Hot cities or cold cities; 4 seasons or no seasons; desert cities or green cities?

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by citywatch

My impression of miami bch has been based on when a lot of new highrise devlpt hadn't yet occurred. The lower slung art deco bldgs are nice, but by themselves they made me think (as the case in the 1980s, etc) that both the culture & economy of the city hadn't progressed. Now all the very large highrise projs throughout Miami are giving a different vibe to the place.

The culture...things like the performing arts....is still closer to that of a beachside town, but that has also been true of LA/socal....woody allen's smirks & jibes....until not too long ago too.

I've spent quite a bit of time in South Beach over the last decade or so (2-3x per year) and this is my general perception as well, that SoBe is progressing. The addition of 1 Hotel (their rooftop is amazing), the renovation of the Delano, and the Raleigh Hotel and others, that is at least my perception.

From a night life perspective, it's a mixed bag, and always has been. You can basically find whatever scene you want. It's an interesting place.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Crawford

South Beach, around 2000-era, had a unique vibe. It wasn't a tourist trap except on Ocean Drive, and was still mostly ungentrified south of 5th Street. You still had the vestiges of Jewish pensioners from the Bronx, and Cuban refugees living in dumpy buildings south of 5th. Collins was gentrifying but still bohemian, Washington and Lincoln were barely gentrified. Everything north of Lincoln was no-mans-land.

And those art deco hotels have no equivalent anywhere, I don't think. Even if visiting is a horrible experience. And it probably won't exist in a few generations, given the failing aquifer.

I first visited Miami in 2002, and I recall there being very few hi-rises downtown (maybe 10?), two new towers at the southern tip of South Beach, and honestly zero new towers under construction. The big boom that led up to the collapse hadn't taken off.

A friend and I were staying with her sister and her friends in one of the art deco hotels. It's shocking to think back that a bunch of middle class college students could afford to split rooms in one of those places for like $25/head but that's how it was. The place we were in wasn't fancy (I'm sure that it has been renovated and is now $1,000/night). We made the mistake of walking next door and it was like jaw-dropping by comparison. I've rarely felt that out-of-place in my life. Tons of plastic surgery!

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I dated a girl from Miami 20 years ago, and had frequent visits for a short window in the early 2000's. It seems so much worse now than back then. It's fiendishly expensive along the coast, Miami Beach now seems trashier than the French Quarter (at least Lincoln southwards), and the douche factor seems like 1000x worse. I don't know how people can live south of Lincoln Rd. And I'll admit I'm biased by the state's rightward, populist, trolling shift.

But obviously these things are subjective. And Fort Lauderdale-Broward seems much nicer than back then (Broward seemed like the "ghetto" South Florida county). And Palm Beach County has graduated past the retirees, rednecks and Jews era.

I would say that it's different... rather than worse, now. I also prefer the Miami of the 90s and early 00s (but maybe this is tinged with nostalgia for a simpler time)... it was not a "Spring Break" type destination at all, decidedly anti-Spring Break-ish, actually.

However, the city of Miami itself / mainland has improved quite a bit from economic diversity, arts & culture, restaurant/bar scene, urban environment perspectives, while Miami Beach (South Beach) has devolved into a xxx-tra cheesy stew of guido-bro-chonga-hip hop-tik tok scum.

Miami proper and near environs have gotten stupidly expensive all around. From a real estate perspective, I'm lucky that I bought a house in close proximity to the water in the late 90s -- it was cheap then, and the prices in the area now for modest houses are ludicrous.

Ocean Drive should be one of the most beautiful and classiest thoroughfares on the planet. But instead... it might be one of the trashiest human scenes on the planet.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

It's an interesting place.

I'm noticing that about more & more places & ppl throughout both the US & world. Way more is going on everywhere than assumed, both good & bad too. Although the subj is the climate of cities, how even that's judged runs the gamut from a to z. I read that more ppl are moving to cold weather toronto than they are to many other cities in north America....whodda thunk it?

I don't know what the weather is like in Kevadiya, india, but that town built not too many yrs ago the world's tallest statue .

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by pj3000

However, the city of Miami itself / mainland has improved quite a bit from economic diversity, arts & culture, restaurant/bar scene, urban environment perspectives, while Miami Beach (South Beach) has devolved into a xxx-tra cheesy stew of guido-bro-chonga-hip hop-tik tok scum.

I personally don't split the various sections of metro Miami into small chunks. To me, one part of it should be lumped together with other parts. I do that with other cities too, so from my vantage point 'miami' in general is moving up in the world.

[destroycreate]

I totally agree with what people are saying about Ocean Drive having an extremely low-brow, honky tonk vibe. Does anyone know why this has become the case given the past glamorous/more elevated past? I really didn't like the vibe south of Lincoln, it was very WorldStarHipHop meets Redneck Riviera vibes.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I totally agree with what people are saying about Ocean Drive having an extremely low-brow, honky tonk vibe. Does anyone know why this has become the case given the past glamorous/more elevated past? I really didn't like the vibe south of Lincoln, it was very WorldStarHipHop meets Redneck Riviera vibes.

It seems like boilerplate mass market adult American tourism to me. Ocean Drive feels like the Vegas strip or Times Square.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I totally agree with what people are saying about Ocean Drive having an extremely low-brow, honky tonk vibe. Does anyone know why this has become the case given the past glamorous/more elevated past? I really didn't like the vibe south of Lincoln, it was very WorldStarHipHop meets Redneck Riviera vibes.

The national promotion / popularity of South Beach in the late 90s and early 2000s led to people not being scared of Miami anymore.

South Beach became a tourist mecca again for the more wealthy/famous/artsy/hip/beautiful/rich/glamorous set, and then once it was deemed safe enough (and cheap), it became popular for Spring breakers who were chased out of Ft. Lauderdale, then bachelor/bachelorette parties, and then the further natural devolution occurred from there... bars and restaurants began catering to a lower economic clientele (quantity vs. quality business model) which resulted in a positive feedback loop for more down-market events/attractions/patrons... and pretty soon South Beach became home to Urban Beach Week/Black Bike Week happening around Memorial Day weekend... which pretty much slammed the door on any past glamour and made people scared of Miami once again.

[citywatch]

I was watching a vid of a real estate broker yesterday...a guy of korean descent....who said when the riots in LA broke out in 1992, he was driving through the middle of it. He wondered how that would affect his business. He said it didn't.

Then two yrs later, in 1994, when the big quake struck LA, he again wondered how his business would be hurt. Again, he said it didn't. Or not as much as he feared.

I just read that cold weather Toronto is right now attracting more ppl than almost any other city in North america. NYC has a larger population in 2022 than it ever has had, including over 40 yrs ago....that's when during the era of mayor david dinkins & ed Koch, millions of ppl moved away from that city.

Whether it's climate, culture, history, economics or demographics, nothing should be assumed or treated as a given, for either good or bad.

[craigs]

People saying Southern California water temps are so cold right now that you need a wetsuit are tripping. I just checked the water temperature at Newport Beach and it's 67 degrees. Farther south at La Jolla, the water is 71 degrees. What kind of snowflake needs a wetsuit to go into water like that?

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It seems like boilerplate mass market adult American tourism to me. Ocean Drive feels like the Vegas strip or Times Square.

Huntington Beach meets Vegas Strip, but more downmarket. Maybe more like Lake Havasu meets Fremont Street.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by craigs

People saying Southern California water temps are so cold right now that you need a wetsuit are tripping. I just checked the water temperature at Newport Beach and it's 67 degrees. Farther south at La Jolla, the water is 71 degrees. What kind of snowflake needs a wetsuit to go into water like that?

Are you referring to me?

[proghousehead]

Originally Posted by craigs

People saying Southern California water temps are so cold right now that you need a wetsuit are tripping. I just checked the water temperature at Newport Beach and it's 67 degrees. Farther south at La Jolla, the water is 71 degrees. What kind of snowflake needs a wetsuit to go into water like that?

Snowflake? Oh, the irony.

Self awareness doesn’t exist much anymore, eh?

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by craigs

People saying Southern California water temps are so cold right now that you need a wetsuit are tripping. I just checked the water temperature at Newport Beach and it's 67 degrees. Farther south at La Jolla, the water is 71 degrees. What kind of snowflake needs a wetsuit to go into water like that?

Today would have been too cold to go swimming with a high of 70 in Santa Monica. But about a week ago when it was over 80 at some beaches and no marine layer, those water temps would be perfect for taking a dip. People specifically go to the beach to escape the heat. The cold water is a blessing during those summer heat waves. But I also understand why snowbirds fleeing northern winters would prefer Florida beaches.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

Snowflake? Oh, the irony.

Self awareness doesn’t exist much anymore, eh?

Pfft, all those surfers wearing wetsuits. Such tripping, much snowflake.

[citywatch]

the cooler water off coastal LA both lessens its med type resort appeal but also is a blessing for ppl...like me...who don't want the weather to be warmer & muggier than ideal.

I recall when I lived near the coast, however, the lack of really warm days spoiled some of the enjoyment I'd otherwise have with my backyard swimming pool. But that's also why areas like santa monica, hermosa bch, malibu have built in natural air conditioning & are one of the more comfortable climates in the US & world.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Pfft, all those surfers wearing wetsuits. Such tripping, much snowflake.

Surfers are out on the water all day. You said a wetsuit was needed to go swimming in California. That's definitely some snowflake shit.

[SIGSEGV]

pfft, the Pacific is warm compared to Lake Tahoe in June

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

pfft, the Pacific is warm compared to Lake Tahoe in June

I hear there are a lot of snowflakes up there.

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by craigs

People saying Southern California water temps are so cold right now that you need a wetsuit are tripping. I just checked the water temperature at Newport Beach and it's 67 degrees. Farther south at La Jolla, the water is 71 degrees. What kind of snowflake needs a wetsuit to go into water like that?

The Pacific waters are very cool in SoCal, frigid north of Pt. Conception in CenCal and even more frigid in NorCal. In SoCal in summer wetsuits are unnecessary, although it takes a few minutes to not feel cold. Some areas like La Jolla Cove that you mention warm up by mid summer to feel pleasant right away. North of Pt. Conception requires wetsuits for all but the hardiest swimmers and surfers imho.

California is also white shark territory, so never swim alone, especially at dusk and dawn. In SoCal the white sharks are mostly juveniles under 10 feet, and they are generally not interested in people. Once in a while you get some big mommas and poppas that might reach 18-20 feet that do put people on the menu, and there have been fatal and serious attacks rarely, but mostly the big adults that bite humans are north of Pt. Conception, or around the northern Channel Islands in SoCal (and Farallon Islands in NorCal) where there are lots of seals. In most cases, it appears that the shark thinks you are a seal. Often they spit you out after a bite. But a big adult almost as big as Jaws can kill you with a bite.