Best to live in the midst of the current chaos

[muppet]

Yep, those are the prices now, so will be lower than NYC considering how dramatically the £ tanked under Liz Truss's leadership in the last month- the lowest against the $ in 50 years. Also bear in mind everything is smaller in Europe -portions, box sizes, house sizes, cars, seats, hotel rooms etc despite you paying the same or more.

A pint btw is about $8 in a pub, in bars they don't really sell pints (568 ml) but much smaller bottles (330ml) for the same price. Absolute rip-off. Also petrol is $8.60 a gallon, taxi to the airport by black cab is about $100, to drive into the centre the congestion charge is $17 a day

My heating bill (2 bed flat) came to near $6K for the year, not far off the price of rent.

The things that stay cheap however are art, culture (all the museums and galleries are free), healthcare, books, flights (often cheaper to fly to Europe than take the coach to the airport, or even commute into London) and clothing (fast fashion). Tipping is only for food -15% automatically added on (but voluntary).

[JManc]

From my experience, beer is more expensive in London than New York. Though, London maybe cheaper now with the cheaper pound.

[wwmiv]

Can I flip this question on its head and say which cities are poorly prepared in which areas to deal with the current economic crisis and, given where this thread has gone, climate change?

Portland, Denver, and Sacramento — air quality
Denver, Vegas, Austin, San Antonio — water supply
Austin, San Antonio — flash flooding
Miami, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Houston — sea level and/or water table rise
Miami, NOLA, BR, Houston, Tampa — hurricanes
Seattle, Los Angeles, San Fran, San Jose, San Diego, St. Louis — earthquakes
Seattle — tsunamis
Austin — real estate
Austin — Elon Musk
Austin, Nashville — infrastructure
Austin, Denver, Nashville, Cali, Seattle, NYC, Boston, Portland — housing costs

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by muppet

Yep, those are the prices now, so will be lower than NYC considering how dramatically the £ tanked under Liz Truss's leadership in the last month- the lowest against the $ in 50 years. Also bear in mind everything is smaller in Europe -portions, box sizes, house sizes, cars, seats, hotel rooms etc despite you paying the same or more.

A pint btw is about $8 in a pub, in bars they don't really sell pints (568 ml) but much smaller bottles (330ml) for the same price. Absolute rip-off. Also petrol is $8.60 a gallon, taxi to the airport by black cab is about $100, to drive into the centre the congestion charge is $17 a day

My heating bill (2 bed flat) came to near $6K for the year, not far off the price of rent.

The things that stay cheap however are art, culture (all the museums and galleries are free), healthcare, books, flights (often cheaper to fly to Europe than take the coach to the airport, or even commute into London) and clothing (fast fashion). Tipping is only for food -15% automatically added on (but voluntary).

$6K for heat?? It doesn't even get that cold there by our standards. I pay about $600/year for electric in a 2 bed flat which combines electric heat, hot water, and lights. How can people afford that?

[muppet]

$600 is gob smacking. Amazing you guys can get that deal, but I would imagine having a continent sized country full of resources and only 40 million to enjoy it helps.

Meanwhile we have to supply 70 million from only this area (I remember planning a trip to Newfoundland and thinking I could daytrip it around the island, which to me was gonna be a quaint little town and cycling between the remaining villages). The UK even controversially powers itself via Canada (and pissing on your old growth forests) -another greenwashed eco-unit that produces more carbon than a coal power station, yet gets $6 billion in govt subsidies for being 'sustainable'.



Anyhoo, it's been crazy - our flat was a 60s build so no insulation, terrible heat quality too, which made one of our housemates bring his own little electric heater. The ones that drain power grids - throughout the year the company didn't measure our consumption, nor record our meter readings we emailed in. When it folded with the rise in gas prices, the new company did the same -only on moving out last month did we get the 'true' reading for the final bill. Absolutely beggars belief, we are of course now contesting it -we thought $120 a month was covering it, it was near 5x that.

The current price cap Truss grudgingly introduced is about $4k a year (before the furore UK was the only country allowing a boom for the energy giants), a cap which we missed out on. Without it was predicted at about $6.9K a year, or more than 3x the rate from before the crisis, which is inline with what we're being charged.

This is what no-holds liberalist economics looks like:



Even with the cap it's predicted about a quarter of all UK homes will keep their heating off this winter, and millions will be plunged into poverty, choosing between 'heat or eat', and pensioners are now sitting on buses (free travel for them) in order to stay warm all day. Already my workplace is full from those formerly wfh -known as 'heat refugees' who can now switch off their daytime power (though our complex for 600 staff and 20,000 daily visitors is refusing to turn on the burners until December).



Also there's a distinct type of cold that hugs the UK, one that's damp and penetrates to your soul for about 9 months a year (and is terrible for arthritis), which means the heating stays on for those not used to it. Many of my Polish and Scandi friends remark that it feels colder here, even the depths of a -20C Siberian winter. I can attest after living through a Finnish winter, able to brave 3 feet of snow in a t-shirt to put the rubbish out (because it felt fine to what I was used to), but still needing longjohns in May when back in the UK. It's a humid cold, not a dry one, sits on the skin and aches the bones.

[muppet]

The country will fall into recession in the new year. Truss's worship of liberalist economics and trickle-down BS has literally every expert in the field shaking their heads (viral vids of leading economist after economist giving a rundown on why her budget would be a disaster). She's been the country's shortest reigning Prime Minister, and what all the papers right and left are calling the worst too. The left hate her for her Thatcherist policies, the right for the fact even though she tries to grant them thousands of £ in tax cuts, they lose tens of thousands in investments as the market subsequently implodes. Canyer believe she used to be Lib Dem (far left)? I don't think she or her Chancellor, Kwarteng ever worked out that it you remove spending power from the poor and middle class to furnish the rich, you make the moneywash cycle unsustainable.


In short Brexit has made the country suddenly devoid from a whole raft of legislation protecting workers, citizens, the environment, small businesses, education, healthcare (and if you read between the lines, the economy) etc and the current liberalist free-for-all the Conservatives have been playing is wrecking the joint. Trying to become like Hong Kong -Britain (and now China's) great liberalist experiment they daren't try back home. One of the world's richest populaces and economies on paper, the no 1 'freest' economy and easiest to do business in, but where 80% of the people are trapped in the working class (and 30% in the absolute precariat), despite the best education results in the world. The only reason HK exists is because it's a colony (still), with nowhere to escape to.

Since Brexit the UK has had more Prime Ministers than the previous 40 years. We're pretty much Italy now.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by muppet

The rent and cost of living hikes makes many of the premier cities unviable, even if they are best-placed to weather the storm. Average rent in London is now is about $600 a week, for shitty accom and likely far out. An average 30 applicants per room, and multiple times that for anything with the whiff of a better deal. I've found an amazing deal but a box room in the quietest, most boring part of the city (it doesn't even have pubs) and I have to share with an OAP landlord who has mental health issues, is a hoarder, very unhygienic and talks to himself.

A pint is now $8, a 'cheap eat' is $20 for a main. Commuting will cost $2000 as the cheapest option (annual pass for zones 1-3, which you'd need to be rich to live in anyway), $2,500 for one zone further (and there are 9 zones). Without a travelcard an upfront single journey within the same zone is $7, even for one stop, which technically makes it the world's most expensive form of transport mile-for-mile.

A box of cereal is now $5-7, spam is the cheapest meat and that's $5 a tin.

I imagine it a similar story for all large cities.

I’ve always been shocked by the tickets prices in London. It’s a city that pushes public transit, therefore it should subsidize it more.

Here in São Paulo there is no zones, and exchange between subway, railway and even buses lines are unlimited. You can travel like 100km in the train paying a single ticket which costs R$ 4,40 or US$ 0,80. Even if we change to power purchase, it’s several times cheaper than London.

[Acajack]

A lot of people have picked Vancouver as a place of refuge in Canada but in addition to the economics it's also considered the most vulnerable city in Canada geographically: earthquake risk, sea level rise and fires or at least heavy smoke from fires becoming a regular summer time thing.

[Acajack]

In terms of both economic hardship and earth-driven cataclysms, I actually like Washington DC in the US as a haven.

Though yes there is the threat of political violence and terrorism.

But the two former concerns are more likely and also more likely to affect more people.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by muppet

That's crazy.

I pay 4.542 ¢/kWh (Canadian cents, so like 3.5 US cents) most of the year thanks to being a bienergy customer (which means I have the ability to take my heating off the grid on the few days per year of super high demand).

Regular price is CAD 0.06/kWh. Still (more than) one order of magnitude cheaper than in Britain. I knew we had some of the cheapest power on the planet but I did not expect the gap to be THAT bad.

At least Brits can go without heating in winter. Here it's impossible. So that's your silver lining...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A lot of people have picked Vancouver as a place of refuge in Canada but in addition to the economics it's also considered the most vulnerable city in Canada geographically: earthquake risk, sea level rise and fires or at least heavy smoke from fires becoming a regular summer time thing.

Vancouver would be one of my last places to be in the case of a semi-chaotic shift. It's very un-egalitarian, and you don't want to be around when the hordes of homeless and DTES zombies to go into "eat the rich" mode. And it's super expensive to begin with, leaving you poorly equipped to deal with whatever is coming (less budget for everything else that's not housing).

In fact, Vancouver is the opposite: it's only a "good choice" when you're confident the status quo will continue intact, that Canada will continue to welcome laundered Chinese capital, that China will continue to do well, that rich Chinese will continue to want a safe haven, etc. It's a safe place when you're betting on the status quo. Even the recent comments by François-Philippe Champagne and Chrystia Freeland (and Joe Biden too) on uncoupling with China hint of a future where Vancouver won't do too well. Hard economic times in China means less rich Chinese.

To go back to the idea discussed, I'd prefer to be in a somewhat remote location, actually, given that crime would likely spike in all cities.

Ideal situation would be to live (nearly entirely) off the land, while still being no more than one hour's drive away from Montreal (in case of an occasional big city need).

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A lot of people have picked Vancouver as a place of refuge in Canada but in addition to the economics it's also considered the most vulnerable city in Canada geographically: earthquake risk, sea level rise and fires or at least heavy smoke from fires becoming a regular summer time thing.

The PNW (and the West Coast) is generally very mountainous so sea level rise would have minimal effect relative to other lower lying coastal regions. Seismic engineering is also a thing here so I’m not too worried about an earthquake (again relative to other locations that tend to have other natural disasters). And with climate change we are also likely to see more extreme fluctuations in weather. So places that have heavy winters and hot summers will be more unlivable. With the PNW already having very mild weather (again relative to other locations), I don’t expect the weather to change super drastically except for maybe more heat waves (but it’d be more tolerable than a place like California where it can already get pretty hot normally).

[lio45]

Seems like an entirely different question though. The OP talks about economic problems, not climatic ones. Everywhere on the West Coast is already overrun with homeless (relatively speaking) and has more acute unequality than the rest of the country.

[Crawford]

I don't see how PNW isn't unusually vulnerable due to climate/natural threats.

Everyone knows about the earthquake/tsunami risk, which is basically unmatched anywhere else in NA. Forest fires are getting worse, and there will be an entire season where the air quality is dangerous. People generally don't have AC, so the increasing heatwaves can be deadly. Much of the PNW appeal is the lush, scenic surroundings, outdoorsy culture and mild weather.

On the other hand, Americans seem to like hot, parched, sunny places, so maybe this will be a long-term advantage for some. Maybe a hotter Portland will appeal to some. Doesn't cost that much to install AC. Places like TX and AZ will be very difficult places to live in a few generations.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by lio45

Seems like an entirely different question though. The OP talks about economic problems, not climatic ones. Everywhere on the West Coast is already overrun with homeless (relatively speaking) and has more acute unequality than the rest of the country.

I’d argue economic problems are tied closely to climate change ones (ie places that have historically been dependent on fossil fuel industry). The fact that there are a lot of homeless actually adds to the argument that the West Coast would be favorable during economic chaos since there’s a lot of safety nets and resources here if one were to become unemployed.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by muppet

Yep, those are the prices now, so will be lower than NYC considering how dramatically the £ tanked under Liz Truss's leadership in the last month- the lowest against the $ in 50 years. Also bear in mind everything is smaller in Europe -portions, box sizes, house sizes, cars, seats, hotel rooms etc despite you paying the same or more.

A pint btw is about $8 in a pub, in bars they don't really sell pints (568 ml) but much smaller bottles (330ml) for the same price. Absolute rip-off. Also petrol is $8.60 a gallon, taxi to the airport by black cab is about $100, to drive into the centre the congestion charge is $17 a day

Gasoline in NYC is around the $3.50/gallon mark today. It got close to $6/gallon back in the Spring when the Ukraine war started but has pulled back quite a bit.

[pdxtex]

The safest American city for your wallet and catastrophic weather is probably somewhere in Ohio. Columbus, Ohio is said to be the most average city in America. If were just talking climate, head to the great lakes, they have all the fresh water. Lack of water will be the west coast's greatest challenge in the next 100 years. Concerning NW air quality. Smokey events are seasonal and temporary. But sucky.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Gasoline in NYC is around the $3.50/gallon mark today.

That pretty inexpensive.

Taking a quick look at Google maps, here in Chicagoland gas is going for ~$4.75 in the city, ~$4.50 in suburban cook, and ~$4.25 out in the collar counties.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Taking a quick look at Google maps, here in Chicagoland gas is going for ~$4.75 in the city, ~$4.50 in suburban cook, and ~$4.25 out in the collar counties.

That's still soft.

Here in France, we've had a strike carefully planned by politicized left-wing unions in oil refineries to annoy the entire country for weeks.
Get ready for the wild prices.

Over here in Paris, we saw some gas stations sell their gas for €2.99 per liter, that's US$11.20 per US gallon at current rate exchange.
An absolute scam. People hardly can believe it, but they're still lining to fuel their cars, because many still simply don't have a choice.

Imagine something like that in the US. People out there would be rioting and looting.
I'm laughing like an asshole because I have Parisian mass transit stations near my home, but more seriously, I feel sorry for people who actually need their cars and trucks to work and all.
It's been terrible. People in your country have no idea what it feels like to pay something like $10 a gas gallon. They couldn't stand it. Your entire economy would break down.

[JManc]

Gas peaked around $7 here (premium grade) and has dropped down to about 5.50 (for the cheap stuff).