New York just surpassed San Francisco as the most expensive rental market in the U.S.

[YSL]

New York City now holds the top slot as the most expensive apartment rental market in the nation.

The coronavirus pandemic caused a massive disruption to New York's real estate market early on, but demand has since turned around. Rents are not only rebounding but returning to pre-pandemic levels.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/new-...al-market.html

[the urban politician]

yay

[ChiSoxRox]

One would think the sheer scale of NYC would blunt the median rent enough to keep it out of the top spot.

NYC is an utter behemoth.

[dimondpark]

Can we make this permanent? Please?

[jbermingham123]

build build build build build

[SFBruin]

This probably has as much to do with SF's cratering rental market as it does with NYC's growth.

That said, SF may be rebounding, I don't know.

[SFBruin]

Speaking of which, why did SF get hit so hard by covid?

Its jobs weren't more movable to remote positions than those in other metros, were they?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

Speaking of which, why did SF get hit so hard by covid?

Its jobs weren't more movable to remote positions than those in other metros, were they?

High proportion of non-manufacturing tech jobs, at least to me, suggests that many of these jobs are easily transitionable to remote work.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

This probably has as much to do with SF's cratering rental market as it does with NYC's growth.

That said, SF may be rebounding, I don't know.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=248080

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

Speaking of which, why did SF get hit so hard by covid?

It's jobs weren't more movable to remote positions than those in other metros, were they?

Well, Manhattan was 'hit' harder than SF was as far as jobs if that's what youre talking about.

Change in Number of Jobs, Mar 2020-March 2021
-11.4% Orange, FL
-12.1% Clark, NV
-12.2% Atlantic, NJ
-12.6% San Francisco, CA
-13.4% Honolulu, HI
-14.7% Orleans, LA
-14.7% New York, NY

Notice these^ places all have lots of food server or hospitality jobs? That's the commonality. Manhattan and SF are eating out meccas, that's where job losses were concentrated in those 2 imo, at least this data suggests that.

Ironically, at the same time, Manhattan and SF retained their positions as the 1st and 2nd highest earning counties in the country, at least as far as average weekly pay.

Average Weekly Pay by County, $2,000+(Mar 2020-March 2021 change)
$3,967 New York, NY(+21.0%)
$3,721 San Francisco, CA(+33.9%)
$3,585 San Mateo, CA(+22.1%)
$3,505 Santa Clara, CA(+20.7%)
$2,545 Suffolk, MA(+8.6%)
$2,220 Fairfield, CT(+8.2%)
$2,165 Washington, DC(+8.6%)
$2,152 King, WA(+11.2%)
$2,128 Morris, NJ(+1.5%)
$2,107 Middlesex, MA(+9.3%)
$2,077 Arlington, VA(+3.0%)

So as far as jobs and pay, SF and Manhattan fared pretty much the same.

We also know that as I write this, NYC and SF lead the nation in the increase in people looking to rent there, so when you say how did SF get hit so hard, I am hard pressed to really find a way in which that actually happened?

Especially given SFs low covid death and infection rate relative to most of the country(thank God)

But i digress. Thank you for asking, this prompted me to seek to justify youre statement, and sadly I was not.

[dimondpark]

Which leads me to another point, if this is the average rent for the entire city of New York, than that's horrific. San Francisco is exceedingly wealthier on average than the whole of New York City, so I can understand if the amount is just for Manhattan, but if this is for all of NYC, yikes. That's not good at all.

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by YSL

New York City now holds the top slot as the most expensive apartment rental market in the nation.

The coronavirus pandemic caused a massive disruption to New York's real estate market early on, but demand has since turned around. Rents are not only rebounding but returning to pre-pandemic levels.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/new-...al-market.html

Well that sucks…..🤨🤦♂️ Good thing we locked in our lease for long term.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Which leads me to another point, if this is the average rent for the entire city of New York, than that's horrific. San Francisco is exceedingly wealthier on average than the whole of New York City, so I can understand if the amount is just for Manhattan, but if this is for all of NYC, yikes. That's not good at all.

I think NYC rents are skewed on both ends - lots of rent controlled apartments that are relatively cheaper and lots of very expensive apartments catering to high income people, who have done well despite the pandemic. Some may have left NYC, but the city is so big that it may not have had as much of an impact as a smaller city like SF.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I think NYC rents are skewed on both ends - lots of rent controlled apartments that are relatively cheaper and lots of very expensive apartments catering to high income people, who have done well despite the pandemic. Some may have left NYC, but the city is so big that it may not have had as much of an impact as a smaller city like SF.

There is a difference between rent controlled and rent stabilized. NYC doesn't have many rent controlled units left, which are those infamous $500/month units in a building where the market rate is $5,000/month. Those units were also inheritable. OTOH, something like half the units city are rent stabilized. Stabilized units track the market rate, but they reward tenants who stay in their units for a long period of time. When the apartment changes tenants, a stabilized unit will typically revert to the current market rate.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by Gordo

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=248080

Ah, good to see!

[Crawford]

There's no way that overall NYC rents are higher than overall SF rents.

But core NYC rents (Manhattan, Brownstone Brooklyn, Western Queens) are almost certainly higher than SF rents. Someone moving from Park Slope to Pacific Heights wouldn't pay more in rent.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There's no way that overall NYC rents are higher than overall SF rents.

But core NYC rents (Manhattan, Brownstone Brooklyn, Western Queens) are almost certainly higher than SF rents. Someone moving from Park Slope to Pacific Heights wouldn't pay more in rent.

It is possible that some of the crazy $20,000/mo Manhattan rents offset the Bronx and eastern Brooklyn, but even I doubt it. Especially since I am assuming these numbers include affordable housing components in new rental buildings. SF rents must have cratered.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Which leads me to another point, if this is the average rent for the entire city of New York, than that's horrific. San Francisco is exceedingly wealthier on average than the whole of New York City, so I can understand if the amount is just for Manhattan, but if this is for all of NYC, yikes. That's not good at all.

The poor in NYC do not pay market rate rents, so rental prices do not really effect them much, even though they are counted in income calculations for NYC.
About 44% of NYC rentals are rent stabilized, then we also have the projects and section 8, and some legacy rent controlled apartments, etc. About ~500K residents live in NYCHA (projects).

[Crawford]

Right, most NYC renters don't pay market rents. Most renters are on rent stabilized (not rent controlled), non-market rents.

And poor NYC renters are overwhelmingly living in non-market housing. NYCHA alone has enough units to house all of Boston.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There's no way that overall NYC rents are higher than overall SF rents.

But core NYC rents (Manhattan, Brownstone Brooklyn, Western Queens) are almost certainly higher than SF rents. Someone moving from Park Slope to Pacific Heights wouldn't pay more in rent.

It's not farfetched to me. NYC was always more expensive in price per square foot, since units in SF tend to be larger. Also, SF was never that far ahead of NYC overall. I think the city overtook NY as the most expensive market within the past five years.