Where is the best location for the new Flames arena?

[bt04ku]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Am I missing something or isn't Vic Park/Stampede Station just one line? (north/south)

I was talking about the 4th 10th location. City Hall is on both lines and would be the quickest walk to an arena there (slightly further than Vic Park to the Dome is now).

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Why? Very few markets can support stadiums that big, and it's showing in the trend of newly constructed stadium size:

http://stadiumdb.com/constructions

A covered stadium is also an attendance killer.

Lots of people will show up for a game on a nice summer day that would never bother otherwise.

The experience of a covered stadium is pretty crappy. A retractable roof would be ideal for our climate.

Open is the way to go, and while a retractable roof is nice, any sort of roof would really hurt expansion capacity for the rare events when you would want more people.

A 35,000 seat stadium that was designed to allow 'easy' expansion to 55,000 for the Grey Cup (or World Cup) and be more susceptible to the elements to me is better than deciding to split the difference and go with a 40-45,000 seat stadium because expanding it would be too difficult. Or a 35,000 seater that can't expand to take advantage of those events.

[tomthumb2]

Wouldn't it be amazing to have something like this in our city? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0_dXGwvv4

(pipe dream, I know)

[VIce]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Am I missing something or isn't Vic Park/Stampede Station just one line? (north/south)

Previously Victoria Park's third platform was used for NE-bound trains from Stampede Park. They would head to Olympic Plaza, and short-turn back to the NE (the driver would exit and switch ends). It would operate both for Flames games and during Stampede, although it's no longer used this way.

[technomad]

^ Jebus that's hot... nice find!

I'm saying BC Place sized stadium because we shouldn't just build this for Calgary now, this still needs to work in a Calgary of 2-3 million.

BC place was built at a time when GVA population was similar to where Calgary is at now.

Retractable roof? Sure, that works for me too.

I'm not hard set on a permanently covered roof, but let's be fair, winters are long and crappy, and a cover-able stadium could see much more use throughout the year than a purely open air one.

[DizzyEdge]

Permanent roof with LED screens displaying the sky above the stadium

[Spring2008]

Anybody have a map of the proposed West Village area?

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

Anybody have a map of the proposed West Village area?

This is from 2010:

http://postmediacalgaryherald.files....illage_arp.pdf

Start on page 45

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by *Stardust*

I realize there is a thread already for the new flames arena on this board, but I've noticed that people are pretty split on where the new arena should be located. I just wanted to take a poll to see what the consensus is? So the choice are West Village, Victoria Park/Stampede Grounds, or Other (please state where)

Until they become cup contenders soon, I would guess Quebec City.

;

[O-tacular]

Are you even serious? The Flames were in much rougher shape through the 90's and then you might have been able to make that point, but this is year one of a rebuild. Relax. The Flames aren't going anywhere.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by bt04ku

I was talking about the 4th 10th location. City Hall is on both lines and would be the quickest walk to an arena there (slightly further than Vic Park to the Dome is now).



Open is the way to go, and while a retractable roof is nice, any sort of roof would really hurt expansion capacity for the rare events when you would want more people.

A 35,000 seat stadium that was designed to allow 'easy' expansion to 55,000 for the Grey Cup (or World Cup) and be more susceptible to the elements to me is better than deciding to split the difference and go with a 40-45,000 seat stadium because expanding it would be too difficult. Or a 35,000 seater that can't expand to take advantage of those events.

One way to deal with that is to put all the permanent seats between the goal lines and leave the ends empty, or at least empty enough that you can erect temporary seats there for Grey Cups and other large events.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Wouldn't it be amazing to have something like this in our city? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0_dXGwvv4

(pipe dream, I know)

I think this would be a great starting point for thinking about our new complex. You could tie one of those high sides in to the C-Train station, and build it over Bow Trail and the tracks as much as possible. I think WV is a great place for this, and I think Stampede Grounds/Victoria Park is better suited for residential. It’s closer to downtown, EV, the Beltline. It doesn’t have the freeways, or the creosote. The freeways are a plus for a sports facility, otoh. Games are typically not held during rush hour, and those roads would be able to clear way the traffic after the games very well.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Allan83

I think this would be a great starting point for thinking about our new complex. You could tie one of those high sides in to the C-Train station, and build it over Bow Trail and the tracks as much as possible. I think WV is a great place for this, and I think Stampede Grounds/Victoria Park is better suited for residential. It’s closer to downtown, EV, the Beltline. It doesn’t have the freeways, or the creosote. The freeways are a plus for a sports facility, otoh. Games are typically not held during rush hour, and those roads would be able to clear way the traffic after the games very well.

You raise a good point that integration is key. Too often, stadiums areas become ghosttowns off season and between events.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

You raise a good point that integration is key. Too often, stadiums areas become ghosttowns off season and between events.

Stadiums never really generate the economic benefits they claim to by their boosters. Especially publicly financed ones. They more often relocate economic from within a city, in this case from the Stampede Grounds to the West Village. The stampede grounds will become just as much of a dead-zone as the West Village is now if the stadium moved.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't build them, but having the public sector on the hook for a large portion is a very bad idea with tenable economic benefits at best.

Whatever they decide, I really hope they integrate it better with the community. Something like the Bell Centre in MTL would be best. No seas of open parking lots that recreate the ghostly Stampede Grounds in another area of the city. That wouldn't be progress at all.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Stadiums never really generate the economic benefits they claim to by their boosters. Especially publicly financed ones. They more often relocate economic from within a city, in this case from the Stampede Grounds to the West Village. The stampede grounds will become just as much of a dead-zone as the West Village is now if the stadium moved.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't build them, but having the public sector on the hook for a large portion is a very bad idea with tenable economic benefits at best.

Whatever they decide, I really hope they integrate it better with the community. Something like the Bell Centre in MTL would be best. No seas of open parking lots that recreate the ghostly Stampede Grounds in another area of the city. That wouldn't be progress at all.

I agree MasterG. If the Flames actually end up owning that WV land, maybe they do something like this as well: http://tourdescanadiens.com/en/building/

[*Stardust*]

So I was just thinking...for someone who lives in the Beltline (like me), will this affect the value of my property to have the new arena relocated to the west end of Downtown? Having the saddledome so close by is a great selling feature.

[Chadillaccc]

Potential new Calgary Flames convertable arena.





.... annnnnnnd I just finished

[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Stadiums never really generate the economic benefits they claim to by their boosters. Especially publicly financed ones. They more often relocate economic from within a city, in this case from the Stampede Grounds to the West Village. The stampede grounds will become just as much of a dead-zone as the West Village is now if the stadium moved.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't build them, but having the public sector on the hook for a large portion is a very bad idea with tenable economic benefits at best

Don't think you have to worry about that. Heard Nenshi speak about the upcoming flames arena in a year end interview, and he made it perfectly clear he's willing to sit down and look at the offer but not interested in throwing public money to a privately owned enterprise. He also said the deal would look nothing like Edmonton's fiasco, calling there's a really bad one for the public.

I'm sure the private sector will come up with an innovative approach here, many other cities have.

[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Why? Very few markets can support stadiums that big, and it's showing in the trend of newly constructed stadium size:

http://stadiumdb.com/constructions

A covered stadium is also an attendance killer.

Lots of people will show up for a game on a nice summer day that would never bother otherwise.

The experience of a covered stadium is pretty crappy. A retractable roof would be ideal for our climate.

A retractable roof should definitely be something the ownership budgets for. Would allow for year round hosting of big events in an increasingly intenstional city with shaky weather. Can also see the opportunity for things like an MLS team here.

[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

This is from 2010:

http://postmediacalgaryherald.files....illage_arp.pdf

Start on page 45

Interesting, I wonder what the WV is aiming for residential population wise if they are going to go the stadium/arena route and given there's a lot of other inner city areas undergoing their own large scale redevelopments. The residential portion could be a slower build out here.

[You Need A Thneed]

To me, a permanently covered stadium is worse than an open air stadium. Any roof should be retractable.

Sitting inside on a beautiful summer day is worse than sitting outside in the cold.