"The city will be much more bike-friendly 10 years from now," said Charles Carmalt, the city's pedestrian and bicycle coordinator. "The times don't allow for one giant leap, though, but rather a series of incremental changes."

The city has installed 1,400 new racks in the last 18 months to ease the shortage of bike parking. By December, the city expects to turn 1,600 old parking meter poles into racks, said Andrew Stober, director of strategic initiatives in the Mayor's Office of Transportation and Utilities.

The League of American Bicyclists, an advocacy group in Washington, recently applauded the "great strides" Philadelphia has made and designated the city a "bike-friendly community," even if it lags far behind cities such as Seattle, San Francisco, or the top-ranked Boulder, Colo.

One of the things missing in Philadelphia is a bike-share program that would encourage more people to take up bicycling. An estimated 100 cities worldwide have introduced such a system, starting with Amsterdam in the mid-1960s. One of the largest programs is Paris' Velib system, which features more than 20,000 bikes.

In the United States, the first program began last summer in Washington, but with only 120 bikes.

Boston and Minneapolis are gearing up to start larger-scale operations possibly as early as next year, with 2,500 and 1,000 bikes, respectively. New York, Portland, Ore., and other cities are examining the idea. Each is looking to duplicate Montreal's success.

Under the Bixi system (the name is a contraction of bicycle and taxi), a rider can unlock a bike from one docking station with the swipe of a membership or credit card, then drop off the bike at any other location. Subscription fees range from $72 per year to around $5 per day. The first 30 minutes of each trip are free - clever riders change bikes in time and don't pay. An annual membership entitles a rider to unlimited access to the system.

Bixi, which won two prestigious awards for the design of its sturdy and comfy bike and the solar-powered docking stations, has 100,000 users per day on average. "We are personalizing mass transit," said Lavallee. "This is a vital part of our transportation concept for the city."

In Philadelphia, a feasibility study by the William Penn Foundation on starting a bike-share system will be completed by the end of the year. Among the biggest concerns are vandalism and theft, but Bixi's high-tech aluminium bikes have proven to be "secure and robust enough for an American urban environment," said Doty. While Bixi does not operate during Montreal's harsh winter, Philadelphia's milder winter could allow riding nearly all year, Doty said.

Whether Philadelphia can embrace a bike-share program depends on funding. Montreal has spent $14 million in designing, producing, and installing the bikes and the docking stations, and after five months, officials say they are confident the system can sustain itself with the revenue from usage fees.

While Stober called a bike-share program appealing for Philadelphia, the city's fiscal crisis rules it out right now.

Doty is undeterred. "Nobody said it would be easy."
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/lo...spiration.html
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  #236  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blorkishdork View Post
I completely agree, if they want to make the subway surface line actually work, they would take it off market and run it along spruce or locust or something, then people would actually use it. I always felt the best way to run that line is to do just that and then have it turn north around 12th or 11th and then go west along arch or race or in that train tunnel that runs up Pennsylvania avenue and have it go up the parkway and cross the river to the zoo and ultimately terminating at 52nd street or some other place in west fairmount park. But that is more of a pipe dream of mine. Running this line is completely inane I understand a trolley down Delaware ave to an extent, but in the end its an auto centric part of the city and living in queen village/bella vista I know I'd rarely use it, I'd sadly drive to the target or what have you down there if I really need to get down there. and as you said pwp, It'd much rather sink the money into a different line that would actually get used, like maybe the one I proposed, the boulevard subway, or a finally realize the ridge avenue-8th street subway (runs from manayunk down ridge through to center city or whatever) I feel like any of those three lines would be used so much more than a trolley next to the river.
Yeah I hear that. I'd love to see a line supporting the parkway and musuem district too or something connecting Manayunk to CC outside of regional rail. Blork, where can I find info on the train tunnels of Phila? It's cool that you seem to know the infrastructure and I've always been curious of what it looks like - as I'm only aware of what's actually used, e.g., BSL, MFL, SSL, RR, etc.
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  #237  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 8:08 PM
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Running the light-rail line on the surface of Market Street is completely pointless and redundant. I do think the waterfront line is a good idea, there may not be much there, but I think it will help spur development and any new development will incorporate the light rail into its design. This is a long-term investment and we may not see real dividents for 10-20 years. I think connecting it to Franklin Square is also a good idea. It will make Franklin Square more accessible to tourists (and the residents near the waterfront), but I hope they manage to integrate the line into the transportation network better than the plans seem to show so far. I guess a tunnel connecting Franklin square to City Hall (and the SSL trolleys) is out of consideration right now....too bad.
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  #238  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 10:43 PM
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Waterfront Trolley

Waterfront trolley line could run $500 million

By Paul Nussbaum

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
A trolley line along the Philadelphia waterfront, with a connection to Center City, could cost about $500 million and eventually carry about 15,000 riders a day, according to new estimates.

The Delaware River Port Authority, which operates the PATCO High Speed line between South Jersey and Philadelphia, is proposing to build a light-rail line along Columbus Boulevard.

The DRPA, along with SEPTA and city officials, is expected to announce next month its plans for the waterfront line and its choice among three possible rail links to Center City.

The link likely to be selected is "Alternative Two," a trolley line along Market Street from Columbus Boulevard to City Hall.

That would offer the highest ridership and would be the most expensive of the three alternatives under consideration, according to details unveiled Tuesday at a public session on the plans.

The cost is estimated at $364 million to $514 million. Daily ridership is projected to be 12,000 to 14,600 passengers by the year 2030.

"That's certainly not chump change, but it's relatively inexpensive for transit construction," said DRPA chief executive John Matheussen. The DRPA hopes to get federal funding to help pay for the line, which wouldn't be built for at least five years.

The other alternatives would connect the waterfront trolley to the soon-to-be-reopened PATCO station at Franklin Square beneath 6th and Race streets.

One, dubbed Alternative One, would cost an estimated $310 million to $437 million and carry 7,000 to 8,500 riders a day by 2030. The other, Alternative Three, would cost an estimated $339 million to $479 million and carry 7,900 to 9,700 riders per day by 2030.

Discussions continue with city and SEPTA officials about who would operate the service. It's possible DRPA could build the line and SEPTA would operate it.

The annual operating and maintenance costs would also be slightly higher for the Market Street alternative: up to $14.3 million a year, compared to $12.3 million for Alternative One and $13.5 million for Alternative Three.

The proposed waterfront line would operate on tracks in the middle of Columbus Boulevard from Pier 70 at the south end to Girard Avenue at the north end. That would provide service between the two casinos planned for the waterfront, Foxwoods in the south and SugarHouse in the north.

The proposed Market Street trolley to City Hall from the waterfront line would provide a connection to City Hall and the Pennsylvania Convention Center. But, planners said, it could require changes to Market Street auto and bus traffic.

And the routing of the Market Street trolley over I-95 "may be inconsistent with the city's vision for Penn's Landing" on the waterfront, the DRPA noted.

The trolleys would not be speed merchants.

Estimates for travel times during peak hours predict a 39-minute ride along the 3.3 miles of waterfront from Pier 70 to Girard Avenue, with seven intermediate stops.

To get from City Hall to either Girard Avenue or Pier 70, via the Market Street trolley, would take 38 minutes, according to preliminary estimates.

Planners and DRPA officials heard Tuesday from several people who suggested changes in the plans.

Architect Alan Johnson urged that the Market Street trolley be scrapped in favor of using the existing Market Street subway to get from the waterfront to Center City. He advocated extending the existing Second Street subway station 400 feet to Columbus Boulevard to provide a waterfront link.

Scott Maits, vice president of the Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers and a former trolley operator on Columbus Boulevard, advocated extending the southern end of the waterfront line to Oregon Avenue, near the intersection of I-95 and I-76, where a large park-and-ride lot could be built.

A second public session on the waterfront trolley proposal is set for 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. Wednesday at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania at 1300 Locust St.
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  #239  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 12:28 AM
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wow, what a waste of money this would be
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  #240  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 3:50 PM
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Subway Station at the Art Museum?

I read recently in a book about the construction of the Art Museum that there was (possibly still is) a "tiled station" somewhere in the belly of the museum. It was included in the initial design of the museum as the subway system, which didn't become active until after its opening, had hoped to build a line running down the parkway.

Can anyone validate that such a station exists or had existed? Pictures?
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