Tallest building not in largest city or metro of State

[twinpeaks]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Yes, there are multiple ways to skin this particular cat.




But by my extremely scientific and precise "visually, which one looks the tallest?" method, Salesforce is the Cali winner in my book.

This is the most accurate way of measurement.

[aderwent]

Originally Posted by Wigs

And in terms of Metro GDP, Cincy takes the slight lead, and Columbus now has a larger economy than Cleveland
The 3 C's are fascinating

https://apps.bea.gov/itable/?ReqID=7...QiLCItMSJdXX0=

Fascinating indeed:

............... City....Urban.....MSA......CSA.......GDP........Market

Cincinnati: 3rd........2nd........1st........3rd........1st........3rd

Cleveland: 2nd........1st........3rd........1st........3rd........1st

Columbus: 1st........3rd........2nd........2nd........2nd........2nd

Although by 2030 it's looking like Columbus will be 1st in urban and MSA, and probably GDP. Cleveland will be 3rd in everything but CSA and market where it'll remain 1st.

[westak]

Originally Posted by aderwent

Fascinating indeed:

............... City....Urban.....MSA......CSA.......GDP........Market

Cincinnati: 3rd........2nd........1st........3rd........1st........3rd

Cleveland: 2nd........1st........3rd........1st........3rd........1st

Columbus: 1st........3rd........2nd........2nd........2nd........2nd

Although by 2030 it's looking like Columbus will be 1st in urban and MSA, and probably GDP. Cleveland will be 3rd in everything but CSA and market where it'll remain 1st.

Do you think Cleveland will drop from 1st in Urban to 3rd and behind Cincy in City population as well?

[aderwent]

Originally Posted by westak

Do you think Cleveland will drop from 1st in Urban to 3rd and behind Cincy in City population as well?

Good catch on the city. Doubtful, but for urban area yes. I know definitions changed so comparisons to 2010 urban areas aren't apples-to-apples, but Cincinnati's urban area grew by ~62,000 while Cleveland's lost ~68,000. Cincinnati was only behind by ~25,000 in 2020. If rates remained the same since Cincinnati is already ahead.

2030 Probable. City....Urban.....MSA......CSA.......GDP........Market

Cincinnati: 3rd/2nd.....2nd........2nd........3rd......1st/2nd.....3rd

Cleveland: 2nd/3rd.....3rd........3rd........1st........3rd..........1st

Columbus: ...1st........1st........1st........2nd........2nd/1st.....2nd

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

In reality, the 3 C's are all around the same size, so the fact that the tallest building happens to be in Cleveland is not terribly out of sorts with anything.

IDK I definitely see Cleveland as the biggest and most important C even if it's lost some ground to Columbus. I think most would too. City proper numbers mean nothing. Technically Columbus is a bigger city than Atlanta, which is a total joke.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by The North One

IDK I definitely see Cleveland as the biggest and most important C even if it's lost some ground to Columbus. I think most would too. City proper numbers mean nothing. Technically Columbus is a bigger city than Atlanta, which is a total joke.

As mentioned above, Cincy Metro has a larger GDP than Cleveland by almost $20B and Cleveland was recently surpassed by Columbus.

Cleveland still has the State's busiest airport, and Cleveland Clinic is one of the best healthcare systems in the world, but economically it's no longer the leader in Ohio.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

IDK I definitely see Cleveland as the biggest and most important C even if it's lost some ground to Columbus.

Sure, Cleveland and Cincy have the bigger brands due to legacy, pro sports, and less generic names, but all three are so close to being the same size these days that it's basically a wash in my eyes.

[3rd&Brown]

Where is the growth in Columbus (proper) concentrated? Is it still annexing outlying areas?

I like Columbus. I've been 3 or 4 times over the years. I think it's probably the most under the radar city in terms of growth in the country (unless it's by annexation). To add 120K people in a decade is no small feat for any American city, let alone one that's not in the sunbelt.

As a visitor, I see the development in and around downtown but no way that accounts for a 100K+ increase in population in 10 years. The streets themselves are not that busy with people, etc.

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by BillM

Actually, it has the 4 tallest buildings, I think.

There's apparently controversy surrounding the height of the Mohegan Sun tower.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Where is the growth in Columbus (proper) concentrated? Is it still annexing outlying areas?

I like Columbus. I've been 3 or 4 times over the years. I think it's probably the most under the radar city in terms of growth in the country (unless it's by annexation). To add 120K people in a decade is no small feat for any American city, let alone one that's not in the sunbelt.

As a visitor, I see the development in and around downtown but no way that accounts for a 100K+ increase in population in 10 years. The streets themselves are not that busy with people, etc.

Columbus has a really big footprint compared to other cities in the region, so it's been much easier for it to grow in the postwar era. It's pretty similar to a classic Sun Belt growth story. The area of Columbus is roughly the same size as Chicago, and only second to Indianapolis in the Great Lakes region. Columbus's area is nearly 3x the area of Cleveland or Cincinnati. But the city's population density is closing in on Cleveland's, so it will be interesting to see if it can continue growing at that rate without annexing more land.

[edale]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Where is the growth in Columbus (proper) concentrated? Is it still annexing outlying areas?

I like Columbus. I've been 3 or 4 times over the years. I think it's probably the most under the radar city in terms of growth in the country (unless it's by annexation). To add 120K people in a decade is no small feat for any American city, let alone one that's not in the sunbelt.

As a visitor, I see the development in and around downtown but no way that accounts for a 100K+ increase in population in 10 years. The streets themselves are not that busy with people, etc.

I'm no Columbus expert, but I know there has been impressive growth in the High Street corridor between Downtown and OSU's campus. Pretty crazy to see before and after pics of this area showing the bonanza of growth that's occurred in the last decade+. Here are a couple examples using streetview
2014
2024

2014
2024


Another area that has really sprung up from nothing is Franklinton, just across the river from Downtown. Streetview hasn't updated, but here's a look at how it looked as recently as 2019. Here's the aerial of this area now.

I think core Columbus is definitely growing quickly, but it also obviously benefits from having such huge city limits, too. While annexation has largely stopped, or at least majorly slowed, a lot of the land that was annexed in years past is just now being developed. As a result, there are new sprawly subdivisions being built adjacent to farms that all gets counted in the City of Columbus population figures. No doubt that significantly helps the Columbus growth narrative, though by no means does it explain all of it. The whole metro is growing and shows little signs of slowing. Columbus continues to be THE destination for people leaving depressed cities and towns around Ohio, of which there are many.

It's been a while since I've been to Downtown Columbus, but I agree it's very, very sleepy and lackluster for a city with such white hot growth. I'd love to see a Nashville or Austin style skyline boom there.

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Where is the growth in Columbus (proper) concentrated? Is it still annexing outlying areas?

I like Columbus. I've been 3 or 4 times over the years. I think it's probably the most under the radar city in terms of growth in the country (unless it's by annexation). To add 120K people in a decade is no small feat for any American city, let alone one that's not in the sunbelt.

As a visitor, I see the development in and around downtown but no way that accounts for a 100K+ increase in population in 10 years. The streets themselves are not that busy with people, etc.

An UrbanOhio forumer showed a stat for the 2020 Census that the old 51sq mi city limits of Columbus grew like 40,000+ people and the postwar sections grew 80,000+. I can tell you yuppie boxes are everywhere (old and new city) and Columbus city is not building enough single-family housing as it's almost maxed-out developable land-wise. Thus, yuppie boxes (you folks call them 5-over-1s) and apartment complexes are the standard here. Sections of the old city are certainly busy (Short North, Ohio State area, Grandview, Franklinton) but in the postwar city of Columbus, the traffic increase is highly noticeable from 10 years ago.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Columbus has a really big footprint compared to other cities in the region, so it's been much easier for it to grow in the postwar era. It's pretty similar to a classic Sun Belt growth story. The area of Columbus is roughly the same size as Chicago, and only second to Indianapolis in the Great Lakes region. Columbus's area is nearly 3x the area of Cleveland or Cincinnati. But the city's population density is closing in on Cleveland's, so it will be interesting to see if it can continue growing at that rate without annexing more land.

The fact that postwar sections of Columbus are increasing density and are rarely building cul-de-sac sprawly sections versus, well, other "sunbelt" cities is what makes it different than the "classic Sun Belt growth story." Columbus growth story is basically water rights.

And Columbus has not annexed any significant amount of land since like 1980. You can read about it here: https://www.columbusnavigator.com/columbus-annexation/

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by edale

It's been a while since I've been to Downtown Columbus, but I agree it's very, very sleepy and lackluster for a city with such white hot growth. I'd love to see a Nashville or Austin style skyline boom there.

Downtown currently has around 40+ projects going on right now but nothing highrise-wise like Austin or Nashville except for the Merchant Building. Agreed it is sleepy compared to Nashville or Austin but in general it keeps adding more and more residential, restaurants, bars, etc which, in turn, will wake it up a bit more. I find it comparable to a Sacramento or Raleigh; quietly doing improvements without a Broadway or 6th Street hype-fest.

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by The North One

IDK I definitely see Cleveland as the biggest and most important C even if it's lost some ground to Columbus. I think most would too. City proper numbers mean nothing. Technically Columbus is a bigger city than Atlanta, which is a total joke.

Agreed city propers mean nothing but MSAs certainly do. And thus, Cleveland is the 3rd largest MSA in Ohio, behind Cincinnati and Columbus. If we're going by CSA, then Cleveland is the largest, then Columbus, then Cincinnati.

But whatever you "see" is irrelevant. All three are basically the same size.

[aderwent]

I see no future where the tallest building will be built in Columbus (or Cincinnati). Columbus' best chance was when Bank One built the 2,000,000ft² McCoy Center in the suburbs. It could have been Columbus' Key Tower just five years later. I will say that I'm not sure Chase still has ~20,000 employees in Columbus if Bank One had built a tower downtown instead. Much easier to off load space in a tower than a campus.

[aderwent]

Originally Posted by aderwent

Cincinnati was only behind by ~25,000 in 2020. If rates remained the same since Cincinnati is already ahead.

With 2020 urban area boundaries the ACS estimates have Cincinnati surpassing Cleveland in 2022. Cleveland dropped 31,931 to 1,680,247 and Cincinnati gained 5,958 to 1,692,702.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by aderwent

I see no future where the tallest building will be built in Columbus (or Cincinnati).

Key tower set the bar fairly high.

It's still the tallest building in the Midwest outside of Chicago 3+ decades later.

It could reign in that role for quite some time to come.

[westak]

For whatever reason, this board is bereft of Cleveland boosters. These 3 C convos would be much more "lively" if they were around. :-)

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by westak

For whatever reason, this board is bereft of Cleveland boosters. These 3 C convos would be much more "lively" if they were around. :-)

Lord, don't EVEN break that dam LOL!

**(Exception is MayDay but that bitch has sense)

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Key tower set the bar fairly high.

It's still the tallest building in the Midwest outside of Chicago 3+ decades later.

It could reign in that role for quite some time to come.

That is true but I've always been surprised Minneapolis hasn't tried to take the title in the past 30 years.