PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[summersm343]

NY developer plans two warehouses at former Inquirer printing plant site in Upper Merion

Read/view more here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...arehouses.html

[summersm343]

Philadelphia developer plans $8M list price for first homes built on Nuns' Beach in Stone Harbor

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...new-build.html

[summersm343]

More details revealed about Eataly marketplace planned for King of Prussia Mall

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...f-prussia.html

[UrbanRevival]

For those who interested in SEPTA ridership trends, it's worth noting that the APTA transit dashboard shows the agency passed the 4 million trips threshold for the first time since COVID last week.

That's still approximately 2/3 of pre-pandemic levels, but a good milestone nonetheless and sign that slow-and-steady recovery is continuing.

https://transitapp.com/APTA

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

For those who interested in SEPTA ridership trends, it's worth noting that the APTA transit dashboard shows the agency passed the 4 million trips threshold for the first time since COVID last week.

That's still approximately 2/3 of pre-pandemic levels, but a good milestone nonetheless and sign that slow-and-steady recovery is continuing.

https://transitapp.com/APTA

SEPTA has no metric for measuring fare evasion on the subways/busses/trolleys. I think most people riding daily could tell you anecdotally that ridership is > 85% of what it was pre-COVID. It’s just that no one’s paying.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

SEPTA has no metric for measuring fare evasion on the subways/busses/trolleys. I think most people riding daily could tell you anecdotally that ridership is > 85% of what it was pre-COVID. It’s just that no one’s paying.

Excellent point--wasn't aware of how widespread fare evasion is. Not great obviously for revenue, but at least it bodes well for demand.

[ColdJay64]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

Excellent point--wasn't aware of how widespread fare evasion is. Not great obviously for revenue, but at least it bodes well for demand.

I wonder when they'll pilot the "un-jumpable" turnstiles. I'm not even sure why they need to, it seems like they could just look at their effectiveness in other transit systems. Instead it will probably take a decade or more for them to actually be implemented throughout the system.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

SEPTA has no metric for measuring fare evasion on the subways/busses/trolleys. I think most people riding daily could tell you anecdotally that ridership is > 85% of what it was pre-COVID. It’s just that no one’s paying.

That's primarily a subway issue, its not equal across all modes and to say no one is paying is absurd obviously. There was a study done internally to attempt to get actual numbers. On the subway I believe they estimated the non paying customer count was as high as the low 20% range. It was lower on bus and trolley. I'm also not even sure if the ridership statistics being quoted are based on paid fares so it may not be as off base as you think- especially when RR still isn't running pre COVID levels of service.

[summersm343]

Yeah, turnstile jumping is definitely mainly a subway issue. Kinda hard to skip fare on the regional rail unless you get on one stop and off the next quickly before they check tickets. Still, wish SEPTA would get moving quickly on these turnstiles that are supposed to be impossible to jump. It would definitely cut down on crime on the subways and the fentanyl zombies we see walking around places like Front Street in Fishtown and Market Street in Old City and Center City whom are more than likely jumping the turnstiles in Kensington and skipping fares.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I don't see the PM Mall closing, it's quite successful right now for everything facing outside of the enclosed mall and Honeygrow is under construction right now next to Shake Shack so there is still momentum. If the inside closes LLD will still be accessible (or a standalone spot will be built) and I assume they will just reconfigure the whole property into a town center-ish place (and I am sure part of the reason why the owners are still pushing for the apartments on the property).

But in a hypothetical could LLD move to KOP? Sure, anything would be possible but some blocks [pun intended] would be having a space big enough, rent prices, PM Mall giving them incentives to stay (it is still a big draw and I have friends that trek from pretty far to bring the kids), etc.

The Plymouth Meeting Mall was THE MALL back in the 70's. Friday night's there was wall to wall people. My mom took me there every Friday night. We'd eat mostly at The Plymouth Terrace Restaurant which was on the top floor of Strawbridge and Clothier. Some times we'd eat in the mall...York Steak House...Woolworth's...the restaurant in Lit Brothers. It was a pretty fun time...but it came at the expense of Main Street in Norristown.

It's funny how KOP was not the place to be in those days...The Plaza was just okay. KOP stormed past Plymouth Meeting when The Court opened in 1980. It was all newer and glitzy....

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

NORRISTOWN — Norristown officials have seen a glimpse of the future in mixed use development on Main Street.

The property is currently in a conceptual phase, however, developers hope to include 140 residential “market rate” units atop 6,100 square feet of commercial space, according to municipal officials.

Representatives of the roughly $31 million project addressed members of the Norristown Municipal Council during a recent meeting to get preliminary feedback on their idea currently zoned in the town center district.

“Our basic view on Norristown is everyone knows the rents went up,” said property owner James Anderson, adding that “we have a real housing and cost issue.”

The property stretches from Main to Lafayette streets and used to operate as a Rite Aid, according to municipal officials.

Developers are aiming to attract “upwardly mobile single professionals” to live in a mixture of “borrowed light,” one-bedroom and two-bedroom apartments, according to Anderson, with rents expected at a “blended $1,900 per month.”

Offering less expensive housing, Anderson said that “the trade off is we need more density,” by producing “smaller units.”
https://www.timesherald.com/2023/10/...e-development/

Things like this could get me to move back to Norristown.

What has happened to the building that was supposed to go up on the empty lot on the NW corner of Main and Dekalb.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

For those who interested in SEPTA ridership trends, it's worth noting that the APTA transit dashboard shows the agency passed the 4 million trips threshold for the first time since COVID last week.

That's still approximately 2/3 of pre-pandemic levels, but a good milestone nonetheless and sign that slow-and-steady recovery is continuing.

https://transitapp.com/APTA

The Exton SEPTA station still has a lot of empty parking spaces on most weekdays.

When I went into the city two weeks ago on a Wednesday from Exton station, I'd say 50% of the parking spaces were filled. The parking lot on the outbound side (going to Harrisburg) was only half full and before Covid you would be lucky to find a few empty spots left after 8am. The overflow lot next to the onramp to the bypass is never used. I took the 7:03am inbound train to CC and the crowd on the platform was far less than you would have had on it before Covid. The express trains used to be local to Paoli and then express to 30th Street. It's now local to Wayne and then express to 30th Street.

[MyDadBuiltThat]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

The Plymouth Meeting Mall was THE MALL back in the 70's. Friday night's there was wall to wall people. My mom took me there every Friday night. We'd eat mostly at The Plymouth Terrace Restaurant which was on the top floor of Strawbridge and Clothier. Some times we'd eat in the mall...York Steak House...Woolworth's...the restaurant in Lit Brothers. It was a pretty fun time...but it came at the expense of Main Street in Norristown.

It's funny how KOP was not the place to be in those days...The Plaza was just okay. KOP stormed past Plymouth Meeting when The Court opened in 1980. It was all newer and glitzy....

Plymouth Meeting Mall was the only mall the the company owned out right so they used it as collateral for loans to fix up their malls with mortgages. Made them nice so they could meet their payments while totally ignoring Plymouth Meeting for years and letting it get really run down and outdated.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yeah, turnstile jumping is definitely mainly a subway issue. Kinda hard to skip fare on the regional rail unless you get on one stop and off the next quickly before they check tickets. Still, wish SEPTA would get moving quickly on these turnstiles that are supposed to be impossible to jump. It would definitely cut down on crime on the subways and the fentanyl zombies we see walking around places like Front Street in Fishtown and Market Street in Old City and Center City whom are more than likely jumping the turnstiles in Kensington and skipping fares.

I believe all they have committed to is a trial run at 13th street station, not a full rollout. In the meantime what you need is septa cops at major stations where this is known to be a problem for enforcement/deterrence. That said, its happening other places as well of course. I saw a video about MTA having an increase in evasion starting during pandemic.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yeah, turnstile jumping is definitely mainly a subway issue. Kinda hard to skip fare on the regional rail unless you get on one stop and off the next quickly before they check tickets. Still, wish SEPTA would get moving quickly on these turnstiles that are supposed to be impossible to jump. It would definitely cut down on crime on the subways and the fentanyl zombies we see walking around places like Front Street in Fishtown and Market Street in Old City and Center City whom are more than likely jumping the turnstiles in Kensington and skipping fares.

It’s not just the metro—it’s the busses and trolleys. Route G saw a tripling of ridership from 2,000 to 7,000 per day from 2022 to 2023 yet only saw revenues increase from $2.3M to $2.7M. That works out to only half of ridership paying the fare.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

It’s not just the metro—it’s the busses. Route G saw a tripling of ridership from 2,000 to 7,000 per day from 2022 to 2023 yet only saw revenues increase from $2.3M to $2.7M. That works out to only half of ridership paying the fare.

Any idea how so many people are skipping fares on the bus when the bus driver is there to ensure they pay when they first get on?

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

It’s not just the metro—it’s the busses and trolleys. Route G saw a tripling of ridership from 2,000 to 7,000 per day from 2022 to 2023 yet only saw revenues increase from $2.3M to $2.7M. That works out to only half of ridership paying the fare.

No it doesn't- seniors and school children don't pay so you cannot have a 1:1 correlation between revenue and ridership numbers. There is an internal document that examined the evasion based on best available data- I am telling you its like 13%-27% based on the mode and line. I think the MFL was the highest.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Any idea how so many people are skipping fares on the bus when the bus driver is there to ensure they pay when they first get on?

Bus drivers are not forced to confront riders about fares for safety reasons. At the end of the day there is a large honor system component to this. Operators can say something to a passenger to remind them to pay, but if they don't they are not authorized to tell them to get off the bus and many operators wouldn't even dare to force the issue considering the safety concerns. One issue they have is that students get free passes and give them (or have them taken by) to adults and then those people ride the subway or trolley for free and the students board buses daily without any passes. What is an operator going to do? The kids don't pay to ride in the first place so hassling them about not having a fare card makes little since. Ride a bus and you will see a third of the students board without a fare card.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by MyDadBuiltThat

Plymouth Meeting Mall was the only mall the the company owned out right so they used it as collateral for loans to fix up their malls with mortgages. Made them nice so they could meet their payments while totally ignoring Plymouth Meeting for years and letting it get really run down and outdated.

Plymouth has been a slow long decline. It really started when Lits closed at the one end. That end of the mall then was always deader for years...even after Hess's took over the spot. The busier end was always the Strawbridge's side. I don't know why people just stopped going all the way down that way but it just happened.

Now if you want to see a sad mall...falling apart and nobody caring...come to the Exton Square Mall.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

Plymouth has been a slow long decline. It really started when Lits closed at the one end. That end of the mall then was always deader for years...even after Hess's took over the spot. The busier end was always the Strawbridge's side. I don't know why people just stopped going all the way down that way but it just happened.

Now if you want to see a sad mall...falling apart and nobody caring...come to the Exton Square Mall.

And ironic that Exton is such a nice area. Reminds me of Granite Run before it was mostly demolished and "re-invented".