The 'Mountain Lion' Cities Rising in the U.S. West

[TWAK]

^Yeah that seems about right and I would include humidity. Omg so bad

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, this makes sense for 20-somethings, but it's still weird. Tons of Boomers and Gen-Xers are moving to these places. Do they really want to whitewater raft all day? And when are they doing this, given that you have six months of winter and four months of fire season.

And you really can't do this stuff from, say, Pittsburgh, or Cincy? There's definitely whitewater rafting and rock climbing in close proximity to NYC, and I imagine anywhere close to the Appalachians would serve this need. West Virginia has tons of whitewater rafting and climbing.

And if you have kids, what about schools? If you're old, what about healthcare?

You may not get it but the mountains and deserts have great appeal to many. I wish it were not the case since I hate to see so much development sprawl into once pristine land and urban interfaces that are spreading into areas where they just shouldn't.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by dktshb

I really doubt the popularity of these cities has anything to do with the racial diversity of the areas.

I doubt it does either. It's not like there are a ton of black people in the Bay Area to run away from... Even the Bay Area's "black city" (Oakland) is plurality white. Instead, I think it's just been fueled by worker drone tech money looking for a place to feel rich(er). Those smaller western cities became spillover places for people in tech who weren't able to buy in Silicon Valley, but needed to be relatively close to California for the occasional commute and also in a favorable time zone to work with California based colleagues. At least that's how it started.

[pj3000]

I don't think most people realize how much outdoorsy stuff there is to do in the eastern US, even most people who reside in the eastern US.

Not just any old outdoorsy stuff... more like some of the best rivers for rafting, trails for hiking and biking, mountain wilderness for camping, etc. in the country. Along with some of the best fly fishing on the planet.

An the main thing to note is how accessible these various outdoor activities are to cities large and small running from Maine down to North Carolina, i.e., one doesn't have to drive 3 hours to reach this... no matter in which state one resides.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And you really can't do this stuff from, say, Pittsburgh, or Cincy?

The only thing people should care about is what is available to do on weeknights, after work, when there is a little bit of time to do something outdoors before the sun goes down. Otherwise, everywhere is equal, since these people in Montana and Utah are no doubt driving 2-3 hours on Friday night to hike on Saturday and then drive back. A huge percentage of the eastern U.S. lives within similar driving distance of similar outdoors stuff.

There has always been a bias in the American "adventure" mindset toward semi-arid landscapes, since the country was originally settled in the lush East. Americans irrationally think of semi-arid areas, where stuff barely grows, as more "natural" than, say, Pennsylvania.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by dktshb

Reno certainly has a lot of appeal since it is only a 3 hour drive or a 45 minute flight from the Bay Area and right there in the Tahoe region with all the "outdoorsy" things to do. A lot of these cities mentioned in the article have pretty much all the amenities most Americans need and desire and is why they're more expensive than the cheaper areas mentioned.. Plus there are just people who prefer the American West for its mountains and deserts. Growing up in the West I cannot imagine ever moving to the Midwest or the South. If I lived anywhere else other than the West it would have to be NY and or New England.

I really doubt the popularity of these cities has anything to do with the racial diversity of the areas.

I grew up in Reno and it has great weather (relatively speaking) and tons of outdoor stuff. People say there are mountains on the East Coast too, which is sort of true, but a different order of magnitude. And skiing on the west coast is way way better than the East Coast in terms of terrain, snow quality and weather. I used to go skiing almost every weekend in high school in winter (and back then, season passes were actually not exorbitantly expensive...). I certainly miss a lot of this stuff in Chicago, but I can fly to places easily enough (and it doesn't hurt that I travel to experiments in scenic places a lot).

But with fire season getting longer and Tahoe potentially burning down... not great.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The only thing people should care about is what is available to do on weeknights, after work, when there is a little bit of time to do something outdoors before the sun goes down. Otherwise, everywhere is equal, since these people in Montana and Utah are no doubt driving 2-3 hours on Friday night to hike on Saturday and then drive back. A huge percentage of the eastern U.S. lives within similar driving distance of similar outdoors stuff.

There has always been a bias in the American "adventure" mindset toward semi-arid landscapes, since the country was originally settled in the lush East. Americans irrationally think of semi-arid areas, where stuff barely grows, as more "natural" than, say, Pennsylvania.

It's about the density of people and the roughness of the topography. You don't have scenes like Tahoe or the Tetons or Yosemite or Glacier National Park out East.

[Crawford]

You have much more dramatic topography in the Alps. Much steeper elevations, in a much more lush environment, and closer proximity to amenities.

Having grown up in proximity to the Alps, I think this colors my thinking. Most of the western mountains are arid and the mostly treeless elevations are quite gradual. Nice, but generally not stunning, like the Dolemites or the Lauterbrunnen Valley. You can live in Munich or Milan and have fantastic urbanity plus amazing scenery in proximity, or somewhere like Innsbruck and go mountain hiking on lunch break.

Skiing, though, yeah. Best skiing on earth. But I don't think skiing, which is declining in popularity, is the primary driver. If my life revolved around skiing, I could definitely see living around Whistler or Alta, though.

[edale]

Lots of people in California/the west have a severe aversion to rain. It rains just a handful of times a year here in LA, yet you still hear incessant bitching from tons of people here whenever it does rain. That is something I find very odd. They seriously act like Cincinnatians act about snow/ice. Collective freakout and distress. Local news stations send reporters out to communities across Southern California to report on light showers. It's actually absurd lol. I get not being a fan of humidity, but water is what allows life to exist for fucks sake. For these people, arid or semi-arid environments are probably all they will ever choose to live in. The eastern half of the country is out of the question.

Having grown up in Ohio, where it rains all the time year round, I actually have the inverse feeling. It freaks me out how little it rains in LA. It feels inherently unsustainable. And every year around this time of year, I truly dread the fires and smokey skies. It's so unsettling to wake up to outside smelling like a campfire, or having days where the sky is just a hazy orange glow. I guess it comes down to the environment you are raised in, as native Californians don't seem to mind the fire season and extreme dryness.

[Chisouthside]

Originally Posted by edale

Lots of people in California/the west have a severe aversion to rain. It rains just a handful of times a year here in LA, yet you still hear incessant bitching from tons of people here whenever it does rain. That is something I find very odd. I get not being a fan of humidity, but water is what allows life to exist for fucks sake. For these people, arid or semi-arid environments are probably all they will every choose to live in.

Having grown up in Ohio, where it rains all the time year round, I actually have the inverse feeling. It freaks me out how little it rains in LA. It feels inherently unsustainable. And every year around this time of year, I truly dread the fires and smokey skies. It's so unsettling to wake up with outside smelling like a campfire, or having days where the sky is just an orange glow. I guess it's really about what you were raised with, as native Californians don't seem to mind the fire season and extreme dryness.

I think i went a whole 8 months once in San Jose without experiencing rain and it kinda freaked me out too. When it did finally rain the locals wouldnt shut up about it either. They react to rain like how midwesteners react to heavy blizzards.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by edale

Lots of people in California/the west have a severe aversion to rain. It rains just a handful of times a year here in LA, yet you still hear incessant bitching from tons of people here whenever it does rain. That is something I find very odd. They seriously act like Cincinnatians act about snow/ice. Collective freakout and distress. Local news stations send reporters out to communities across Southern California to report on light showers. It's actually absurd lol. I get not being a fan of humidity, but water is what allows life to exist for fucks sake. For these people, arid or semi-arid environments are probably all they will ever choose to live in. The eastern half of the country is out of the question.

Having grown up in Ohio, where it rains all the time year round, I actually have the inverse feeling. It freaks me out how little it rains in LA. It feels inherently unsustainable. And every year around this time of year, I truly dread the fires and smokey skies. It's so unsettling to wake up to outside smelling like a campfire, or having days where the sky is just a hazy orange glow. I guess it's really about what you were raised with, as native Californians don't seem to mind the fire season and extreme dryness.

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

I think i went a whole 8 months once in San Jose without experiencing rain and it kinda freaked me out too. When it did finally rain the locals wouldnt shut up about it either. They react to rain like how midwesteners react to heavy blizzards.

That seems odd. Most people I know are acutely aware of the issues surrounding the lack of rain, and wish there was more of it.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

People say there are mountains on the East Coast too, which is sort of true, but a different order of magnitude. And skiing on the west coast is way way better than the East Coast in terms of terrain, snow quality and weather.

Yeah, that difference of magnitude makes them easily accessible for outdoor recreation. You can actually get to them relatively easily and do something there, not just look at them.

Won't argue about skiing superiority in the West one bit, but for pretty much anything else, I generally prefer the eastern mountains overall. I like lush greenery, ample water, relative accessibility, easy-day-trip-ability. If I lived in the West near a national park, I would probably think differently.

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

It's about the density of people and the roughness of the topography. You don't have scenes like Tahoe or the Tetons or Yosemite or Glacier National Park out East.

Well no, of course not... because the Rocky Mountains are not located in the East. Conversely, the West doesn't have anything like the White, Green, Adirondack, Allegheny, Blue Ridge, or Great Smoky mountains... or any of the other green and lush sub ranges of the Appalachians. Two totally separate worlds, really.

I totally love the dramatic vistas out west, no doubt. I'm a huge fan of Glacier National Park, having done back country hiking and camping excursion there... amazing, stunning experience. But Glacier, Yellowstone, or Teton, etc.... it's not something you just decide to go do on a Saturday morning.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

from my three cousins who grew up in suburban chicagoland and moved out west as young adults (seattle, SLC, and portland), the big draw for all of them was apparently the abundance of outdoorsy shit out west.

none of them are huge "city" people, and those three cities all provide enough "city" for their tastes, while also providing great access to mountains and true wilderness, which is something that chicagoland, surrounded on all sides by endless cornfields, decidedly lacks.

a lot of young people just want to snow board, mountain bike, rock climb, whitewater raft, etc. as much as they possibly can. as long as there are also a few craft breweries and coffee shops nearby, they're good.

Yup. And not everyone who was born in and grew up in a big city (either inner city or suburbs) necessarily loves that living environment. You don't choose where you're born and where your parents decide to raise you.

Granted, most people tend to like what they're used to. So city people generally like the city, and country people tend to like the country.

Still, there are many exceptions to this rule and I don't know why we'd be surprised that some people would have different preferences. Regardless of where someone is originally from.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Crawford

You have much more dramatic topography in the Alps. Much steeper elevations, in a much more lush environment, and closer proximity to amenities.

No argument there, except for the isolation.

Having grown up in proximity to the Alps, I think this colors my thinking. Most of the western mountains are arid and the mostly treeless elevations are quite gradual. Nice, but generally not stunning, like the Dolemites or the Lauterbrunnen Valley. You can live in Munich or Milan and have fantastic urbanity plus amazing scenery in proximity, or somewhere like Innsbruck and go mountain hiking on lunch break.

Skiing, though, yeah. Best skiing on earth. But I don't think skiing, which is declining in popularity, is the primary driver. If my life revolved around skiing, I could definitely see living around Whistler or Alta, though.

There's plenty of dramatic topography, though it is not omnipresent (on the Sierras, other than Yosemite, all the best sights are on the Eastern Slope). The Canadian Rockies are prettier than the Rockies/Sierras (as are the ranges in Alaska). Which begs the question of why Anchorage isn't getting the same influx of Californians (the weather there isn't terrible, though it is rainy...).

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I totally love the dramatic vistas out west, no doubt. I'm a huge fan of Glacier National Park, having done back country hiking and camping excursion there... amazing, stunning experience. But Glacier, Yellowstone, or Teton, etc.... it's not something you just decide to go do on a Saturday morning.

Well if you live in Bozeman, for example, you sort of can .

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Well if you live in Bozeman, for example, you sort of can .

This is what a good friend of mine who bought a condo there a couple years ago keeps telling me...

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

ask Lake Tahoe and Paradise CA how "permanent" that beauty is

mass migration in the climate change era to areas most prone to wildfire risk and water scarcity, definitely a long term plan for success

Yeah, we should only build on brownfield sites and stay out of the woods.

Of course if we banned immigration and having babies, we wouldn't need to expand the current urban footprint at all.*

*Satire warning

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

begs the question of why Anchorage isn't getting the same influx of Californians (the weather there isn't terrible, though it is rainy...).

How's the surfing? Dunes for dune buggies? Can you grow citrus? Bougainvillea? Keep the windows open all year?

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

How's the surfing?

Better than Boise.

Dunes for dune buggies?

Kinda: https://www.google.com/maps/place/61...!4d-150.022237

Can you grow citrus? Bougainvillea?

Probably not.

Keep the windows open all year?

Eh...

[Crawford]

When can you keep the windows open in Bozeman? The week between fire season and the first deep blizzard?

The lack of humidity out West is nice, though.