SAN ANTONIO | City and Metro Transportation Thread

[Restless One]

Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown

I understood the comment to mean that when cities and citizens embrace civic transit, there are fewer cars on the road, and that that's a good thing.

By that logic, population decline is good thing, as it would lead to less congestion as well.

At present, neither individual conveyance nor public conveyance is acceptable. In a city as spread out as San Antonio, East coast style public transit simply won't work.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by Restless One

By that logic, population decline is good thing, as it would lead to less congestion as well.

At present, neither individual conveyance nor public conveyance is acceptable. In a city as spread out as San Antonio, East coast style public transit simply won't work.

East coast style public transit includes subways and buses for shorter trips within the city, and commuter rail and express buses for longer trips (e.g. 1604 to downtown with stops at major transfer points, and other similar distances). It works well on the east coast, throughout Europe and Asia, and it would absolutely work in San Antonio. People would just need to be educated about it, and that's not that difficult to do.

I live in greater Boston and I take the bus to the subway. Easy as cake.

[bosshaa5]

Originally Posted by Restless One

By that logic, population decline is good thing, as it would lead to less congestion as well.

At present, neither individual conveyance nor public conveyance is acceptable. In a city as spread out as San Antonio, East coast style public transit simply won't work.

You are actually correct. Transportation planners often site the target population density for viable public transportation is around 10,000 people per square mile. There are a few zip codes on the west side of SA pushing 7-8,000 people per square mile. So, clearly SA has a way to go.

However, the argument here becomes chicken or the egg.

East coast cities were built prior to the advent of cars and interstates, so this density already existed in most places. Sun Belt cities really didn't boom until post WWII. The development patters then were dispersed; fueled by cheap oil, cheap land, and the backing of a litany federal programs. One can argue these cities need the infrastructure first before the right kind of development/density builds up around it.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by bosshaa5

You are actually correct. Transportation planners often site the target population density for viable public transportation is around 10,000 people per square mile. There are a few zip codes on the west side of SA pushing 7-8,000 people per square mile. So, clearly SA has a way to go.

However, the argument here becomes chicken or the egg.

East coast cities were built prior to the advent of cars and interstates, so this density already existed in most places. Sun Belt cities really didn't boom until post WWII. The development patters then were dispersed; fueled by cheap oil, cheap land, and the backing of a litany federal programs. One can argue these cities need the infrastructure first before the right kind of development/density builds up around it.

And a large part of San Antonio was also built pre WWII. Seems to me that different transit options should be considered for different parts of town.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

And a large part of San Antonio was also built pre WWII. Seems to me that different transit options should be considered for different parts of town.

True. Hence rail transit and/or buses with dedicated lanes inside 410 (or thereabouts) and commuter rail and express buses beyond that.

[bosshaa5]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

And a large part of San Antonio was also built pre WWII. Seems to me that different transit options should be considered for different parts of town.

True, and much of those pre-WWII areas were connected with fixed-rail street cars and commuter lines. With the advent of car-culture and interstates, many parts got turned into strip-centers and surface parking lots.

[SpiritofSeguin]

I just want the damn downtown trolleys back. Those were so fun to ride, especially when they come down Alamo Plaza and make that big sweeping turn at the Torch of Friendship where I'd slide all the way back in the seat because of those smooth wood benches and the announcement would chime "Approaching...the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center" and just the most perfect view of the flags and the Tower...those were the days.

[jaga185]

While not the same, we did get some free electric trolleys.



New electric trolley service offers free rides around downtown San Antonio

San Antonio’s newest form of downtown transportation has six doors, tiny tires and large windows.

These new electric vehicles are called SaGO, a free service intended to give locals and tourists short-distance rides across downtown San Antonio and nearby locations.

Owned and operated by Liz and Kevin Mancha, SaGO has five vehicles that since late December have been transporting people to and from downtown locations and surrounding areas like the Pearl, Southtown, the St. Mary’s Strip, and the Dignowity Hill Historic District.

“If I work at the Frost Tower and I want to have brunch [in Hemisfair], I don’t want to walk there,” Kevin Mancha said. “If I grab a trolley real quick, I’m not sweaty by the time I get back. … We understand the need of quick trips when it’s cold or hot.”

There are no set routes; to get a lift on what the Manchas call their e-trollies, riders text SaGO at 210-660-6939. Wait times average 10 to 15 minutes, but the Manchas say more drivers and vehicles will decrease wait times once the company is fully staffed.

The Manchas launched the startup after seeing a need for short-distance travel. They heard from rideshare drivers that short-distance trips aren’t always worth the pay, and other options for short-distance travel in downtown focus on the tourist experience.

“We’re bridging that gap between getting from here to the Alamo or from the Alamo to Market Square, not from the Alamo to the airport,” Kevin Mancha said.

As the vehicles cruise around downtown at about 20 miles per hour, people turn and look.

The small vehicles are narrower than an average car but feel spacious inside. Each seat has its own door and window to roll down. The SaGO’s top speed is 25 miles per hour, and as a low-speed vehicle is allowed only on surface streets with speed limits of 35 mph or less.

The vehicle, called the GEM e6, is manufactured by Waev in California as an environmentally-friendly alternative to gas-burning cars.

SaGO operates two to three e-trollies per shift, daily from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. and until 11 p.m. Fridays and Saturdays.

SaGO’s owners plan to add a mobile app soon that will expand the access to SAGO, allowing passengers to request a ride on demand.

Like most cars, the e-trolley will also navigate heavy traffic during the city’s most popular events downtown like Fiesta, but passengers say they choose to board the ride for its unique shape and the fact that it’s free.

“It feels kind of like a golf cart, but this one is enclosed, so it feels more comfy,” said Hugo Trinidad, a tourist visiting from Dallas with his family, who accompanied their 12-year-old daughter, Zoe, on a school field trip to visit the Alamo. His favorite part? “The experience, and it’s free.”

The family waved the trolley down near the Alamo to get to their car parked a five-minute walk away.

“The moment we saw it, we said ‘That’s cute. Let’s take it,'” Trinidad said.

Mancha said he is able to make SaGO a free service by selling advertising to display on the vehicles and with local partnerships.

For now, the company has three private funders and two sponsors: Tony’s Siesta and SideCars, another transportation business venture the Manchas launched in 2019 that transports people on Vespa scooters fitted with sidecars.

“We want to make sure it’s free always,” he said. “You have people [in downtown], working and already paying for parking. … This new microtransit option for the city [is to] move people.”

[aggie2008]

VIA is getting some recognition from Streetsblog about its service. As someone who rides the bus regularly I do really appreciate the data feeds that tell me where the bus is. It was especially nice the last few days when I was standing outside in 20 degree weather! My biggest gripe with the bus at this point is frequency. Primo is great but the 40 minute or hour frequency on a lot of routes make for a hard commute.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/01/...idsized-cities

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by aggie2008

VIA is getting some recognition from Streetsblog about its service. As someone who rides the bus regularly I do really appreciate the data feeds that tell me where the bus is. It was especially nice the last few days when I was standing outside in 20 degree weather! My biggest gripe with the bus at this point is frequency. Primo is great but the 40 minute or hour frequency on a lot of routes make for a hard commute.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/01/...idsized-cities

They have a surprisingly good data portal too on their website if you want to dig into ridership numbers and performance, it's pretty interesting.

And you're right, frequency really is the key issue. On the few frequent routes, ridership is actually relatively high. The Mary Louise stop in front of the Deco HEB is a good example, it is a heavily used stop but located in a not particularly dense area. But because there's two Primo routes plus a swarm of regular routes, ridership is high. So we can roast Primo for being shit BRT (fair), but I think it does demonstrate that limited stop high frequency service is a winning model, even in low density areas.

[Rynetwo]

Here comes more federal money.

The Federal Transit Administration has recommended that approximately $245 million be added to the president’s fiscal 2025 budget to fund San Antonio’s advanced rapid transit plan.

With that move VIA Metropolitan Transit is now poised to receive more than $400 million in federal funding for its development of the city’s first ART lines.

“If history proves itself, those funds should be approved for us — even if the president's budget is not adopted wholesale,” VIA CEO Jeffrey Arndt told me.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sananton...Pos=3#cxrecs_s

[JACKinBeantown]

^^ That level of federal funding is awesome!

[forward looking]

We, don't know how large San Antonio will expand to in the next hundred years. I am seventy two years old now and the city's growth so far since I was a little kid has been astonishing, already. Two hundred years hence? I remember when the San Antonio population was nearly 400,000 and Austin's population was 80,000. Just within my lifetime. I also recall avoiding larger airports and prefer smaller ones in big cities anyway. O'hare particularly. The pace seems almost frantic in there because of the crowds. Living in overcrowded spaces in this day and age ? I always flew in and out of Midway airport in Chicago even, way back when.
Stinson, little Stinson Field, might be expanded on a large scale someday. When Austin and San Antonio's ever expanding growth reaches each other Stinson could be the best option... plus all Toll roads in between the two cities? Probably. The Rail service of course. I read, not long ago that the Austin -San Antonio-Houston corridor will become a manufacturing giant. One of the largest on Earth.
Crowding may be relieved by now in O'Hare, I don't know. I have been retired for some time.

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

Stinson will function as a reliever airport, which I'd assume entails terminal improvements (which are in the pipeline iirc) and lengthening the runways, which I'm not sure about. But its pretty safe to say it will never become SA's version of Hobby or Love Field.

[AwesomeSAView]

Originally Posted by forward looking

We, don't know how large San Antonio will expand to in the next hundred years. I am seventy two years old now and the city's growth so far since I was a little kid has been astonishing, already. Two hundred years hence? I remember when the San Antonio population was nearly 400,000 and Austin's population was 80,000. Just within my lifetime. I also recall avoiding larger airports and prefer smaller ones in big cities anyway. O'hare particularly. The pace seems almost frantic in there because of the crowds. Living in overcrowded spaces in this day and age ? I always flew in and out of Midway airport in Chicago even, way back when.
Stinson, little Stinson Field, might be expanded on a large scale someday. When Austin and San Antonio's ever expanding growth reaches each other Stinson could be the best option... plus all Toll roads in between the two cities? Probably. The Rail service of course. I read, not long ago that the Austin -San Antonio-Houston corridor will become a manufacturing giant. One of the largest on Earth.
Crowding may be relieved by now in O'Hare, I don't know. I have been retired for some time.

Very well said!!!

[forward looking]

Tanks, very much.

Originally Posted by AwesomeSAView

Very well said!!!

[SproutingTowers]

I drove back down to San Antonio and the traffic was awful on I-35 and Loop 1604. I did see progress in the construction on I-10 near Selma with lots of columns sticking up, along Loop 1604 with new lanes being added, and the intersection of Loop 1604 / I-10 with new ramps being built. US 281 north of Loop 1604 is complete and has lots of lanes include a HOV to Bulverde.

[Restless One]

Originally Posted by SproutingTowers

I drove back down to San Antonio and the traffic was awful on I-35 and Loop 1604. I did see progress in the construction on I-10 near Selma with lots of columns sticking up, along Loop 1604 with new lanes being added, and the intersection of Loop 1604 / I-10 with new ramps being built. US 281 north of Loop 1604 is complete and has lots of lanes include a HOV to Bulverde.

Our bones will be long rotted, an I35 will still suck.