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  #441  
Old Posted May 23, 2022, 8:59 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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How many conventions have y'all been to? I don't see the sun for 5 days most the time we attend one.
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  #442  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 3:53 PM
drummer drummer is offline
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I would have absolutely no issues attending an underground convention if it meant for better development above.
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  #443  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 4:59 PM
H2O H2O is offline
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
How many conventions have y'all been to? I don't see the sun for 5 days most the time we attend one.
You must go to boring conventions. My favorite ones are full of tours around the host city (because that is what the conventions are about). In which case, it doesn't much matter what the convention hall is like, except that I highly value ones that are urban and well integrated into the city. Our CC is already better for that than most, but this rebuild has the potential to be a major upgrade if they get the details right.
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  #444  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 7:19 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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You must go to boring conventions. My favorite ones are full of tours around the host city (because that is what the conventions are about). In which case, it doesn't much matter what the convention hall is like, except that I highly value ones that are urban and well integrated into the city. Our CC is already better for that than most, but this rebuild has the potential to be a major upgrade if they get the details right.
I mean - I go to Tokyo, Columbus, Indianapolis, New York, Nuremberg, Birmingham, Essen Germany (ok, terrible place) and Cannes....

but in every one of those cases the convention hall is completely windowless - and the time that is "fun" is outside of hall hours at dinners and networking.
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  #445  
Old Posted May 24, 2022, 9:24 PM
Speculator Speculator is offline
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
I mean - I go to Tokyo, Columbus, Indianapolis, New York, Nuremberg, Birmingham, Essen Germany (ok, terrible place) and Cannes....

but in every one of those cases the convention hall is completely windowless - and the time that is "fun" is outside of hall hours at dinners and networking.
Don't forget all the convention halls in Vegas.
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  #446  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 11:35 AM
Novacek Novacek is offline
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It's a little underwhelming. I think they should go another floor higher to create even more space.
Sounds like they’re designing for potential vertical expansion
“We are making sure as we design the facility that there will be opportunities to expand vertically in the future.”

https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...enter-project/
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  #447  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 8:20 PM
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kingkirbythe.... kingkirbythe.... is offline
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Ex-San Antonio City Manager Sheryl Sculley pushing another convention center project

Given her San Antonio track record, Sculley's enthusiasm for a $1.2 billion-plus convention center expansion in Austin isn't surprising — it's just par for the course.

https://www.sacurrent.com/news/citys...oject-29347439

For Current readers who wonder whatever became of former San Antonio City Manager Sheryl Sculley, she appears to be pleasantly ensconced in Austin, offering advice.

Her name came up as nonprofit news organization the Austin Monitor recently reported on a session organized by that city's chapter of the Urban Land Institute, the national organization of developers and real estate types. The topic? A proposed expansion of the Austin Convention Center. This expansion isn't a modest proposition either — it bears an estimated price tag between $1.2 and $1.5 billion and would involve literally tearing down and rebuilding the city's existing venue. Bigger, of course.

Despite the challenges ahead, the ULI panelists were entirely upbeat and enthusiastic about the city's prospects, the Austin Monitor reports. Tom Noonan, CEO of Visit Austin, argued that the city's existing center ranked just 48th-largest in the nation, "putting it well behind facilities in smaller and less economically active cities." And Noonan went on to contend that the resulting boom in hotel business and city hotel tax revenue would benefit local arts groups and the larger community — a way "to fund the things Austinites love."

For Sculley the promise of a far bigger convention center would go well beyond just more conventions and visitors, according to the report. During the session, she stressed the "public-private partnership" component of the expansion and its potential for substantial new private development downtown.

"If I can be brutally honest, I haven't met a city that was great at retail, and so there would have to be experts that would assist the city in any kind of private-sector development associated with the project," she said.

Sculley's enthusiasm for big downtown projects, and perhaps her brutal honesty as well, are rooted in a long personal history. Well before she arrived in San Antonio, she built her reputation as a manager by heading up the effort to expand Phoenix's convention center in the late 1990s. Her promises, in memo after memo, were grand.

City staffers argued that the existing center only ranked 60th-largest in the county even though Phoenix was the sixth largest city. A consultant study promised that a larger venue would boost the city's convention business by 50% to 75%. Over and over, Sculley stressed that the expansion would involve no new taxes. Instead, it could be paid for with existing visitor taxes and a potential $300 million commitment from the state.

Sculley did much of the pitching to the Arizona Legislature herself, armed with a 2002 presentation that stressed "There is No Status Quo!" At stake were "$32 million in annual state tax revenues" and "12,000 jobs," according to her presentation. It proved enough to get the state government to commit $300 million to the project.

But a tripled-in-size convention center simply couldn't stand alone. What Phoenix also needed, just like San Antonio, was a 1,000-room hotel next door.

The effort to get a private developer to build the big new "headquarters hotel" proved just as fruitless in Phoenix and as it did in San Antonio. So, Phoenix financed and built the new

Sheraton-branded hotel itself with a city bond issue. Clearly, under Sculley's guidance, the city was poised to emerge as the next great convention destination in the country.

Except that it didn't.

A final study from Ernst & Young in 2003 forecast that the grand new center would welcome 376,861 annual convention delegates, up from the 166,000 of 1996 and 193,000 in 1997. But the count of convention attendees was just 156,000 in fiscal 2011 and 233,000 the next year.

Without a boom in convention business, the new Sheraton — later dubbed the "Sherylton" by city hall staffers in San Antonio — struggled to pay off its debt and required continuing tax revenue support from the city.

Finally, in 2017, Phoenix sold off the Sherylton to a private owner, taking a significant financial loss.

The Phoenix experience did little to reshape public policy in San Antonio after Sculley's arrival as city manager in 2005.

Armed with a bunch of consultant studies, Mayor Julián Castro's push for the "Decade of Downtown" and the renewal of Hemisfair, San Antonio sold $550 million in bonds in 2012 to fund yet another expansion of the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center.

In other words, Sheryl Sculley's enthusiasm for a $1.2 billion-plus convention center expansion in Austin isn't surprising — it's just par for the course.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have questions. Do city manager types learn from the success, or failure, of the projects they supported and promoted? Is there any way to hold them accountable for the grand promises — such as Phoenix's 12,000 jobs — that aren't realized?

And, ultimately, who do they really serve? Is it the broad community of city residents and taxpayers? Or is it a narrow constituency of developers, downtown property owners and hospitality industry boosters, all in search of the next grand public project?
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  #448  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 8:29 PM
Novacek Novacek is offline
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythe.... View Post
Ex-San Antonio City Manager Sheryl Sculley pushing another convention center project

Given her San Antonio track record, Sculley's enthusiasm for a $1.2 billion-plus convention center expansion in Austin isn't surprising — it's just par for the course.

https://www.sacurrent.com/news/citys...oject-29347439

For Current readers who wonder whatever became of former San Antonio City Manager Sheryl Sculley, she appears to be pleasantly ensconced in Austin, offering advice.

Her name came up as nonprofit news organization the Austin Monitor recently reported on a session organized by that city's chapter of the Urban Land Institute, the national organization of developers and real estate types. The topic? A proposed expansion of the Austin Convention Center. This expansion isn't a modest proposition either — it bears an estimated price tag between $1.2 and $1.5 billion and would involve literally tearing down and rebuilding the city's existing venue. Bigger, of course.

Despite the challenges ahead, the ULI panelists were entirely upbeat and enthusiastic about the city's prospects, the Austin Monitor reports. Tom Noonan, CEO of Visit Austin, argued that the city's existing center ranked just 48th-largest in the nation, "putting it well behind facilities in smaller and less economically active cities." And Noonan went on to contend that the resulting boom in hotel business and city hotel tax revenue would benefit local arts groups and the larger community — a way "to fund the things Austinites love."

For Sculley the promise of a far bigger convention center would go well beyond just more conventions and visitors, according to the report. During the session, she stressed the "public-private partnership" component of the expansion and its potential for substantial new private development downtown.

"If I can be brutally honest, I haven't met a city that was great at retail, and so there would have to be experts that would assist the city in any kind of private-sector development associated with the project," she said.

Sculley's enthusiasm for big downtown projects, and perhaps her brutal honesty as well, are rooted in a long personal history. Well before she arrived in San Antonio, she built her reputation as a manager by heading up the effort to expand Phoenix's convention center in the late 1990s. Her promises, in memo after memo, were grand.

City staffers argued that the existing center only ranked 60th-largest in the county even though Phoenix was the sixth largest city. A consultant study promised that a larger venue would boost the city's convention business by 50% to 75%. Over and over, Sculley stressed that the expansion would involve no new taxes. Instead, it could be paid for with existing visitor taxes and a potential $300 million commitment from the state.

Sculley did much of the pitching to the Arizona Legislature herself, armed with a 2002 presentation that stressed "There is No Status Quo!" At stake were "$32 million in annual state tax revenues" and "12,000 jobs," according to her presentation. It proved enough to get the state government to commit $300 million to the project.

But a tripled-in-size convention center simply couldn't stand alone. What Phoenix also needed, just like San Antonio, was a 1,000-room hotel next door.

The effort to get a private developer to build the big new "headquarters hotel" proved just as fruitless in Phoenix and as it did in San Antonio. So, Phoenix financed and built the new

Sheraton-branded hotel itself with a city bond issue. Clearly, under Sculley's guidance, the city was poised to emerge as the next great convention destination in the country.

Except that it didn't.

A final study from Ernst & Young in 2003 forecast that the grand new center would welcome 376,861 annual convention delegates, up from the 166,000 of 1996 and 193,000 in 1997. But the count of convention attendees was just 156,000 in fiscal 2011 and 233,000 the next year.

Without a boom in convention business, the new Sheraton — later dubbed the "Sherylton" by city hall staffers in San Antonio — struggled to pay off its debt and required continuing tax revenue support from the city.

Finally, in 2017, Phoenix sold off the Sherylton to a private owner, taking a significant financial loss.

The Phoenix experience did little to reshape public policy in San Antonio after Sculley's arrival as city manager in 2005.

Armed with a bunch of consultant studies, Mayor Julián Castro's push for the "Decade of Downtown" and the renewal of Hemisfair, San Antonio sold $550 million in bonds in 2012 to fund yet another expansion of the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center.

In other words, Sheryl Sculley's enthusiasm for a $1.2 billion-plus convention center expansion in Austin isn't surprising — it's just par for the course.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't have questions. Do city manager types learn from the success, or failure, of the projects they supported and promoted? Is there any way to hold them accountable for the grand promises — such as Phoenix's 12,000 jobs — that aren't realized?

And, ultimately, who do they really serve? Is it the broad community of city residents and taxpayers? Or is it a narrow constituency of developers, downtown property owners and hospitality industry boosters, all in search of the next grand public project?
No data more recent than 2012 for Phoenix? No data at all regarding the SA expansion? No job data for Phoenix, despite later claiming it as unrealized.

edit/add: So yeah, this reads like a total hit piece.

it mentions Phoenix had 193k in 1997, but neglects to mention that it was down to 100k in 2003. A trend the expansion was no doubt intended to help reverse.

FWIW the convention center itself claims a significant increase in attendance (compared to 2003/04/05 numbers), up to 316k by 2019.

https://www.azauditor.gov/sites/defa...uly16_2020.pdf

Last edited by Novacek; Jul 19, 2022 at 8:55 PM.
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  #449  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 9:27 PM
ToTheSky ToTheSky is offline
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No data more recent than 2012 for Phoenix? No data at all regarding the SA expansion? No job data for Phoenix, despite later claiming it as unrealized.
Not only that, but the writer is not comparing an apple to an apple, to an apple. Phoenix may have been sixth largest city in the country in 2000, but damn, it's in the middle of the freakin' desert. I'll elaborate but first, a caveat.

To anyone reading this who happens to be from Phoenix, I'm not knocking you or the city itself. I'm sure Phoenix is quite nice. I've never been there and do have it on a "to do" list someday, but I'm struggling to find something major in Phoenix itself that would attract me to visit, and visit repeatedly. Yes Sedona and other parts of Arizona are picturesque, and there's the Grand Canyon, which is only a 3 hour and 40 minute drive from Phoenix. Phoenix does have some tech biz along with the commensurate banks, medical and government jobs you'd expect along with business heavyweights like Boeing, Freeport Mc-Moran and US Airways. There are also universities, hi-end spas, golf courses and a desert botanical garden, all great to have in a large city.

What I don't see happening in Phoenix and what separates Austin from a lot of other cities are major city centric draws like those that bring people to Austin. I don't see ACL and SXSW sized events being promoted in Phoenix. I don't see an F1 race there any longer after a brief two year stint from 1989 to 1991. I may be wrong, but I don't think people refer to Phoenix as the "live ___ capital" of anything.

Austin has in spite of its torrid growth of the past couple of decades still retained a good portion of its live music reputation. We're a burgeoning foodie town now though we're not (as Stooge mentioned) at a 2 or 3 star Michelin rated echelon yet. We've already discussed the Austin versus SA night life comparison in another thread but I'd wager you could substitute Phoenix interchangeably in that conversation with SA as the similarities are probably very close.

My point is that to have a successful convention center, a city needs more going for it than sheer size alone. This article's writer seems to have forgotten or not realized that. Austin's 1.2 billion dollar endeavor is necessary because we already know that we don't have enough space to land the bigger fish of the convention world. We have TWO 1000 room hotels next to and within a few blocks on our convention center. Hotel rooms aren't our problem. Many of the conventions we'd love to land or used to host (think Dell) are too big or have outgrown our digs. It's not that we're throwing a bunch of money into a convention center and large hotel then "hoping" the conventions come. We're beyond capacity to host and know we're missing out of conventions that either wanted to stay or come here but can't because we don't have that capacity.

I find it interesting that so many articles questioning everything related to Austin's status come out in San Antonio publications. So SA's former city manager is putting her two cents in here in Austin. Don't be haters, SA. I don't think we in Austin are competing with you. We're two very very different cities a relative stones throw from each other, and in the same State. That's about the extent of our commonality.

End of rant!
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  #450  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 11:33 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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Man. What an awful piece. Just dripping with foregone conclusions about how business is done, and how the Fat Cats are in bed with Elected Officials. I hate it.

Also, tarring the Austin project with an unrelated pseudo-failure that happened 20 years ago in another city and state? WTF, people? It has less than nothing to do with our situation. Gah. Stupidity reigns supreme.
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  #451  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 6:07 AM
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Yea I'm over the Austin bashing by our neighbors down the street. There are more important things to focus on than what we are up to here in Austin. Maybe start writing articles promoting more collaboration between the two cities in benefit of our region rather than bad mouthing Austin.
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  #452  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 2:32 PM
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Not only that, but the writer is not comparing an apple to an apple, to an apple. Phoenix may have been sixth largest city in the country in 2000, but damn, it's in the middle of the freakin' desert. I'll elaborate but first, a caveat.

To anyone reading this who happens to be from Phoenix, I'm not knocking you or the city itself. I'm sure Phoenix is quite nice. I've never been there and do have it on a "to do" list someday, but I'm struggling to find something major in Phoenix itself that would attract me to visit, and visit repeatedly. Yes Sedona and other parts of Arizona are picturesque, and there's the Grand Canyon, which is only a 3 hour and 40 minute drive from Phoenix. Phoenix does have some tech biz along with the commensurate banks, medical and government jobs you'd expect along with business heavyweights like Boeing, Freeport Mc-Moran and US Airways. There are also universities, hi-end spas, golf courses and a desert botanical garden, all great to have in a large city.

What I don't see happening in Phoenix and what separates Austin from a lot of other cities are major city centric draws like those that bring people to Austin. I don't see ACL and SXSW sized events being promoted in Phoenix. I don't see an F1 race there any longer after a brief two year stint from 1989 to 1991. I may be wrong, but I don't think people refer to Phoenix as the "live ___ capital" of anything.

Austin has in spite of its torrid growth of the past couple of decades still retained a good portion of its live music reputation. We're a burgeoning foodie town now though we're not (as Stooge mentioned) at a 2 or 3 star Michelin rated echelon yet. We've already discussed the Austin versus SA night life comparison in another thread but I'd wager you could substitute Phoenix interchangeably in that conversation with SA as the similarities are probably very close.

My point is that to have a successful convention center, a city needs more going for it than sheer size alone. This article's writer seems to have forgotten or not realized that. Austin's 1.2 billion dollar endeavor is necessary because we already know that we don't have enough space to land the bigger fish of the convention world. We have TWO 1000 room hotels next to and within a few blocks on our convention center. Hotel rooms aren't our problem. Many of the conventions we'd love to land or used to host (think Dell) are too big or have outgrown our digs. It's not that we're throwing a bunch of money into a convention center and large hotel then "hoping" the conventions come. We're beyond capacity to host and know we're missing out of conventions that either wanted to stay or come here but can't because we don't have that capacity.

I find it interesting that so many articles questioning everything related to Austin's status come out in San Antonio publications. So SA's former city manager is putting her two cents in here in Austin. Don't be haters, SA. I don't think we in Austin are competing with you. We're two very very different cities a relative stones throw from each other, and in the same State. That's about the extent of our commonality.

End of rant!
definitely a lot of things going on in phoenix that attract a lot of people. mostly centered around sports though
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  #453  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2022, 3:41 PM
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Eh, I think you guys are overblowing the “obsessed with Austin” angle. This is more of a focus on a former SA city manager who seems to have a love for pushing big convention center projects.

Sidebar: as much I as love the austin skyline, downtown at the street level isn’t really too dynamic. Maybe it’ll eventually get there.

Last edited by Tornado; Jul 31, 2022 at 6:10 PM. Reason: Typos
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  #454  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2022, 6:50 PM
drummer drummer is offline
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I was talking to a friend over a beer downtown and we were talking about how big the convention center is - I made mention that they're looking to expand it somehow, but they keep hitting roadblocks, etc. He had an idea totally out of left field, and we laughed it off, but I figured I'd post it here anyway because it's interesting even if not practical:

Build the CC over a sunken I-35 in an area other than where the deck is hoped for / planned.

Where? No clue. Pros? Yes, some. Cons? Many. Fun idea nonetheless.
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  #455  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2022, 8:18 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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I was talking to a friend over a beer downtown and we were talking about how big the convention center is - I made mention that they're looking to expand it somehow, but they keep hitting roadblocks, etc. He had an idea totally out of left field, and we laughed it off, but I figured I'd post it here anyway because it's interesting even if not practical:

Build the CC over a sunken I-35 in an area other than where the deck is hoped for / planned.

Where? No clue. Pros? Yes, some. Cons? Many. Fun idea nonetheless.
Very fun idea. I would love the synergy between the park and the convention center. There’s not enough space sadly, being a narrow strip of land, especially if you don’t take away any of the potential park.

My favored idea has been tossed around in various versions through this process, but I would take it further:

Demolish the entire existing structure and take a short-term loss on trade for long-term gain. Go completely subterranean throughout four of the six blocks for four levels, with meeting and event space in each block on each of those first three levels and back-end use on the lowest level.

On the fifth block, dedicate it to a sunken plaza on level -1 adjacent to Brush Square, with direct access to both the street level and the light rail stations, and convention center to the east and south, with two levels of meeting use underneath that and a third of back-end.

On one of the four blocks fully dedicated to event and meeting space (the block facing Palm Park), go up three floors with the main entry on the first floor, food hall on the second floor, additional space on the third and outdoor amenities on the roof.

On the remaining block (where Waller Creek interrupts the space), use this as a grand entrance pedestrian and ride share drop off space fully interacting with the creek, with no underground anything.

Have back-end be accessible from the back side of the above block and structure with access from short extensions of 2nd and 3rd past Trinity, connected via Red River.

On the three blocks whose above ground space I have not yet spoken for, partner with hotel developers and build out the convention district with more hotels. Direct access to the CC is a decent selling point.

On the parking garage block, I’d also start new and go down three levels and go up three levels. Do the same on the block to the north of that, and incorporate culinary and retail spaces fronting the length of the Sabine Street Promenade. All originally parking, designed in a way that can be retrofitted into meeting and event space and built on top of. When we get around to expanding the convention center, we would have already planned ahead.

I would also heavily lean on the developer of the Moonshine Grill block to have at least one level of underground meeting space that can be connected through from the parking garage to the CC proper.

Finally, reconnect the remainder of the grid with pedestrian only streets.

By doing all of this we’d be future-proofing, we’d be creating maximum synergy between the CC and all neighboring parks and districts and massively expanding our convention center hotel options:

Brush Square? Check.
Sunken Plaza (doubles as fire evac)? Check.
Palm Park? Check.
Deck Park? Check.
Rainey? Check.
2nd? Check.
4th? Check.
6th? Check.
Waller Creek? Check.
Sabine Street? Check.
Red River? Check.
Light/Commuter Rail? Check.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Oct 10, 2022 at 9:13 PM.
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  #456  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2022, 9:07 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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The Kansas City Convention Center is actually built across 670, one of the major highways through their CBD.

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  #457  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2022, 9:51 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Upon further thought:

Stage 1.
Step 1. Acquire the parcels north and south of the parking garage.
Step 2. Demolish the parking garage.
Step 3. Build two levels of below grade parking and two levels of above ground meeting and event space on each block connected with two sky-bridges, each engineered for construction of a high-rise above each block.
Step 4. Market each of the three blocks to a developer for the construction of a high rise.

Stage 2.
Step 1. Demolish the existing convention center.
Step 2. Build two levels below grade of event and meeting space throughout (except the block adjacent to Brush Square) with a back-end level beneath them, each engineered for construction of a high-rise above each block.
Step 3. Construct a sunken plaza on the block adjacent to Brush Square, with access to a food court, event and meeting space, the light and commuter rail stations, and Brush Park.
Step 4a. Construct a six story building on the block adjacent to Palm Park, to be used as the main entry and back-end loading facility, with office space for all related city functions above, and a rooftop music venue.
Step 4b. Main entryway should engage with both Waller Creek to the south and Palm Park to the east, back-end loading should engage with Red River to the west, and vehicle drop off should be from 3rd to the north.
Step 4c. Construct a sunken creek plaza around Waller Creek that connects the space with the entrance.
Step 5a. Extend 3rd over the new convention center and connecting to I-35, with public two way traffic.
Step 5b. Extend 2nd over the new convention center from the West, with a cul-de-sac as you approach Waller Creek (not connecting to Red River), service vehicle only two way traffic.
Step 5c. Extend Red River over the new convention center, pedestrian only between Cesar Chavez and 2nd, service vehicles only between 2nd and 3rd, and pedestrian only between 3rd and 4th.
Step 6. Market each of the remaining three blocks to a developer for the construction of a high rise.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #458  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2022, 10:59 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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The Kansas City Convention Center is actually built across 670, one of the major highways through their CBD.

I just don’t see any way proposing the capland be integrated into a convention center, let alone replacing the capland entirely. It’d be too easily panned as creating an even more imposing barrier between the east side and downtown. I think we are likely stuck working within the convention center footprint we have, but that can easily be connected to pretty much all of downtown’s amenities save for the Capitol pretty seamlessly given some thought and ingenuity.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #459  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2022, 2:20 AM
austin242 austin242 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 591
How about a new convention center near the domain. Also the city needs to make a real master plan out there. A masterplan that includes every park, hospital, church, train station, market, school, etc. I wanna see something that works. The domain does not work. It's a weird place. Mueller is a way better example. Mueller 2.0 but with less height restrictions and a lot more density.
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  #460  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2022, 8:08 AM
chinchaaa chinchaaa is online now
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin242 View Post
How about a new convention center near the domain. Also the city needs to make a real master plan out there. A masterplan that includes every park, hospital, church, train station, market, school, etc. I wanna see something that works. The domain does not work. It's a weird place. Mueller is a way better example. Mueller 2.0 but with less height restrictions and a lot more density.
it's too far from the airport and city center. there's just not enough up there to make it an enticing convention destination. doesn't make sense to force people up there.
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