Austin | 318 Colorado | ~450 Feet | 40 Floors | Proposed

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by We vs us

They’ve done that, I think. Offered OCH a ten or fifteen year lease. Something in that range.

I think it was 25 years. That's great and all but they should be able to incorporate the other two lgbtq businesses.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I think it was 25 years. That's great and all but they should be able to incorporate the other two lgbtq businesses.

Yes, 25 years.

OCH is the only LGBTQ business affected by this. Neon Grotto and Coconut Club are clearly gay friendly, but they aren't gay bars. At any rate, they are in some sort of discussions to do something for them that would be similar to what is being done for OCH. So in the end, it may be that none of these businesses will be displaced.

Also, it sounds like the planned restaurant space will be filled by a LGBTQ owned business. Lastly, the buildings will now only be partially demolished, not fully demolished.

I find it really hard to believe that a better outcome could be had by all of this. I'm a bit perplexed as to why there are still people who are opposed to it.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by paul78701

Yes, 25 years.

OCH is the only LGBTQ business affected by this. Neon Grotto and Coconut Club are clearly gay friendly, but they aren't gay bars. At any rate, they are in some sort of discussions to do something for them that would be similar to what is being done for OCH. So in the end, it may be that none of these businesses will be displaced.

Also, it sounds like the planned restaurant space will be filled by a LGBTQ owned business. Lastly, the buildings will now only be partially demolished, not fully demolished.

I find it really hard to believe that a better outcome could be had by all of this. I'm a bit perplexed as to why there are still people who are opposed to it.

Happy to tell you.
For me, while part of LGBTQ community, this is not about the gay bars. That was a last desperate attempt to hold on to some sense of community downtown. This is a cultural identity defining moment for Austin. This is a cultural district that is the last sliver of a past culture and life in Austin. Hell, we even have a store at the restaurant thats called "the warehouse district". ( Better change that) The last vestige of what was a "Mexican" neighborhood", then "Guy Town", then an early African- American club that then became Oilcans.... then the gay bar district. Yeah , a very small sliver of texture and depth left as a window. ( Architectural merit is often based on context not just design.) Yet.... all many people can somehow see is the need to accommodate developers and growth at all cost. That's what I don't see. Long time downtown resident here. Put my money where my mouth is long ago. So this is not some on-line "bigger is better boy game" for me. I support good design, smart use of space, AND building communities with historical depth. Not wholesale destruction for profit.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

Happy to tell you.
For me, while part of LGBTQ community, this is not about the gay bars. That was a last desperate attempt to hold on to some sense of community downtown. This is a cultural identity defining moment for Austin. This is a cultural district that is the last sliver of a past culture and life in Austin. Hell, we even have a store at the restaurant thats called "the warehouse district". ( Better change that) The last vestige of what was a "Mexican" neighborhood", then "Guy Town", then an early African- American club that then became Oilcans.... then the gay bar district. Yeah , a very small sliver of texture and depth left as a window. ( Architectural merit is often based on context not just design.) Yet.... all many people can somehow see is the need to accommodate developers and growth at all cost. That's what I don't see. Long time downtown resident here. Put my money where my mouth is long ago. So this is not some on-line "bigger is better boy game" for me. I support good design, smart use of space, AND building communities with historical depth. Not wholesale destruction for profit.

I hear you, but none of that is quite what I was referring to. What I was getting at was that, based on the realities of the moment, we're not likely to see a better deal to preserve some of what you're talking about.

Also, if these buildings were zoned historic and frozen in time, these businesses are almost guaranteed to be pushed out at some point. The market rate for downtown retail space is just going to continue to go up, regardless of whether or not these buildings are redeveloped. The only way that really wouldn't happen would be to not allow the property owner to receive the market leasing rate for their property. Doing that is untenable.

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by paul78701

I hear you, but none of that is quite what I was referring to. What I was getting at was that, based on the realities of the moment, we're not likely to see a better deal to preserve some of what you're talking about.

Also, if these buildings were zoned historic and frozen in time, these businesses are almost guaranteed to be pushed out at some point. The market rate for downtown retail space is just going to continue to go up, regardless of whether or not these buildings are redeveloped. The only way that really wouldn't happen would be to not allow the property owner to receive the market leasing rate for their property. Doing that is untenable.

You're still kind of missing the forest for the trees. This block is THE heart of the LGBT scene in Austin. 4th St is synonymous with gay bars. OCH may live on, but it sure won't be the same. Once this block goes, more are sure to follow and this area will just be boring high-rises built by some corporation. You guys on here really love to come and defend these developers. It feels like you guys want to see this area destroyed sometimes.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by chinchaaa

You're still kind of missing the forest for the trees. This block is THE heart of the LGBT scene in Austin. 4th St is synonymous with gay bars. OCH may live on, but it sure won't be the same. Once this block goes, more are sure to follow and this area will just be boring high-rises built by some corporation. You guys on here really love to come and defend these developers. It feels like you guys want to see this area destroyed sometimes.

I don't think I am. You seem to still be missing my point. There is little that can be done to stop this from being redeveloped. There is no way to preserve these places in amber. So I'm just being a realist.

The best way to get something out of this is to work with all parties involved and come to a compromise. I understand that's not what y'all want, but it's the best option available. Negotiating from an all or nothing stance is a sure fire way to get...nothing. (Especially when you have almost no leverage.) Getting nothing is clearly the worst outcome.

[Armybrat]

Nothing really remains the same in Austin. Things evolve.
I didn’t like it when the Armadillo World Headquarters took over the rollerskating rink venue in South Austin.
I was even more disappointed to see the Pig Stand and the Holiday House go out of business.
They were all special to me and my peers at the time and were a big part of our lives, but we moved on and adopted new things.

[chinchaaa]

Originally Posted by Armybrat

Nothing really remains the same in Austin. Things evolve.
I didn’t like it when the Armadillo World Headquarters took over the rollerskating rink venue in South Austin.
I was even more disappointed to see the Pig Stand and the Holiday House go out of business.
They were all special to me and my peers at the time and were a big part of our lives, but we moved on and adopted new things.

overall agree, but i don't think many old-timers here in austin have moved on from those days lol

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by paul78701

Also, if these buildings were zoned historic and frozen in time, these businesses are almost guaranteed to be pushed out at some point. The market rate for downtown retail space is just going to continue to go up, regardless of whether or not these buildings are redeveloped. The only way that really wouldn't happen would be to not allow the property owner to receive the market leasing rate for their property. Doing that is untenable.

Truth ^ The question that might be most appropriate is what is the best mechanism to preserve the culture because the architecture won't be preserved. In these emotional instances its best to remove yourself from the scenario and look at it from the outside in as a neutral 3rd party trying to achieve a specific goal.

[Sigaven]

It seems like with this plan, 4th street isn't really "going" anywhere, it's just going to look different. It will still be the center of gay bars in Austin and looks like it will be for a long time. Unless I'm missing something.

[SproutingTowers]

So this whole block will be transformed?

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by SproutingTowers

So this whole block will be transformed?

This project doesn't affect the buildings west of Sellers.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by The ATX

This project doesn't affect the buildings west of Sellers.

Just move that blue box a little closer to the front facades of those one story brick buildings, and spruce them up a bit.

[DougRockstead]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I think it was 25 years. That's great and all but they should be able to incorporate the other two lgbtq businesses.

There are a lot of old business that have been in place for over 25 years and they get bumped in order to continue growth and progress in this city.

I remember people makiing a stink about Las Mananitas getting torn down after 26 years on Congress Ave. Nobody on this list cared. We all wanted to see the JW Marriott.

My second oldest son worked at Oil Can Harry's for a few years. (He's now 29 and lives in Chicago working as a personal trainer).

We aren't talking about a site like Greenwich Village's Stonewall Inn that has historical significance due to the riots and police.

We are talking about bars. Many bars have closed down over the years.

If they decided to convert 6th street to high-rises you wouln't hear a peep out of me. Let's do it. Or my favorite bar (Cedar Street). Progress happens

I am disappointed this building is essentially dead. I think what you wlll see down the road is a different developer slapping a high rise on that site and a less sympathetic city council approving it. AAAAnnnnddd... no accmmodations for OCH.

Just my stupid opinion.


https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...oryId=13881484

[papertowelroll]

Originally Posted by DougRockstead

There are a lot of old business that have been in place for over 25 years and they get bumped in order to continue growth and progress in this city.

I remember people makiing a stink about Las Mananitas getting torn down after 26 years on Congress Ave. Nobody on this list cared. We all wanted to see the JW Marriott.

My second oldest son worked at Oil Can Harry's for a few years. (He's now 29 and lives in Chicago working as a personal trainer).

We aren't talking about a site like Greenwich Village's Stonewall Inn that has historical significance due to the riots and police.

We are talking about bars. Many bars have closed down over the years.

If they decided to convert 6th street to high-rises you wouln't hear a peep out of me. Let's do it. Or my favorite bar (Cedar Street). Progress happens

I am disappointed this building is essentially dead. I think what you wlll see down the road is a different developer slapping a high rise on that site and a less sympathetic city council approving it. AAAAnnnnddd... no accmmodations for OCH.

Just my stupid opinion.


https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...oryId=13881484

This building is dead? I never heard a final outcome about this...

Personally, I don't care so much about preserving specific institutions as I do preserving nightlife in general. I'd like to see the place have real nightlife venues incorporated, not just upscale restaurants like every other building.

[The ATX]

Demo permit filed today:

https://abc.austintexas.gov/public-s...pertyrsn=91544

[Urbannizer]

OCH temporary location: 315 Lavaca St

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...owntown-tower/

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by Urbannizer

OCH temporary location: 315 Lavaca St

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...owntown-tower/

Wow that's awesome.

Maybe they'll get to stay because i've always thought that the Riley looked like an awesome club space.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

Wow that's awesome.

Maybe they'll get to stay because i've always thought that the Riley looked like an awesome club space.

I agree 100%. In fact I was shocked that they did not incorporate any sort of nightlife venue when they rebuilt it. Such a waste for that space to only be for private events. Hopefully this means there will be going forward even after OCH moves into it's new digs..

[Urbannizer]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I agree 100%. In fact I was shocked that they did not incorporate any sort of nightlife venue when they rebuilt it. Such a waste for that space to only be for private events. Hopefully this means there will be going forward even after OCH moves into it's new digs..

I think I’ve only ever seen it in use a handful of times.

How about this- Coconut Club & Neon Grotto can reopen here once OCH gets their new spot. Now that would be the the perfect scenario.