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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
40+ year old roof membrane leaking underground aww u guys sure its not just cause its old has nothing to do with soil conditions all roofs leak as they age

cant be that hard to do it they built it in the 70's with out ripping the whole street up so i dunno why we cant do that now

also hearing simlar number to decomsion vs repair hows that even make sens
The water table is creeping up. And I would be dollars to donuts these type of membranes have a longer functional life in say Los Angeles versus Winnipeg.

So yes, it has reached the end of it's useful life - however that doesn't mean we should invest $$ to kick the can down the road another 40 years.

And decommissioning will cost mega dollars because there is a road up there. You need to fill in all voids properly to avoid future settlements or sink holes and the underground structure gradually deteriorates.
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 5:23 PM
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Anything is possible with unlimited money. But saving the underground circus at Portage and Main doesn't seem worth it. We can pay once to decommission it and reopen the intersection to pedestrians. Or, we can pay now and then again in the future to repair and maintain it going forward. Repairing it seems like a senseless never ending cycle of expenses that doesn't make sense if we just reopen the intersection to pedestrians, like all other intersections in the city.
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Authentic_City View Post
Anything is possible with unlimited money. But saving the underground circus at Portage and Main doesn't seem worth it. We can pay once to decommission it and reopen the intersection to pedestrians. Or, we can pay now and then again in the future to repair and maintain it going forward. Repairing it seems like a senseless never ending cycle of expenses that doesn't make sense if we just reopen the intersection to pedestrians, like all other intersections in the city.
I don't think the city should have to pay, but I do think that if the businesses on the corners of the street want to maintain the connectivity, something will get done. Either they will build skywalks or pay to repair the concourse. I could see a scenario where the city offloads the circus by transferring that asset to the property owners on the 4 corners and then letting them take care of maintaining it. Something along those lines. If they want it badly enough, they'll cough up the dough.

Everyone wins.

Who owns the skywalks currently?
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 5:37 PM
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Skywalks are a mixture of ownership. A few sections are publicly owned (I think the bridge to the Millennium Library, for example) but most are privately owned (in some cases with ownership split between property owners. Read an article a few years ago about the complicated ownership of the network.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 7:26 PM
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If I was mayor and wanted portage and main opened, despite a public vote against it, I would blame the cost of maintaining the concourse open, to appease the electorate. Just saying.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
if i was mayor and wanted portage and main opened, despite a public vote against it, i would blame the cost of maintaining the concourse open, to appease the electorate. Just saying.
^^^ 100%
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2024, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
If I was mayor and wanted portage and main opened, despite a public vote against it, I would blame the cost of maintaining the concourse open, to appease the electorate. Just saying.
Gillingham had previously come out against opening P & M. If course, he could just be a canny enough politician to know when to keep his cards close to his chest. Hard to tell what the story is here, I'm just glad he made the decision he did.
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2024, 6:04 PM
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On a side note, is it still too early to know that Portage Ave. E will be closed and/or converted to a transit station? I know it's in another thread with the Transit Master Plan but is that leaning towards a closure or at least some sort of restriction?
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  #9  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2024, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by The Jabroni View Post
On a side note, is it still too early to know that Portage Ave. E will be closed and/or converted to a transit station? I know it's in another thread with the Transit Master Plan but is that leaning towards a closure or at least some sort of restriction?
I believe the only restriction will be no right turn from NB Main to EB Portage.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 12:54 AM
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Uncovering the intersection in phases and filling the circus with compacted crushed rock is the best idea for P&M ever. Best, cheapest, smartest. There are enough routes around P&M opening to ped traffic that the extra congestion won't matter. Fixing the membrane for the 300 or so people that use the circus daily would be moronic.
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 4:01 AM
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shut it down is dumb both is better we need a balance

the economic disconection from the underground/ skywalk system is a deathnail to the importance of the intersection a balance of surface and underground access is key sigh
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2024, 7:45 PM
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When you build something, you expect to maintain it. The City surely built this knowing one day it'll need to be maintained. It's just not easy to maintain in this case.

I'd be curious to know what type of system was used, vs what type of new system would be installed. Just spraying on rubber is not the final answer.

Either way, they City needs to repair it and get the land owners to pay for it. Then put the fancy streetscape at grade and let people walk across the street. Easy peasey.
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 1:18 PM
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How do you get the landowners to pay for it? The Richardson's would be the only original owner. I can't see the MMF or Harvard having any real need for having the underground connections. They don't have the below grade services that The Richardson's or Winnipeg Square has. Even so, I would still tell the City to do what you want as they were not part of the original agreement.
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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
How do you get the landowners to pay for it? The Richardson's would be the only original owner. I can't see the MMF or Harvard having any real need for having the underground connections. They don't have the below grade services that The Richardson's or Winnipeg Square has. Even so, I would still tell the City to do what you want as they were not part of the original agreement.
Ask them. The City is/will be doing that according to the council text. Pony up or we close it down. It actually seems reasonable as the whole thing is set-up to direct people into those buildings.
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  #15  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 2:20 PM
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ur better to ask then asume though
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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 9:41 PM
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Hey I’m pro-above grade ped infrastructure you don’t have to convince me
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  #17  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2024, 9:58 PM
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That escalated quickly. Wow lmao.
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  #18  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2024, 2:47 PM
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Today's news about P & M (and a note about The Bay):

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...sday-1.7141650

A couple of interesting takeaways from this piece for me. The stakeholders at P & M all seem to want the intersection opened for pedestrian crossing, but there's still some question about how much they want the underground portion open. There's a suggestion they would like to have both, but there doesn't seem to be much will from the Richardsons, etc., to foot any of the cost. I'm pretty sure someone here suggested that might be the case.

IMO the downtown BIZ is making noise for the small handful of businesses in the underground circus because they feel they have to represent them in some way.

Browaty voted against the opening. I'm am concussed with surprise.
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  #19  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2024, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pspeid View Post
Today's news about P & M (and a note about The Bay):

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...sday-1.7141650

A couple of interesting takeaways from this piece for me. The stakeholders at P & M all seem to want the intersection opened for pedestrian crossing, but there's still some question about how much they want the underground portion open. There's a suggestion they would like to have both, but there doesn't seem to be much will from the Richardsons, etc., to foot any of the cost. I'm pretty sure someone here suggested that might be the case.

IMO the downtown BIZ is making noise for the small handful of businesses in the underground circus because they feel they have to represent them in some way.

Browaty voted against the opening. I'm am concussed with surprise.
Great point by the mayor that the repairs would also completely detail the TMP, as P&M is basically the second most prominent station within the plan after Union Station. That alone seems like a good reason to examine whether killing the Underground is the best way forward.
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  #20  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2024, 10:43 PM
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There is much I like about Winnipeg. To some of the others posted above I would add the great urban parks and the tree canopy. I do agree that the city punches above its weight culturally and the people are generally down-to- earth and friendly in comparison to other large cities. The civic leadership though is mostly milquetoast and without vision.

I think Winnipeg just has to do better. Not everything would cost a fortune. This city does not enjoy a magnificent natural setting like Vancouver or Quebec City. It does not have a balmy climate nor beaches. It has the rivers and it has its historical built heritage. In recent decades I think it can be stated unequivocally that this city has become aesthetically challenged. So many of the more recent developments are ugly and should never have been approved. Not just downtown but elsewhere too, esp. along prominent thoroughfares.

Who approved the Mere Hotel and an adjacent parking lot on the river side of the Waterfront Drive? The building itself is not particularly terrible, banal perhaps, but it does not belong there. The Access Building on Main would not raise eyebrows in Murray Industrial Park but is beauty a foreign concept here? Development done badly, 1133 Portage, the west face overlooks garbage bins and the dominant feature of the site is the parking lot, right on broad Portage Ave., what has the potential to be one of Canada's finest streets. Yes, Portage was butchered by the skywalks, the westward vista destroyed. What is the love affair here with cheap looking white cladding on buildings in a city with 4 or 5 months of snow cover? They look ghastly. Look at that apartment building SW corner Maryland and Westminster, less than ten years old I believe and already looking quite tatty. It degrades the gorgeous adjacent Westminster Church, one of the city's finest. Why does nothing last here? The Concourse is barely 45 years old. Parts of the London Underground are pushing 160. Then there's one of the jewels in the city's crown. The CMHR. I try and I try to like it, but I just can't help being disappointed. The rendering was translucent and ethereal. The result however is hulking and oppressive. A few years back a poster on this site referred to it as a "pickelhaube." I haven't forgot that word. The new conservatory. I enjoyed my visit but who decided that it was a good idea to have the loading docks and garbage bins in plain sight as you approach the main entrance? And why why why so much parking EVERYWHERE? Get off your ass and walk. Park on the street and walk a block or two. And why are there no efforts in general in this city to improve urban beauty by adding fountains and good public art? Yeah, yeah, I know, people would sh*t and p*ss in them. Yeah yeah, not enough parking.

There is a crime problem here whether you want to acknowledge it or not. This despite an ever higher percentage of the civic budget going to policing, leaving less for parks and other services. All cities are experiencing the same to greater or lesser degrees, but the reality is, the crime problem here is causing this city to have a poor reputation nationally and discouraging inward investment and even tourism from adjacent American states. The recent fires are nothing short of soul-crushing. There are theories that ugly and unfriendly built environments result in higher crime.

Winnipeg has to decide what kind of city it wants to be in 10, 20, 50 years. A giant suburban doughnut or an attractive and unique city that people are proud of. This starts with good zoning and above all, STANDARDS. We'll probably never get better than the current 7th largest city in our lifetimes, but so what? Bigger is not always better. Anyone been to Houston? Some of the most beautiful cities in the world are small to medium sized. Development is only good if it is good development. Lots and lots of potential.

https://thewalrus.ca/why-is-canadian...ecture-so-bad/
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